What made classic wow better than current?

[Kantoro]

Absolutely nothing.

[Littleraven]

The only argument I could even make for classic being better is stuff meant more and it was all fresh. For a lot of people vanilla was their first real MMO experience so there was naturally nothing like it. Things felt new because most people hadn't seen anything like it before. Sure WoW was not the first MMO but it is the first one that sort of blew up and brought the genre into the mainstream (for better or worse).

Aside from that though like I said before. Things just meant more. WoW was always more casual friendly but even little things felt like rewards. I would never want to go back to that simply because I am at a different place in my life and just don't want to be bothered with grinding for hours just to do the most simple things but back then it felt great and parts of me do sort of miss it. But it is unquestionable that WoW is objectively better than it's ever been. Personal taste aside each expansion has gotten better in some way overall. Not everything is sugar and rainbows but the game is better than it was 12 years ago.

[Relapses]

WoW was hardly the first. It was more like the 10th.

It was so popular because it was casual, far more so than any other MMO on the market then. Add in the famous Warcraft IP and it had a guaranteed base. NO one expected it to be as popular as it got, though, even the dev's said they had expected only a few hundred thousand players.

I still remember my buddy talking about WoW before it was released.

He described it like this:

"It's an MMO and all MMOs are cancer."

He'd then pause, and continued,

"...but it's Blizzard and Blizzard doesn't know how to make a bad game."

To this day, it's about the best description of WoW I've ever heard.

[Bapestar]

I still remember my buddy talking about WoW before it was released.

He described it like this:

"It's an MMO and all MMOs are cancer."

He'd then pause, and continued,

"...but it's Blizzard and Blizzard doesn't know how to make a bad game."

To this day, it's about the best description of WoW I've ever heard.

That was when Blizzard had WC and Diablo under their belts. And SC.

[Relapses]

That was when Blizzard had WC and Diablo under their belts. And SC.

...are we pretending Overwatch wasn't a tremendous success or something? Because that's literally the only fully standalone IP Blizzard has released since.

[Bapestar]

...are we pretending Overwatch wasn't a tremendous success or something? Because that's literally the only fully standalone IP Blizzard has released since.

It is good, but I wouldn't put it above those 3 giants.

[kamuimac]

...are we pretending Overwatch wasn't a tremendous success or something? Because that's literally the only fully standalone IP Blizzard has released since.

you forgot about one small tiny game called hearthstone which brought them literal fuckton of $$$

[Relapses]

you forgot about one small tiny game called hearthstone which brought them literal fuckton of $$$

I don't know if I'd consider Hearthstone a fully standalone IP (since it borrows heavily from existing Blizzard IP), which is also why I didn't mention HotS.

[voidillusion]

I don't know if I'd consider Hearthstone a fully standalone IP (since it borrows heavily from existing Blizzard IP), which is also why I didn't mention HotS.

Your friends claim in my Pov still holds true, regardless of what i think about current wow is still a awesome game in many lvls.

The thing is that as you know a mmorpg is not something simple to design and mantain, chose what to keep and what to let go over the years, there are so many micro-games withing the game that it's crazy to even think about it. That's why i keep talking about design and philosophy changes, the game is still totally functional and intricate on so many levels, but along the way choices on what to let go and what to change made the previous iterations of the game better in the eyes of many.

So, not being a fanboy or a white knight, i must say that blizzards is still one of the best if not the best making top quality games.

[Relapses]

Your friends claim in my Pov still holds true, regardless of what i think about current wow is still a awesome game in many lvls.

The thing is that as you know a mmorpg is not something simple to design and mantain, chose what to keep and what to let go over the years, there are so many micro-games withing the game that it's crazy to even think about it. That's why i keep talking about design and philosophy changes, the game is still totally functional and intricate on so many levels, but along the way choices on what to let go and what to change made the previous iterations of the game better in the eyes of many.

So, not being a fanboy or a white knight, i must say that blizzards is still one of the best if not the best making top quality games.

I can respect that. (As an aside, I kind of hate that simply being pragmatic often gets you labeled a fanboy or white knight around here.) And honestly, I will admit that at the time that Blizzard was working on WoW the team was much different than it is now. Blizzard then felt tangible. Right now, Blizzard seems like an entity rather than a team. A large, still extremely talented and successful entity, but one which is more mechanical and less personable. And it's unfortunate that the sum of this entity's efforts on WoW have changed the direction and feel of the game in ways that have alienated what gravitated people towards it originally. I personally believe many of those changes were made with the longevity of the game in mind (who's to say it'd be around today if they didn't change it?), but as this thread proves, it's an extremely divisive topic and one which will likely never be fully settled or appreciated from either side of the argument.

[deviltoist]

i dont think --SNIP-- private server is better than retail

[Kuntantee]

It was a better RPG.

- - - Updated - - -

i dont think --SNIP-- private server is better than retail

Be careful. You can get banned for naming private servers.

