President Obama's Farewell Speech

[SandmanActual]

Its also a fantasy since marriage is a clear, established, mechanism in our society in both terms of laws, insurance, ect.

So we'll just excuse that it's built upon racism and segregation because it's slightly inconvenient otherwise, right?

This is exactly why I'll never marry another man. When it comes to endorsing segregation, a marriage license comes pretty damn close.

That's certainly one way to try to turn a clear victory into a loss.

Not sure what you mean. Sorry.

[Lenonis]

So we'll just excuse that it's built upon racism and segregation because it's slightly inconvenient otherwise, right?

This is exactly why I'll never marry another man. When it comes to endorsing segregation, a marriage license comes pretty damn close.

That's your right. Advocating that equality shouldn't be given to gays because you have an issue with marriage isn't.

Time to get off your soapbox and realize that as long as the legal institution of marriage has rights attached to it that institution should be given without prejudice.

[A dot Ham]

I would've voted for him if he could've ran for a third term, stupid rules.

Well those rules aren't SO stupid. There are very good reasons for keeping Presidents for 2 terms.

That being said I'd be willing to risk the potential risks involved in such an action if given the option to vote him in for a three-peat.

[Spectral]

When it comes to endorsing segregation, a marriage license comes pretty damn close.

I'm in an interracial marriage; the quoted point is self-refuting in the context of the modern world.

[Deleted]

this man came closer than anyone to plunging the world into WW3. he also is responsible for deaths of hundreds of thounsads of innnocent families in the middle east. his orders allowed for 6 bombs a day in 2016 alone to be dropped in areas where innocent women and children died because of it.


Trump must now work to undo Obamas terrible work and try to unite the USA and world once again.

[Lenonis]

Trump must now work to undo Obamas terrible work and try to unite the USA and world once again.

Hoping Trump is going to do less with the military is like hoping the GOP will raise taxes on the rich.

[Karon]

His average approval rating during his term was 48%, and roughly 52-53 right now depending on where you look. Are you splitting hairs, or did you assume his approval ratings were in the ~70s?

How many people have voted, how many are allowed to vote, how many live in the US. Then we can talk about "50% of the population"
Because it's less than 25%.

[SandmanActual]

That's your right. Advocating that equality shouldn't be given to gays because you have an issue with marriage isn't.

Time to get off your soapbox and realize that as long as the legal institution of marriage has rights attached to it that institution should be given without prejudice.

Not much of a soapbox. I couldn't care less if it swings either way. If you followed the thread, you'd have seen that my argument stems from statists giving too much credit and credence to the POTUS.

I've clearly outlined that if you believe the POTUS is directly responsible for any impact on gay marriage, then you're a deluded fool. Obama was in the right place at the right time-- Oh, you just so happened to be president when the entire nation decided to finally modernize and step into the 21st century? Ohhhh good for you, Barrack! You're such a cool hip president!

By the way, don't twist my words with your "you think equality shouldn't be given to gays" shtick. Don't forget you're talking to a gay. Spare me the cry-bully tactics.

It's a bad argument its own arguer undermines even as he makes it.

Again, you're not being clear. SAY EXACTLY WHAT ISSUE YOU HAVE WITH THE ARGUMENT. It sounds like you're choosing semantics as your method to discredit the article. Just because you disagree with the method the writer chooses to present the facts, doesn't disprove those facts in any way. Unfortunately, he is still presenting history as it is. Like it or not, the marriage license stems from racism and segregation, and I challenge you to refute that.

I'm in an interracial marriage; the quoted point is self-refuting in the context of the modern world.

Your logical fallacy is semantics. Congratulations that you exist in an interracial marriage, but that doesn't refute the point that your marriage license stems from a time when whites were encouraged BY THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT TO EXCLUSIVELY MARRY OTHER WHITES. It's really not a hard concept to understand. I know it's uncomfortable and hard to believe, but it's the truth. The moment you realize that big government has been the primary cause of most of the issues we face today (e.g. War on Drugs, 222+ years of Global Conflict, $18 trillion national debt etc.) is the moment they lose the grip that they have over us. All I'm asking if that you stop giving so much credit to government and start giving more credit to yourselves. Fuck Trump. Fuck Obama. WE are what will determine the next four, eight, twelve and sixteen years of this country.

