The Terrifying Stakes Of Repealing Obamacare Without A Clear Replacement

[zenkai]

Burger slinger? I run a gallery and live a block from one of the most gorgeous beaches in America. I literally have nothing but free time to enjoy myself and take care of my mother. And I pay for my own insurance.

What I'm not is someone whose frail ego is tied to how much better I'm doing than everyone around me. What I am is someone who when he sees others in need of help, I offer a hand rather than sneer. What I am is someone who wants everyone around me to live a great life where they don't need to worry about going bankrupt if they get fucking sick.

Now crawl back into your hole.

You took that personal, I was saying burger slingers in general. Which by the way I did in high school and while in college.

[Edge-]

No caps, some of the other stuff you said is all good stuff. However, the cost of many plans (obamacare plans) are stupid high. High premiums and 10-15k deductibles are basically just catastophe plans. So... I'll go back to my opinion that Obamacare was about taking away mediocre to average plans away from people in the lower middle class who had some kind of plan at their somewhat shitty benefits job, replacing them with catastrophe plans that are too expensive to actually use, then getting anyone who didn't have a healthcare plan free healthcare. It simply shifted the day to day difficulty from the poor to the lower middle class, which may "break" those middle classers, but at least they now have protections from catastrophe.

Maybe it's because I live in CA, but when I shopped for plans on the exchange I don't think I saw a single plan with more than a $5K OOP maximum (and lower deductibles, usually around $2,500). I have to imagine the higher deductibles come from states that refused the federal money to expand their programs/subsidize their citizens? Because that's on those states, not the ACA.

[Templar 331]

That's not acceptable. Basically all of the other countries in the G8 have affordable healthcare. Why are these politicians so scared of that.

It's not the politicians, most of them anyway, who are afraid of the ACA and healthcare reform. It's their ignorant constituents who are. Some of the nuttier ones think that the ACA IS health insurance and that Obama is making you buy it. Many of them though just don't want to have to buy something they think they don't need, even though that is very short sighted. There are politicians that are against the ACA on an ideological level, but I think they just hate poor people. >.>

[Zandalarian Paladin]

I had some health issues in the past and had to see some specialists and had a few MRIs done among other things. I can't imagine if I needed to pay for that out of pocket. It just wouldn't be fair in a society to make a university student pay for thousands of dollars in medical fees on top of tuition. It's a shame Americans are allowing this and not voting these people out.

It's a shame for many things. The health care, unaffordable education, low wages. There are many many things that are simply horrible in the US that I am extremely thankful to have in Canada.

[zenkai]

It's called debt, which something we are trying to avoid.

Again I wasn't talking about dept I was addressing saying people would die. It's sad I have to repeat myself, reading is hard.

[Crissi]

Maybe it's because I live in CA, but when I shopped for plans on the exchange I don't think I saw a single plan with more than a $5K OOP maximum (and lower deductibles, usually around $2,500). I have to imagine the higher deductibles come from states that refused the federal money to expand their programs/subsidize their citizens? Because that's on those states, not the ACA.

Can confirm this. Texas gets more expensive plans, because Texas is stupid and didnt accept the help.

[zenkai]

It's not the politicians, most of them anyway, who are afraid of the ACA and healthcare reform. It's their ignorant constituents who are. Some of the nuttier ones think that the ACA IS health insurance and that Obama is making you buy it. Many of them though just don't want to have to buy something they think they don't need, even though that is very short sighted. There are politicians that are against the ACA on an ideological level, but I think they just hate poor people. >.>

Nah he's not making you buy health insurance, he's just fining the shit out of you if you don't have it, that isn't forcing you at all to buy insurance.

[unfilteredJW]

You took that personal, I was saying burger slingers in general. Which by the way I did in high school and while in college.

Of course I did. You have a garbage attitude that needs to be met with the same level of vitriol that your "Fuck you, I got mine" egoism shows.