[voidillusion]

I can respect that. (As an aside, I kind of hate that simply being pragmatic often gets you labeled a fanboy or white knight around here.) And honestly, I will admit that at the time that Blizzard was working on WoW the team was much different than it is now. Blizzard then felt tangible. Right now, Blizzard seems like an entity rather than a team. A large, still extremely talented and successful entity, but one which is more mechanical and less personable. And it's unfortunate that the sum of this entity's efforts on WoW have changed the direction and feel of the game in ways that have alienated what gravitated people towards it originally. I personally believe many of those changes were made with the longevity of the game in mind (who's to say it'd be around today if they didn't change it?), but as this thread proves, it's an extremely divisive topic and one which will likely never be fully settled or appreciated from either side of the argument.

The fanboy wasn't directed at you. This forum is full of fanboy and white knights that at the slightest exibition of dislike from someone will jump on them regardless. It's like a survival instinct, defending your adiction and all you know.

I also agree with you, the changes were made with the longevity of the game in mind, and because a different group of ppl plays now, 12 years is a lot of ppl, a whole new different generation with different mindsets desire and expect something different than i do.

This is why, and sorry to sound like a broken record, classic servers provided by blizzard would be the perfect solution for all and would allow blizzard to make with with a small fraction of the playerbase that feels "hurt" with them and above all preserv what was the biggest phenomenon gaming wise in the last 30(?) years reaching a size that nobody, not even the developers, expected.

[delus]

I'm doing some research and I'd like to hear your opinions guys and gals

My opinion is that vanilla sucked by comparison. And that is what makes the entire title of your thread misleading and biased because the opinion of people can be that vanilla is an inferior game.

[Eleccybubb]

The fanboy wasn't directed at you. This forum is full of fanboy and white knights that at the slightest exibition of dislike from someone will jump on them regardless. It's like a survival instinct, defending your adiction and all you know.

I also agree with you, the changes were made with the longevity of the game in mind, and because a different group of ppl plays now, 12 years is a lot of ppl, a whole new different generation with different mindsets desire and expect something different than i do.

This is why, and sorry to sound like a broken record, classic servers provided by blizzard would be the perfect solution for all and would allow blizzard to make with with a small fraction of the playerbase that feels "hurt" with them and above all preserv what was the biggest phenomenon gaming wise in the last 30(?) years reaching a size that nobody, not even the developers, expected.

Problem is with the bolded part it exists on both sides. If we go from the megathread you know my stance on Legacy. I want it but not fussed if they don't do it. Problem is toxicity exists from both the pro and anti legacy crowd.

[voidillusion]

Problem is with the bolded part it exists on both sides. If we go from the megathread you know my stance on Legacy. I want it but not fussed if they don't do it. Problem is toxicity exists from both the pro and anti legacy crowd.

Indeed it exists, but you have to agree that, perhaps because they are greater in numbers overall, the "pro-blizzard" crowd appears in all their splendor more often. Just look at this thread from the start with a unbiased mind and you'll see it.

[Varaben]

There was more of a sense of community and that was about it. That's what people crave.

From a gameplay perspective WoW is way better nowadays. Objectively I'd say.

OK, but "fun" gameplay is the opposite of objective. Difficulty is fun for me. Steamrolling mobs with no challenge, even at low levels might be "objectively" better gameplay to you, but it definitely isn't to me.

Another side of this is convenience. Gameplay is objectively more convenient nowadays (training, flight points everywhere, mounting earlier, etc.), but that doesn't make it objectively better. Blizzard has gone WAY to the one side of the spectrum with regards to convenience. Everything is just handed to you on a silver platter, which sounds great sometimes, but I think in the end it's worse for the game.

That sense of community you're talking about is a huge piece of why people play. You can't separate gameplay from community and say gameplay is objectively better. I think gameplay gets worse as community lines get severed (e.g. cross realm play, phasing).

[FelPlague]

as somone who has played vanilal, and is playing now, it has its ups and downs, a for example to do my training from 225-300 (all of it,.... not just "learn 300" also train to 300) i need to enter a dungeon... fileld with level 45 elite boss, and some 39-40 elites in pavcks of 4, so i need to join a group, or wait till im 60 and still possibly die to them, before i can train
and if you dont have all the mats you need then you will have to leave, get more and do it all again

[Varaben]

My opinion is that vanilla sucked by comparison. And that is what makes the entire title of your thread misleading and biased because the opinion of people can be that vanilla is an inferior game.

Couldn't it be read the other way? He's asking why people think vanilla was better than the current game. It sounds to me like he's implying it ISNT better. Like he's asking "Why play a 12 year old game when you can play the live version?"

[Vash The Stampede]

...are we pretending Overwatch wasn't a tremendous success or something? Because that's literally the only fully standalone IP Blizzard has released since.

Overwatch is going to fade away overtime. It's innovative in that unlike TF2 they have female characters and characters with ethnicity from around the globe. But that's when the good stops, and when the bad starts. You can't make custom maps like in TF2. No custom servers, no custom game modes, no custom sprays, and no movie maker. Basically they're like Apple in that you can have whatever you want, so long as chosen from their selection. If TF2 were to release female models, I could see OverWatch being completely forgotten.

But it's easy to see that a lot of game design philosophy from WoW and D3 have made it's way to OverWatch. People are creative and like to express their creativity and that includes games. I can't tell you how many times I rolled my eyes when I open a loot box to find more sprays. Just about every other online FPS allows you to use custom sprays.