[Elegiac]

Your logical fallacy is semantics. Congratulations that you exist in an interracial marriage, but that doesn't refute the point that your marriage license stems from a time when whites were encouraged BY THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT TO EXCLUSIVELY MARRY OTHER WHITES. It's really not a hard concept to understand. I know it's uncomfortable and hard to believe, but it's the truth. The moment you realize that big government has been the primary cause of most of the issues we face today (e.g. War on Drugs, 222+ years of Global Conflict, $18 trillion national debt etc.) is the moment they lose the grip that they have over us. All I'm asking if that you stop giving so much credit to government and start giving more credit to yourselves. Fuck Trump. Fuck Obama. WE are what will determine the next four, eight, twelve and sixteen years of this country.

Marriage having racist or sexist connotations historically is irrelevant for the same reason that many of the early birth control advocates being eugenicists is irrelevant because, as Spectral said, within the modern context it is -not- a mechanism of either racism or misogyny. For the most part.

Next time, instead of actually typing all of this drivel out you can just go ahead and link a video of 'Threw It On the Ground' - it carries about the same meaning.

[SandmanActual]

Marriage having racist or sexist connotations historically is irrelevant for the same reason that many of the early birth control advocates being eugenicists is irrelevant because, as Spectral said, within the modern context it is -not- a mechanism of either racism or misogyny. For the most part.

Next time, instead of actually typing all of this drivel out you can just go ahead and link a video of 'Threw It On the Ground' - it carries about the same meaning.

"Because Spectral said! Because Spectral said! Because HE said, then it MUST be true!"

Nope! Sorry! Provide the audience with a FACTUAL refutation as to why the history of the marriage license cannot be directly connected to segregation/racism. Go ahead. I'm waiting.

Also, it was a very adorable attempt to undermine my argument by using millennial references to appear edgy and hip! (i.e. "Threw it on the Ground"! Remember how funny that YouTube video was? Remember Gangnam Style?! It sure is fun being a hip 20 something year-old millennial!)

I'm being clear, but not specific. There is a difference.

Regardless, I'm not outlining my objection to the argument because the thought of doing so makes my brain yell, "Ugh." It's not an interesting issue and the argument is obviously bad, so spending three paragraphs explaining how it's bad sounds really not fun. I will say this though: Just because an argument is built on true bits of trivia doesn't mean it's a good argument. The other component of an argument is reasoning and if that sucks, no number of true pieces of information will salvage that argument.

Also, the way in which you're invoking "semantics" makes it sound like you don't know what it means and think it's just a way to discredit what people say.

Just because it is built on "trivia" doesn't make it trivial. I'm willing to bet you'd piss your panties before ever publicly stating that segregation is "trivial". Try again though.

I adore that you completely skim over the cold hard truth that the marriage license is built on segregation and racism. If I was in your shoes, I would too. It's a very tough point to refute. Until you can disprove that, you really don't have an argument. At this point, all you're doing is pretending that it's not a big deal. In which case, I would hope you'd maintain the same consistency towards the Confederate flag. After all... it's just a piece of fabric, right? It's built on racism and segregation, but it's just a piece of fabric today, right?

The best part about all this is that you folks continually choose to ignore the core point of my message: Big government is the source of most of our country's issues, and thus we should stop worshiping politicians (specifically the POTUS) when they occasionally DO THEIR FUCKING JOB RIGHT. Oh they got it right once? And we're throwing a parade for them now? Come on, guys. Grow up.

[SandmanActual]

You picked a random word out of my post to object to something I never so much as implied. This is a complete waste of my time.

I'm being clear, but not specific. There is a difference.

Regardless, I'm not outlining my objection to the argument because the thought of doing so makes my brain yell, "Ugh." It's not an interesting issue and the argument is obviously bad, so spending three paragraphs explaining how it's bad sounds really not fun. I will say this though: Just because an argument is built on true bits of trivia doesn't mean it's a good argument. The other component of an argument is reasoning and if that sucks, no number of true pieces of information will salvage that argument.

