Results are in - literally every class 100k dps higher on single target than hunters.

[markos82]

Yep, because having 1 spec as a shit tier is the same as having all 3 of your specs in the shit tier.

So what? I play as moonkin as MS i dont care if other specs are good. You played as MM hunter i bet, why didnt you played with spec that was doing less dps? Because you wanna top meters or you like the spec? I played as moonkin since they became a thing, never changed the spec or class.

Boo hoo a class with 4 specs and 1 is underperforming versus a class that has all its spec underperforming.

It was top on aoe and ST pn most fights before patch, and as i said above i dont care if other 3 specs are great, the spec I played ( moonkin ) was shit on aoe and average on ST compared to other classes.

What? You're joking right? Moonkins have been consistantly good and sought after, sometimes even flatout required (Blackhand Mythic). They haven't been bad at all in recent times.

Would you rather take moonkin or mage, monk, DH.... prio patch to some high M+? That was one fight where moonkin shined in WoD, yeah we did good with 4 set bonus in HFC but we were always in middle. Hunter not topping dps, omg the world will end.

[Kirbypro]

Reroll is another option, but some ppl don't enjoy the game if their favorite class is garbage. As bold as I may sound but I shouldn't have to reroll just bc the devs destroyed the mechanics of one's favorite class.

If it was any other expansion, reroll is a viable option as a good guild will be willing to regear their players and can do it very quickly.

However, several factors make rerolling a massive pain, at least for me:

1. ridiculous artifact power grind
2. legendary RNG
3. EN and ToV not providing some BiS items and have to get from mythic+
4. 3 Relics...

[Deavane]

So what? I play as moonkin as MS i dont care if other specs are good. You played as MM hunter i bet, why didnt you played with spec that was doing less dps? Because you wanna top meters or you like the spec? I played as moonkin since they became a thing, never changed the spec or class.



It was top on aoe and ST pn most fights before patch, and as i said above i dont care if other 3 specs are great, the spec I played ( moonkin ) was shit on aoe and average on ST compared to other classes.



Would you rather take moonkin or mage, monk, DH.... prio patch to some high M+? That was one fight where moonkin shined in WoD, yeah we did good with 4 set bonus in HFC but we were always in middle. Hunter not topping dps, omg the world will end.

Late to this conversation, but as a pure, hunter should have atleast one spec (and when I say one I mean MM or BM), that is represented among the top 12 specs. This expansion brings many difficulties that make swapping specs very difficult (especially for people who do not have time to work on a secondary spec). To invest 40+ traits into a weapon and suddenly have that spec be worse off (relative to other specs), is an issue. I can't go into Nighthold right now, and play BM as well I would MM. I simply don't have the same amount of traits, relics, or legendaries.

Note: And at this point, I'd be better of rerolling a new hunter than playing my own if I was going for legendaries for a new spec.

[Wildtree]

If it was any other expansion, reroll is a viable option as a good guild will be willing to regear their players and can do it very quickly.

However, several factors make rerolling a massive pain, at least for me:

1. ridiculous artifact power grind
2. legendary RNG
3. EN and ToV not providing some BiS items and have to get from mythic+
4. 3 Relics...

That bold part isn't so bad. Or say, it's only bad if you want to keep your current specs weap fully loaded.
Otherwise, just refund all the AP you invested, and put it into another specs weap. You're losing only the costs of the 54th (or the highest you've had) point.
But if you want to get a second weap fully charged, then yes, lots of endless grinding..

[markos82]

If it was any other expansion, reroll is a viable option as a good guild will be willing to regear their players and can do it very quickly.

However, several factors make rerolling a massive pain, at least for me:

1. ridiculous artifact power grind
2. legendary RNG
3. EN and ToV not providing some BiS items and have to get from mythic+
4. 3 Relics...

1. True but with 25 AK you can make 500k AP easy if you do just WQ and daily dungeon, in a week ( provided you do EN, ToV and few M+ ) you will be at 35 points or close. Yes alts cant have that high AK but with catch up system it should be much easier.

2. That sucks, but reroll doesnt mean you will get bis on alt and that you have bis on main. I have 3 legendary items and only one is viable for my spec, 2 others are in bank.

