President Obama's Farewell Speech

[Tijuana]

You just can't lay that on Obama with any semblance of honesty. A vast majority of that debt came from Bush program and the increase in social spending from the economic crash. When the deficit goes down every year he's in office you can't paint him as a president who is overspending with any legitimacy.

I mean, if we want to actually fair, presidents have fuck all to do with budgets, taxes, and spending. The House is where all spending and taxation bills originate, per the Constitution.

But as for blaming it on Bush, or the congress under Bush, that is just factually incorrect. If you want to go through the minutia of the numbers, we can. But the key points are the initial funding for the TARP program was emergency spending under Bush, in a year that was slated to have a sub $200 billion deficit. This money was all paid back, then loaned again, then paid back but, the final repayments fall under Obama's budget years. In addition, since 2009 was a Bush budget year, yet an Obama in office year, the near trillion dollar stimulus bill, that Bush did not sign in to law, is often attributed to him, instead of Obama. That year was slated to have a similar deficit as 2008 originally was.

Bush was on course for approaching budget balance in the next few years. Saying Obama was some great miser with the public purse could not be more factually incorrect.

[Lenonis]

I mean, if we want to actually fair, presidents have fuck all to do with budgets, taxes, and spending. The House is where all spending and taxation bills originate, per the Constitution.

I actually agree with that, but have pretty much given up on it as a point as everyone seems to look at the president as responsible for everything.

But as for blaming it on Bush, or the congress under Bush, that is just factually incorrect.

I'm not talking about TARP. I'm talking about Medicare part D expansion, two unfunded wars that Obama put on the books as one of his first actions, and the Bush Tax Cuts. Those three things alone pretty much wrecked the budget. Plus, as I mentioned before, the increase in social spending due to a crashed economy.

The question I have for people (which you seem to be one) that think Obama is actually responsible for all the debt is this -- what programs that Obama put into place drove that debt?

[Tijuana]

You just can't lay that on Obama with any semblance of honesty. A vast majority of that debt came from Bush program and the increase in social spending from the economic crash. When the deficit goes down every year he's in office you can't paint him as a president who is overspending with any legitimacy.

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In what way?

I'm not sure how you can claim Obama increased spending at all when the deficit went down every year he was in office.

His starting point was an economy in free fall. He didn't cause that free fall. So, he can unfairly be blamed in some stats, and he can be unfairly credited in some stats. For example,when the stock market had previously been 10k+, and it's sitting at 6k from this major economic event, saying he grew back that first 4k is pretty disingenuous. On the flip side, other stats can be used to say under his watch X months were bad, etc. You just have to look very carefully, and not just blindly compare his figures to those of presidents that were not operating in this unique scenario.

[Lenonis]

His starting point was an economy in free fall. He didn't cause that free fall. So, he can unfairly be blamed in some stats, and he can be unfairly credited in some stats. For example,when the stock market had previously been 10k+, and it's sitting at 6k from this major economic event, saying he grew back that first 4k is pretty disingenuous. On the flip side, other stats can be used to say under his watch X months were bad, etc. You just have to look very carefully, and not just blindly compare his figures to those of presidents that were not operating in this unique scenario.

Eh. I get your point, but the reality is that if Obama was truly incompetent (with an incompetent congress) the recovery wouldn't have happened at all.

Yes, there is an element of recovery that's basically automatically built into these sorts of things -- but even if we go ahead and check that box as not attributible to Obama, there's still things that show a positive improvement beyond that.

Anyway, it's really hard to compare this to something like the great depression anyway due to the global nature of the economy these days. A lot of the sluggishness of the recovery was the overall depressed state of the global economy.

[Tijuana]

I actually agree with that, but have pretty much given up on it as a point as everyone seems to look at the president as responsible for everything.

I'm not talking about TARP. I'm talking about Medicare part D expansion, two unfunded wars that Obama put on the books as one of his first actions, and the Bush Tax Cuts. Those three things alone pretty much wrecked the budget. Plus, as I mentioned before, the increase in social spending due to a crashed economy.

The question I have people (which you seem to be one) that think Obama is actually responsible for all the debt is this -- what programs that Obama put into place drove that debt?

Again, Bush was slated to have, and did have, budgets around the $250 billion mark, and shrinking. It's just not factually correct to pin him with the near trillion dollar deficits we saw under Obama.

Furthermore, as I already stated, this is not a presidential duty anyway. The people's purse is held by the House of Representatives.

The unfunded wars is a silly notion, just so you are aware. No wars are funded. All wars by definition are emergency spending. Did they cost a lot of money? Hell yes.

[Tehshocka]

Oversaw the biggest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the poors....

Has made America more racially divided than ever.

Couldn't get his tailor made predecessor (Hillary) elected over Donald Trump.