Also, the way in which you're invoking "semantics" makes it sound like you don't know what it means and think it's just a way to discredit what people say.

Nah that was a good chunk of your "argument". That was a good attempt at deflecting your internalized racism though.

Again, it's not "true bits of trivia" as you so adorably put it. It's simply fucking fact, buckeroo. It's pretty disgusting that you would trivialize such a violently racist history simply because it doesn't fit your narrative. Truly shameful.

The marriage license stems from a RACIST AGENDA. PROVE THAT WRONG.

I have yet to see you refute that.

[Lenonis]

I've clearly outlined that if you believe the POTUS is directly responsible for any impact on gay marriage, then you're a deluded fool.

This is going out of the way to delegitimize Obama's role in it, from the SCOTUS picks to directing the DoJ to not defend it. Not to mention the series of steps he took to give rights to federal contractors, employees, and the military.

Your whole stance of "marriage before I was born was racist therefore no one in the modern era should get married" is super weird.

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history of the marriage license cannot be directly connected to segregation/racism. Go ahead. I'm waiting.

Since historical context rules modern context in your book I assume you are not a raging hypocrite and do not wear anything made of cotton, or any other product made possible by the slave industry?

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Come on, guys. Grow up.

Cry bully tactics indeed.

[Deleted]

*Cutting the national deficit in more than half.

The numbers don't add up.

[Lenonis]

The numbers don't add up.

You might want to look at your graph again. Especially the year bar.

Then go ask forgiveness for your sins.

Here is a better, yet still incomplete graph.

[Deleted]

For someone who doesn't follow everyday US politics much, what's his legacy apart from Obamacare?

This is one accomplishment.

[alexkeren]

Well, he was the President when we got Bin Laden, that's one thing that will be a part of his legacy. I find it appalling that the Right Wing never gave him any credit for this.

Considering it was a standing order from Bush to bring Bin Laden to justice, had Obama tried to say not to execute the mission once Bin Laden was found it would have been done regardless.

[Tijuana]

*Cutting the national deficit in more than half.
*Deporting more illegals than any other president in history
*Pardoning more non-violent drug offenders than any other president in history.
*Took over during the greatest recession since the great depression and turned market hemorrhaging jobs at the rate of millions per year and turned it into 75 consecutive months of job growth which is a record not seen since the 1930's. (Didn't say they were great jobs).

Then the negatives of his legacy.
*Least Transparent president in history.
*Attacked whistleblowers and their protections.
*Helped Clinton to cheat in the primaries against Sanders and threw one of the easiest elections in history against the most disliked president in history in the process potentially (Honestly a near certainty at this point) causing MASSIVE damage in the wake.

Just to name some.

*added 45% of the total debt
*allowed more in, than any president in history
*I agree with the pardons but, some of them had charges including guns so your point is a bit soft
*while job growth sort of kind of happened eventually, he was still the only president to never grow the economy by 3% in a single year

[Lenonis]

This is one accomplishment.

Who'd have thought home ownership rates would decline after a housing market crash?? That's so...weird!

[Tijuana]

Who'd have thought home ownership rates would decline after a housing market crash?? That's so...weird!

The whole housing bubble/recession thing make it hard to be objective about Obama's numbers. You have to look at them very carefully if you want to be fair. Since most people have NO desire to be fair, there is endless statistical shenanigans that can and do occur. My personal favorite spin stat, is the one that says Obama increased spending at the lowest rate since Eisenhower. You should see the hoops it takes to make that true.

[Lenonis]

*added 45% of the total debt

You just can't lay that on Obama with any semblance of honesty. A vast majority of that debt came from Bush program and the increase in social spending from the economic crash. When the deficit goes down every year he's in office you can't paint him as a president who is overspending with any legitimacy.

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The whole housing bubble/recession thing make it hard to be objective about Obama's numbers.

In what way?

My personal favorite spin stat, is the one that says Obama increased spending at the lowest rate since Eisenhower. You should see the hoops it takes to make that true.

I'm not sure how you can claim Obama increased spending at all when the deficit went down every year he was in office.