And that wasn't in general.

[Templar 331]

Nah he's not making you buy health insurance, he's just fining the shit out of you if you don't have it, that isn't forcing you at all to buy insurance.

Was referring to people thinking they're buying "Obama's health insurance." Not insurance in general. This is why many uninformed people think that the ACA is insurance, because they have to buy insurance because of the ACA.

[Crissi]

Nah he's not making you buy health insurance, he's just fining the shit out of you if you don't have it, that isn't forcing you at all to buy insurance.

The problem is, without young people buying the health insurance (and the healthy), premiums sky rocket. The fine was supposed to encourage these poeple to help stabilize premiums by providing a reliable income with low expense bracket for insurance companies.

That...seems to have failed.

I suppose the only other way to get it to work is to make the govt the sole arbitraitor of health stuff so they can negotiate lower prices using their full weight. Kinda like how you get bulk discounts.

[Zenfoldor]

I'm glad they are replacing it. I'd rather buy catastrophic coverage(which a bronze level Obamacare plan already is) at a much lower price that I do today. In the event I develop a serious condition, I would be covered but I would also go broke.

Keep a few things, like no pre-existing conditions. Create risk pools, so the people who are sick and who are at risk of getting sick(obese, smokers, ect) pay more and have a personal responsibility in their health. Remove the individual mandate. Allow insurance companies to create the cheap policies that people want to buy and allow those policies to compete across the nation.

Having the young and healthy prop up the old and sick was never going to work. Young and healthy gain nothing from catastrophic coverage because too many loopholes allow them to signup outside of open enrollment. Insurance companies are not getting paid as promised because not enough money in the fiduciary to cover it. Expanded Medicaid made up the majority of "newly insured" and they pay nothing, new people on the insurance roles are paid for by people who already have coverage before Obamacare.

They should keep the basic premise and fix a few things. No one(even poor) should get completely free insurance, as it leads to fraud and abuse. The purpose of copays is to engage the patient in responsibility of their insurance usage and must exist for Medicaid too.

Everyone should have healthcare, but it must be a sustainable plan that has bipartisan support, not a plan that half the country hates and refuses to maintain when parts of it go wrong.

PS: Republicans have dozens of plans to replace Obamacare, and when Dr Price takes over HHS you will find out quickly that he is the right man for the job. Most who comment here don't even know Dr. Price and his history. Read up on him and be pleasantly surprised.

PPS: It's getting repealed irregardless. Some here seem to hope the replacement fails. I hope it succeeds.

[zenkai]

Of course I did. You have a garbage attitude that needs to be met with the same level of vitriol that your "Fuck you, I got mine" egoism shows.

And that wasn't in general.

Oh I didn't know you replied to me with a good positive attitude, my bad.

[God Save The King]

This is what critics don't understand. Forget the "The ACA is fine, but get rid of Obamacare" memes that have been going around. Lives are going to be endangered if this gets repealed. The insurance industry isn't around because they care about the health of our country. They are a for profit business. The second the ACA is repealed, the "can't discriminate against people with pre-existing conditions" portion of all of our healthcare plans will go away. That means those who need the insurance most will once again be unable to get it.

I'm one of the people who'll be screwed. I've been fighting cancer now since November of 2015. I'm considered a high risk investment for the insurance company and they'd love to kick me off their plan. Prior to the ACA, that kind of thing happened all the time. Hell, when I worked in the industry, I had to explain to a family in person why we couldn't insure the applicant who was in his 30s because, as a teenager, he had cancer (15+ years prior). That's 15 years without any signs of it coming back and we still wouldn't insure him. I'm honestly scared of what will happen. I don't want to die because I can't afford my treatments. I HAVE insurance now and I've still had 2 fundraisers just to help with my medical expenses. I've seen 3 different doctors this week alone (Monday, Tuesday, Thursday). I have another 2 appointments next week and 3 the week after (so far). What am I going to do if I can't get insurance?

