[PROT] my gripes with 7.1.5 changes

[kaganpwnz]

here are some of my problems i have with devastator, trying to keep this constructive as possible.

• i miss my hp
  losing indom really makes me not want to play, was approaching 5.5mil hp and man it felt good, only to have to switch talents , now im in the 4.3mil range, not sure if this is how blizz wants us to choose talents but either way it feels bad.
  
• Rotation
  you are either sitting there waiting for a proc, or you have too many
  
• thunderclapping vs single target
  feels awkward, dont like it
  
• no off GCD offensive spell. first time since like vanilla?
  
• lack of synergy between talents/legendaries/skills
  everything feels very static, with very few abilities/talents actually interacting with one another.
  
• crit is even less desirable
  before at least you could stack 15-20% crit and shatter the bones and have close to 50% crit rate with shield slam, now the relic choice and stat are useless.
  
• shield slam
  feels very weak and smashing it 2 or 3 times in a row it loses its "fantasy" building up to a huge slam in 7.1 "felt" good this is of course my opinion
  

so i am guessing the reasoning behind the removal of ultimatum/focused rage, is because there was only 1 build, and they wanted to diversify protection. except for the failed miserably, now it is even more cookie cutter with 1 build being so far ahead of the rest that its the only choice. the fixes seem rushed and very unpolished leaving me doing more damage and more healing but effectively leaving my warrior very undesirable to play.

[giovannym]

I feel the same way too. To me personally it feels like they've distracted us with very high dps (devastator) but does it offset all the nerfs? for me, i'm still not happy. My hp, the HR nerf, SW nerf, Revenge not off the GC, and autoattacking (a warrior is supposed to be pushing forward not autoattacking imo), thunderclap ST feels awkward. I feel like it's an overall nerf to our surv but people are just on a dps high, since we've never had such high dps as prot in this expansion. I was thinking last night tanking mythic+s, so this is what paladins might feel like lol.

[Valech]

[*]i miss my hp

losing indom really makes me not want to play, was approaching 5.5mil hp and man it felt good, only to have to switch talents , now im in the 4.3mil range, not sure if this is how blizz wants us to choose talents but either way it feels bad.

Indom is still viable. The difference is not as huge as some players make it out to be. With approaching 5.5mil hp, I assume you are around ilvl 894, meaning that you raid progress oriented. Even there I´d opt for Indom. I for my part will, simply for the reason, that I do not have enough time to get used to the traffic light playstyle devestator requires. Maybe on farm or Mythic+.

[*] Rotation

you are either sitting there waiting for a proc, or you have too many

Agree.

[*] thunderclapping vs single target

feels awkward, dont like it

Opinion. I like it. A button more to use during st. Also, I like the thought of stomping on the ground so hard, that it calls down lightning.

[*] no off GCD offensive spell. first time since like vanilla?

I´d like to remind you, that the original version of heroic strike dealt extra damage on your next autoswing.

[*] lack of synergy between talents/legendaries/skills

everything feels very static, with very few abilities/talents actually interacting with one another.

I feel like you are wrong here. belt has good syngergy with booming voice. kakushan´s is great for everything. AM works good with booming voice. vengeance changes the entire playstyle, giving abilities like revenge a survivability component.

[*] crit is even less desirable

before at least you could stack 15-20% crit and shatter the bones and have close to 50% crit rate with shield slam, now the relic choice and stat are useless.

Yeah, sadly.

[*] shield slam
feels very weak and smashing it 2 or 3 times in a row it loses its "fantasy" building up to a huge slam in 7.1 "felt" good this is of course my opinion

Yeah, I liked my 1.4mil shieldslams, too. Then again, pulling over a mil dps on huge trash pulls for a short amount of time is orgasmic as well.

[Novoal7]

With the amount of complaint threads between Blizzard's official forums and here, you'd think you could have just posted your two cents in one of those threads.

But no.

[smaktat]

here are some of my problems i have with devastator, trying to keep this constructive as possible.

• i miss my hp
  losing indom really makes me not want to play, was approaching 5.5mil hp and man it felt good, only to have to switch talents , now im in the 4.3mil range, not sure if this is how blizz wants us to choose talents but either way it feels bad.
  
• Rotation
  you are either sitting there waiting for a proc, or you have too many
  
• thunderclapping vs single target
  feels awkward, dont like it
  
• no off GCD offensive spell. first time since like vanilla?
  
• lack of synergy between talents/legendaries/skills
  everything feels very static, with very few abilities/talents actually interacting with one another.
  
• crit is even less desirable
  before at least you could stack 15-20% crit and shatter the bones and have close to 50% crit rate with shield slam, now the relic choice and stat are useless.
  