Increased the Welfare state so much people don't want to work (highest out of workforce number ever I believe).

Sent millions of meaningful jobs across the planet.

So unless you are poor, uneducated, not insured, or a combination of the three, you loved this president.

[Lenonis]

Again, Bush was slated to have, and did have, budgets around the $250 billion mark, and shrinking. It's just not factually correct to pin him with the near trillion dollar deficits we saw under Obama.

I will repeat again the point you are glossing over. One of Obama's first actions was to take off-the-books (IE not part of the budget) spending and put it into the budget where it belonged.

The unfunded wars is a silly notion, just so you are aware. No wars are funded. All wars by definition are emergency spending. Did they cost a lot of money? Hell yes.

Not sure what point you are trying to make. We're talking about spending -- the type is irrelevant. Bush spent money like it was going out of style. This is not a point that is up for debate. It's part of the factual record.

[Stommped]

How many people have voted, how many are allowed to vote, how many live in the US. Then we can talk about "50% of the population"
Because it's less than 25%.

But we don't have that data so it's irrelevant. There's missing data on both sides of the fence (those that like him and those that don't like him). The only data that we do have to go on suggests that about 50% think he did a good job.

[Fugus]

*added 45% of the total debt
*allowed more in, than any president in history
*I agree with the pardons but, some of them had charges including guns so your point is a bit soft
*while job growth sort of kind of happened eventually, he was still the only president to never grow the economy by 3% in a single year

Added 68% to the total debt when it would have more than doubled without him and he managed to clean it up that much even with the republicans blocking him at every chance and then blaming him for not fixing the things they blocked.

The debt is one of the things about Obama's presidency I can't blame on him for a bad thing because of the fact that he slashed the deficit creating it and the republican obstruction prevented much of the things that would have done it more.

By comparison Bush literally doubled it and Trump's plans already are on track to do the same if not worse just from his plans so far before he has even started.

[Wildtree]

This is one accomplishment.

This is the result of the housing bubble that threw the economy into a recession. Of course the home ownership rate is down, as it should.
No one is suppose to get a mortgage if they cannot realistically afford it. That simply doesn't work, as we experienced.

We're at a level where we now have healthy ownership dominating the housing market, and the property prices are on the rise again.
When we look at statistics, it is always helpful to tell a more detailed story.

This is relevant too
http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-exis...007-1466604369

summary take:
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/...t-in-9-charts/

[Deleted]

Added 68% to the total debt when it would have more than doubled without him and he managed to clean it up that much even with the republicans blocking him at every chance and then blaming him for not fixing the things they blocked.

I doubt that claim, since nobody can peek into the alternate history where somebody else was in charge.

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This is the result of the housing bubble that threw the economy into a recession. Of course the home ownership rate is down, as it should.
No one is suppose to get a mortgage if they cannot realistically afford it. That simply doesn't work, as we experienced.

We're at a level where we now have healthy ownership dominating the housing market, and the property prices are on the rise again.
When we look at statistics, it is always helpful to tell a more detailed story.

This is relevant too
http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-exis...007-1466604369

summary take:
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/...t-in-9-charts/

1. Those articles are behind a paywall.
2. It's the WSJ, I wouldn't trust them much.

[ExtremelyCrusty]

The nation will be tuning in tonight to say farewell to President Obama, unarguably in my opinion, the best President the US has ever had. He has accomplished so much in the last 8 years and it will be hard to say goodbye to him. I will miss him so much and have zero hopes in his alleged successor.

You're joking, right?

[Wildtree]

1. Those articles are behind a paywall.
2. It's the WSJ, I wouldn't trust them much.

The points I presented can easily be researched.
If you don't trust the WSJ, there are a multitude of sources out there, telling you the same things.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph...daily-chart-20

[Fugus]

I doubt that claim, since nobody can peek into the alternate history where somebody else was in charge.

The fact stands that when Bush left office, they where holding over a trillion dollar budget deficit exploding the nation debt and it has been cut in half under the Obama administration even with the republicans costing us billions in 2 government shutdowns and blocking everything they could.

So either way you cut it, he reduced the deficit that was caused under the Bush administration. Not alternate history behind that. I am not even an Obama supporter but I am not going to lie about the man and claim he was bad under something he was actually helped with.

Obama added roughly 7.8 trillion to the debt that would have been projected to add much more than that under the deficits left by the previous administration.

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You're joking, right?

You think that is a joke, you would be begging for him if you actually looked into the man coming to replace him.

I remember when Bush came into power and fucked shit up and people were floating the old Bill Clinton memes "Better Blow Jobs than No Jobs", wonder what the memes will be with the fuckeduppedness caused by the Trump guys just judging by what he has proposed now. Kinda expect something along the lines of relating his policies to the robber barons and such.