According to Republicans, you're going to pull yerself by yer boostraps, work hard, and pay it yourself. I'm truly sorry about your situation. My grandmother, mother, and one of my sisters are in the same situation as you. My grandmother will have Medicare/Medicaid to fall back at least - unless they repeal that as well. There is no real solution if they repeal that clause of the ACA. At the very worst, if you're basically dying, you can go to an emergency room and they have to treat you. It'll cost like 100k in bills however per visit..


Also, check your PMs

[unfilteredJW]

Can confirm this. Texas gets more expensive plans, because Texas is stupid and didnt accept the help.

FL same boat.

But Rick Scott is a tool bag so no surprise. Thanks, old people!

[Narwal]

Sure, if Republicans keep the preexisting conditions clause that would be great. But since they haven't rallied around a single plan, despite having several years to do so, I'm going to err on the side of caution.

And if they're going to keep all the good parts, then don't repeal it. Just fix it. I mean, you have to pay for those good parts somehow.

I've heard like 3 or 4 talking points from Democrats on what is great about obamacare that they want to keep, yet the law is 2000+ pages. As a computer programmer, if I was handed a program that had 4 business rules to maintain that when I cracked open the source files it was 2000+ files of spaghetti code, I'm probably going to just start from scratch and not try to refactor that heaping pile of bullshit. It's far to expensive to work on something that was "constructed" with the intention of not being able to be changed (which is what democrats and obama have been trying to do).

[unfilteredJW]

Oh I didn't know you replied to me with a good positive attitude, my bad.

You get what you put in.

[I Push Buttons]

Not true, it depends how poor you are, if you are low income AKA poor. You pick a plan and the Government under ACA pays for part of your health insurance, but you still have high cost of deductibles and co-pays,

That's literally what I said...

If you make over 138% of the federal poverty guideline, which is only $16,243 (aka working full time at $8.50 an hour), then you don't qualify for medicaid.

You fall into the "medicaid gap"... People in that gap can buy coverage from exchanges, which include a tax subsidy that allows them to pay less taxes for buying that insurance.

When the ACA is repealed, the medicaid cutoff will be even lower AND those exchanges will no longer exist. So where do all those people get insurance? They can't afford it from a private company and they will make too much money to get medicaid?

Without insurance how do they afford treatment? A hospital is required by law to provide lifesaving measures in an ER, that's about it... They aren't required to hand out free transplants... They don't give out free meds... They don't do anything for free.

[Machismo]

I am perfectly fine with repealing the ACA. We will go back to the way it was before, living in a fucked up system, albeit voluntarily. All the ACA did, was force people to buy into that same fucked up system. I always felt is was a gross overstep of government authority, and was implemented extremely poorly.

My mother is a huge Trump supporter. I love that woman to death, but she posted ignorant shit all the time about... well about everything. She was able to get cancer treatment, because of the ACA. More specifically, she was able to get insurance to cover her, because of the ACA. She was so proud when Trump won, and he was finally going to "clean things up." it just dawned on her last night, after i explained that there is no longer any protection for people with pre-existing conditions, and she will almost certainly not have access to insurance. Most insurance companies won't look to be covering a 60+ year-old cancer survivor for anything she could come close to affording. Her current insurance is through the ACA exchange in California, and that will almost certainly go away in the next couple years. When she asked what she should do, I told her that there is no answer to that question, and she'll find out within a year or two. Elections have consequences.

[NYC17]

Of course I did. You have a garbage attitude that needs to be met with the same level of vitriol that your "Fuck you, I got mine" egoism shows.

And that wasn't in general.

How could you possibly have taken it personally? I mean he only said "you burger slingers".

#independentvoter

[zenkai]

Was referring to people thinking they're buying "Obama's health insurance." Not insurance in general. This is why many uninformed people think that the ACA is insurance, because they have to buy insurance because of the ACA.

Ah ok I got ya