• shield slam
  feels very weak and smashing it 2 or 3 times in a row it loses its "fantasy" building up to a huge slam in 7.1 "felt" good this is of course my opinion
  

so i am guessing the reasoning behind the removal of ultimatum/focused rage, is because there was only 1 build, and they wanted to diversify protection. except for the failed miserably, now it is even more cookie cutter with 1 build being so far ahead of the rest that its the only choice. the fixes seem rushed and very unpolished leaving me doing more damage and more healing but effectively leaving my warrior very undesirable to play.

Ok so what do you like about 7.1.5? Forums are all negativity.

[kaganpwnz]

Ok so what do you like about 7.1.5? Forums are all negativity.

the only + from my perspective is the DPS increase. everything else feels very awkward, i went from enjoying my warrior tank to feeling very locked into something i dont like, and i cannot change without knowingly hurting my raid/m+group.

[Pua]

I'm comfortable with some of the changes, while others have me scratching my head.

Pro: The loss of Focused Rage.

It was awkward. You don't want to hold off Shield Slam as your primary rage generator, so having a stacking buff that you couldn't max out without consistently awkward priorities just didn't work. Having an activation would have provided more control, but it'd have been horribly clunky. I'm glad it's gone.

Con: Devastator.

Honestly, it just makes me sad. It's frustratingly poor design to make a simpler rotation (as in, taking out a button), and then buff it to silliness in order to coerce people into taking it. To be clear - I've no problem with the talent, but it needs nerfed so that it fills its actual niche; namely, freeing up GCDs for players that want that style.

Pro: The change to Revenge.

Took me a bit to get used to, until I moved Revenge into my old Heroic Strike keybind and suddenly it felt like a bigger, badder version of daddy had just come home. The Ultimatum proc has pretty much been retained, and once you understand that Revenge is now your DPS rage spender, it makes more sense. I like it.

Con: Crackling Thunder.

Seriously? Seriously? The single-worst talent in the game needed removed, not nerfed. Icy Veins makes me laugh because it argues that the talent is somehow worthwhile, when Bounding Stride is better than it in every way, under every circumstance, within every build. Just one more time - seriously?

Suggestions:

Revenge could probably be removed from the GCD in order to preserve the off-GCD rage-spender warriors have had since pretty much their inception. That being said, it may end up meaning that you're endlessly spamming Revenge in better avoidance gear and/or with trash packs. Could Heroic Strike be brought back without otherwise cluttering the rotation? I'm not sure it can. Devastator needs nerfed in both damage and effect because it's far too strong for its intended role; Demon Blades is a perfectly good example of this type of talent done well.

Crackling Thunder, fuck me, get rid of it. It's terrible. I also still think Impending Victory needs something done about it in order to make it more user-friendly. Rename it Blood Craze and remove the target requirement and it'd probably see a lot more use.

As a general point, the spec feels as if it largely works properly... But just lacks panache. I've been playing a Protection warrior since early Outland, and it's never been better, more coherent and more fun than it was during Wrath. Its sadly been on a decline since then and, while Legion makes improvements to Warlords, I just don't think the designers really buy the fantasy they've tried to put into it. Daft things like Thunderclap being part of the single-target rotation doesn't help and effectively makes both single-target and AoE rotations more similar than they need to be (and, thus, removing depth).

It seems terribly lukewarm.

Just my two pence.

[Leih]

My main problem is the loss of the cool FR shoulder barge charge/overpower animation no longer being a thing when you shield slam. The variety in the two different animations depending on whether you had FR up or not was nice.

[Arbiter]

My main problem is the loss of the cool FR shoulder barge charge/overpower animation no longer being a thing when you shield slam. The variety in the two different animations depending on whether you had FR up or not was nice.

???

I can't say I ever noticed this. Any video of an example so that I can find a single reason to why losing FR was a negative thing.

Con: Crackling Thunder.

Seriously? Seriously? The single-worst talent in the game needed removed, not nerfed. Icy Veins makes me laugh because it argues that the talent is somehow worthwhile, when Bounding Stride is better than it in every way, under every circumstance, within every build. Just one more time - seriously?

I don't know man that's kind of your opinion. All 3 talents on that row are pretty situational. Double the range on Thunderclap made for an easy time picking up mobs that either spawn or aggro and helped with damage on spread out mobs. It definitely wasn't OP or anything though and definitely didn't need a nerf.

[Pua]

I don't know man that's kind of your opinion. All 3 talents on that row are pretty situational. Double the range on Thunderclap made for an easy time picking up mobs that either spawn or aggro and helped with damage on spread out mobs. It definitely wasn't OP or anything though and definitely didn't need a nerf.