3. You dont need BiS items to get into a group nor to do high dps ( well trinkets you need ofc ). And new raid opens in <week you will have plenty of chances to get good items with higher ilvl + Tier bonus

4. Easy to get, each day there is at least 1 relic quest that can proc to 870 or more, you can get all 3 840 relics in less than a week if you do daily and few mythics with friends.

Gearing alts is EZ ( I admit that I only have 1 at 110 but i have 15 more on 100 ) if you have friends that are willing to help out. Most ppl i know in game geared freshly leveled 110 to 850-860 in less than a week.

[Hyxi]

Otherwise, just refund all the AP you invested, and put it into another specs weap.

Since when does it even work this way?

[markos82]

Late to this conversation, but as a pure, hunter should have atleast one spec (and when I say one I mean MM or BM), that is represented among the top 12 specs. This expansion brings many difficulties that make swapping specs very difficult (especially for people who do not have time to work on a secondary spec). To invest 40+ traits into a weapon and suddenly have that spec be worse off (relative to other specs), is an issue. I can't go into Nighthold right now, and play BM as well I would MM. I simply don't have the same amount of traits, relics, or legendaries.

Note: And at this point, I'd be better of rerolling a new hunter than playing my own if I was going for legendaries for a new spec.

That talk about pure dps class and hybrid is so old and boring. There is no reason why one class should outperform another just because all 3 specs are pure dps. And hunter is still viable and new patch is up for 3 days only now, there will be nerfs and fixes to classes before NH or shortly after it opens. It was the same with fuss about fire mage, last night i did +9 BRH with one and his average dps was +850k for entire run.
Ever since the gear between classes changes ( melee and dps ) gearing became so much easier, only problem is AP that when spent is only for one spec. Atm i'm at 47, 35, 35 and i play with all 3 spec ( moonkin, guardian and resto ) and i do only WQ that grant AP, daily dungeon, HC raid and 7 mythic + per week.

[Wildtree]

Since when does it even work this way?

Since the start..
http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-powe...nowledge-guide

Refunding Traits

You can also spend Artifact Power on refunding traits.
You can respec/refund your traits (wipe them and reassign them from scratch) at a cost.
Respeccing costs the same amount of Artifact Power as the next point in your Artifact Trait tree would cost.

[Madwolf]

I think the biggest question we need to answer, is how do we not only provide meaningful feed back to the Devs, but present it any a way that is inviting instead of hostile.

[Kerathul]

Since the start..
http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-powe...nowledge-guide

''Artifact Power is tied to each weapon you have separately. Therefore, if you have managed to acquire X amount of Artifact Power on one weapon, if you switch to your offspec weapon, this Artifact Power will not carry over (it will have a separate pool of Artifact Power).''

[Wildtree]

''Artifact Power is tied to each weapon you have separately. Therefore, if you have managed to acquire X amount of Artifact Power on one weapon, if you switch to your offspec weapon, this Artifact Power will not carry over (it will have a separate pool of Artifact Power).''

ah, yes.. overlooked that part.

[thunterman]

I reccomend you delete Skada/Recount. As soon as you stop caring about numbers the sooner you will enjoy playing the game. I'm a warloc, I've spent the entirety of this expansion on the very bottom of the DPS table, fortunately I enjoy playing destro lock, so IDGAF. It's nice that they are pretty decent now, but I'd play it even if it wasn't. They've already said buffs are incomming, no need to moan tbh. Your gonna be bottom for a week or two, I was bottom for months.

[Bags]

Yep, because having 1 spec as a shit tier is the same as having all 3 of your specs in the shit tier.

not sure how that's relevant? most people who play DPS moonkin aren't gonna re-roll to tank or w.e when their spec is shit

having your favorite DPS spec shit is just as bad as having all of your DPS specs be shit

Boo hoo a class with 4 specs and 1 is underperforming versus a class that has all its spec underperforming.

how is the number of un performing specs per class relevant? if boomkin is garbage he's hardly about to go re-roll feral because I assume he'd be playing feral if he enjoyed it


if they completely gutted my main (ww) it doesn't matter if I can re-roll MW or BRM because my raid doesn't need heals/tank they need DPS, and if I wanted to play those specs I already would be doing so