[ExtremelyCrusty]

The fact stands that when Bush left office, they where holding over a trillion dollar budget deficit exploding the nation debt and it has been cut in half under the Obama administration even with the republicans costing us billions in 2 government shutdowns and blocking everything they could.

So either way you cut it, he reduced the deficit that was caused under the Bush administration. Not alternate history behind that. I am not even an Obama supporter but I am not going to lie about the man and claim he was bad under something he was actually helped with.

Obama added roughly 7.8 trillion to the debt that would have been projected to add much more than that under the deficits left by the previous administration.

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You think that is a joke, you would be begging for him if you actually looked into the man coming to replace him.

I remember when Bush came into power and fucked shit up and people were floating the old Bill Clinton memes "Better Blow Jobs than No Jobs", wonder what the memes will be with the fuckeduppedness caused by the Trump guys just judging by what he has proposed now. Kinda expect something along the lines of relating his policies to the robber barons and such.

They're both shitty.

[Deleted]

Obamas Legacy: Golf vacations and drone strikes.

[Deleted]

Ah, understood, but also comes to the opinion part.

As far as Unarguably, pretty much anything fails that qualifier in modern day, we have the climate change people trying to deny the consensus of over 97% of the scientific community and people trying to claim Trickle Down Economics is a good thing and cutting taxes creates jobs. At this point, we have people who would argue against 2+2 equaling 4 and then threaten, insult, or ignore you for correcting them.

Yes, and that is the whole point. When someone is so firm in their opinion about something that it no longer is possible to convince them otherwise, that argument is now unarguable. It's no harder than that. You can argue the point, but unless you actually convince them of anything, you're really just complaining.

From a pure factual perspective, there is always an argument, but from semantic and emotional viewpoints most people have plenty of opinions that they will never budge on, thus making the unarguable, in their opinions.

It's frankly insulting to think that someone should change their opinion just because another group of society doesnt agree, especially when said group would never have their opinion budged as well.

There are times and places for arguments, but sometimes its about knowing when to just let it go. A racist isnt going to reform just because you point out how mean he is being, he believes himself perfectly justified in his actions. Just as an example.

[Fugus]

Yes, and that is the whole point. When someone is so firm in their opinion about something that it no longer is possible to convince them otherwise, that argument is now unarguable. It's no harder than that. You can argue the point, but unless you actually convince them of anything, you're really just complaining.

From a pure factual perspective, there is always an argument, but from semantic and emotional viewpoints most people have plenty of opinions that they will never budge on, thus making the unarguable, in their opinions.

It's frankly insulting to think that someone should change their opinion just because another group of society doesnt agree, especially when said group would never have their opinion budged as well.

There are times and places for arguments, but sometimes its about knowing when to just let it go. A racist isnt going to reform just because you point out how mean he is being, he believes himself perfectly justified in his actions. Just as an example.

I know plenty of people like that, I am just one who prefers to base my views on facts and logic over anything else. And while there are mountains of those who refuse to acknowledge facts there are some who actually take a step back and look at it when you show them the facts behind the propaganda they have been given.

But oh yeah, I have seen plenty who pure lose their damn minds if you point out the flaws in what they were saying with the truth. I have had a guy pure lose his mind and calling me a freeloader and Trump is going to get rid of people like me...... He called me this because I collect money from the VA over a spinal injury and nerve damage the Army caused and am bad enough off that their own doctors say I will be in pain till the day I die and will never be able to work again. But to him, I was a freeloader for not working and daring to down his messiah Trump with such archaic things as logic and the truth.

[Deleted]

I'm gonna be honest, I didn't exactly hate him at first but after he clearly became a SJW/regressive shill and started repeating their untruths and lies, nope, good riddance. Especially now, when Trump has proven that he means business by putting CNN and their ilk in their place.

[Orbitus]

I'm gonna be honest, I didn't exactly hate him at first but after he clearly became a SJW/regressive shill and started repeating their untruths and lies, nope, good riddance. Especially now, when Trump has proven that he means business by putting CNN and their ilk in their place.

No, you aren't going to be honest. You are being the same shitty poster you have always been. Putting CNN "in their place", is violating the 1st amendment. He isn't putting them in their place, he is showing how bullshit he is and how far he is going to violate the constitution. Nothing CNN has said about him is false. He is just labeling it "fake news" because it paints him in a shittier light than he already is. I mean look at his first approval rating poll. Obama's last one was 55%, Trump's is at 38%. Usually incoming presidents start relatively high and go up and down based on what they do, not start absurdly fucking low and go into the shitter from there. He may possibly hit the low of Chris Christie at 18% approval rating. Hell, he could beat Harry Truman as the worst president for approval who was at 22%.