Well, yeah, it's my opinion - but let me put it like this:

Have you ever felt that you had problems picking up spread out mobs, and that a bit more range on Thunderclap would solve it?

Neither have I.

[Leih]

???

I can't say I ever noticed this. Any video of an example so that I can find a single reason to why losing FR was a negative thing.

Certainly didn't record it, but when you had FR up SS had the same animation as with Charge/Overpower/Pummel... the shoulder barge style animation they added with Legion.

That's gone now, so it's always just the standard shield swing.

[Arbiter]

Well, yeah, it's my opinion - but let me put it like this:

Have you ever felt that you had problems picking up spread out mobs, and that a bit more range on Thunderclap would solve it?

Neither have I.

Sure. I use it quite a bit in 5mans because there isn't much reason for me to need to be leaping just slightly more often in most cases. It's particularly useful for when someone accidentally aggros a pack of mobs. Thunderclap has a shorter CD than Heroic Leap and with the talent a much bigger radius so I don't have to move near as much to pick them all up at once. And I still have Heroic Leap to use if needed. I'll probably use it less with the nerf, but it's not like a 16 yard thunderclap was ever a bad thing if you didn't have much use for the other two talents.

Just because you haven't used it doesn't mean no one else did. I personally swapped depending on what I felt I needed at the time. And I know for a fact I'm not the only one.

- - - Updated - - -

Certainly didn't record it, but when you had FR up SS had the same animation as with Charge/Overpower/Pummel... the shoulder barge style animation they added with Legion.

That's gone now, so it's always just the standard shield swing.

Shame. I like the new Charge animation so I'm sure it was sweet. Other than that I can't imagine any negative thing to say about FR getting removed though lol.

[Delmore]

Revenge could probably be removed from the GCD in order to preserve the off-GCD rage-spender warriors have had since pretty much their inception.

http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Revenge

Thats the version I remember!

[Pua]

Just because you haven't used it doesn't mean no one else did. I personally swapped depending on what I felt I needed at the time. And I know for a fact I'm not the only one.

I never said otherwise; merely that anytime I think of taking that talent, I black out. It's that bad.

http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Revenge

Thats the version I remember!

Haha, aye.

I think my favourite ever use of Revenge was the Arms use of it via Unrelenting Assault in Wrath. Sadly, we don't have class designers with anything like the level of talent or sophistication we had then, so expectation that something so nuanced would return is tragically misplaced.

[Muxtar]

I don't know what all this whine is about. Warriors got:
- their dps buffed
- thei survivability buffed (more rage > more IP > more avoidance; more SS > longer SB uptime > more avoidance)

Yea, rotation became a bit more tedious than it was, but still, spamming Devastate as a filler wasn't that much fun either tbh. You just need to play this new rotation smart, and you will bath in rage and dps increase. There are definitely more pros than cons.

[MooMooAkai]

I don't know what all this whine is about. Warriors got:
- their dps buffed
- thei survivability buffed (more rage > more IP > more avoidance; more SS > longer SB uptime > more avoidance)

Yea, rotation became a bit more tedious than it was, but still, spamming Devastate as a filler wasn't that much fun either tbh. You just need to play this new rotation smart, and you will bath in rage and dps increase. There are definitely more pros than cons.

Yea it's balanced that's not the issue. Honestly too much damage with Devastator

Crackling thunder is a joke when they said they wanted talent diversity

Rage is a joke. I can't get rid of it. The tier set for Nighthold looks worthless now

All buttons doing about the same damage what even is this?

Lots of empty global waiting for procs and other times swimmin in shield slams wishing they could stack charges

- - - Updated - - -

Also why isn't revenge off the gcd with this build? Why does it still have a cool down?

[Stallion]

I think my favourite ever use of Revenge was the Arms use of it via Unrelenting Assault in Wrath.

Wasn't that Overpower only? At least that's what wowhead says.

[Jastall]

I don't mind Devastator. Spamming Devastate wasn't exactly compelling gameplay. I do think the procs could be normalized a bit. Sometimes SS goes its entire cooldown without proccing, other times I get 3-4 procs in a BC and shield block window. Which is awesome, don't get wrong, but a bit uneven.

Thunger Clap being the single target filler is a bit odd, granted.

[Muxtar]

Thunger Clap being the single target filler is a bit odd, granted.

Agreed. But that happens not that often, GCD usually ends without the need to press TC. Revenge and SS procs do well.

[mac9891]

Warriors did not get a survivabilty buff they got a sizable nerf. And their single target did not get buffed that much.