[Dobby3939]

having your favorite DPS spec shit is just as bad as having all of your DPS specs be shit

Gonna have to disagree with you on that pretty wholeheartedly. Makes sense coming from someone who plays a hybrid. You realize that what if you just said is true, having a single hunter spec be low DPS is just as bad as the entire class not being viable. The reason I chose a hunter was b/c I always assumed one of our specs always would be, well until now :P

[Scrotch]

yeah, the amount of self healing we have and tankiness should mean we are abit lower on the list
as we are the tankiest casters

Except, you know, almost every single dps class has a special advantage or niche they provide, and dps effectiveness in real game conditions should not be punished for having them.

Death Knight - Death Grip has always been a powerful raid tool, also AMS for magic mechanic soaking
Druid - Innervate, able to break roots at will, and side note- druid healers are the mobile healers (and shouldn't be the lowest healer because of it)
Hunter - Mobility and soaking raid mechanics with turtle
Mage - frost still has very high mobility, ice block total immunity, blink also breaks roots and stuns, and the hidden passive of dev attention (kidding, but kinda not)
Monk - mobility king of melee, defensive also does a lot of damage as a bonus
Paladin - Total immunity cooldown that procs automatically if talented and doesnt reduce or stop dps at all. also greater blessing of wisdom on healers for bonus mana and blessing of protection for a shared physical immunity that also has historically been a powerful tool
Priest - not super familiar with the class, and can't think of a unique thing they do. Might be an exception
Rogue - the melee king of mechanic soaking via cheat death, low CD on cloak, and feint. also has slows and stuns for add management
Shaman - purge and a bonus self battle rez, can talent into a raid wide speed boost
Warlock - tankiness, high self healing, health stones, and the portal thing
Warrior - raid wide health boost cooldown

[markos82]

Gonna have to disagree with you on that pretty wholeheartedly.

You can disagree all you want but its true, my favorite spec was moonkin, i played it for more than 9 years and I would never consider playing any other dps spec ( or class )....

[TOM_RUS]

Hunter - Mobility

LOL WHAT?


10 chars

[Shartay]

Except, you know, almost every single dps class has a special advantage or niche they provide, and dps effectiveness in real game conditions should not be punished for having them.

Death Knight - Death Grip has always been a powerful raid tool, also AMS for magic mechanic soaking
Druid - Innervate, able to break roots at will, and side note- druid healers are the mobile healers (and shouldn't be the lowest healer because of it)
Hunter - Mobility and soaking raid mechanics with turtle
Mage - frost still has very high mobility, ice block total immunity, blink also breaks roots and stuns, and the hidden passive of dev attention (kidding, but kinda not)
Monk - mobility king of melee, defensive also does a lot of damage as a bonus
Paladin - Total immunity cooldown that procs automatically if talented and doesnt reduce or stop dps at all. also greater blessing of wisdom on healers for bonus mana and blessing of protection for a shared physical immunity that also has historically been a powerful tool
Priest - not super familiar with the class, and can't think of a unique thing they do. Might be an exception
Rogue - the melee king of mechanic soaking via cheat death, low CD on cloak, and feint. also has slows and stuns for add management
Shaman - purge and a bonus self battle rez, can talent into a raid wide speed boost
Warlock - tankiness, high self healing, health stones, and the portal thing
Warrior - raid wide health boost cooldown

LOL, what a troll.

[Khrux]

Since the start..
http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-powe...nowledge-guide

Just want to post a warning here to prevent people fucking themselves over.

This DOES NOT allow you to put your AP into another weapon, this only resets your traits while keeping the AP locked to that weapon. It was added to allow you to "respec" your existing weapon in case you took a bad path through your traits and wanted to go a different direction.

The cost is equal to the value of your next trait in the weapon, please don't spend massive amounts of AP to respec to another weapon. That is not possible!

[Scrotch]

LOL WHAT?


10 chars

I mean, being able to move while performing half of your rotations IS still pretty mobile compared to other ranged specs. Please feel free to explain, but is the new marks rotation not in fact marked/windburst > 3 aimed shots (the only immobile portion) > a bunch of arcane shots