Aspect of the beast feels better than killer cobra

[Deleted]

I changed sim time on AMR in the Ursoc H scenario to one minute and then thirty seconds. Everything seemed fine but I am no expert.

Aspect has some advantages and disadvantages (like everything I guess). Killer Cobra is burst. Need a super quick kill or fight an open world elite? Those 15 seconds spamming Kill Command will ensure it. But then we have 30-45 seconds (depending on procs, and 4P is going to also change this) with no BW. Or we may be saving BW to align with a CD. Or we know we will need BW in a bit and are saving it. In all of these scenarios Aspect is there pumping the extra damage where Killer cobra is a dead weight talent doing nothing.

If in realistic terms Aspect beats Killer Cobra I don't know, but the talents are equiparable and that is always nice. Aspect also makes us less focus starved which reduces the impact of not having the belt and even lets us move from Dire Stable.

[Chickensoup23]

I changed sim time on AMR in the Ursoc H scenario to one minute and then thirty seconds. Everything seemed fine but I am no expert.

Aspect has some advantages and disadvantages (like everything I guess). Killer Cobra is burst. Need a super quick kill or fight an open world elite? Those 15 seconds spamming Kill Command will ensure it. But then we have 30-45 seconds (depending on procs, and 4P is going to also change this) with no BW. Or we may be saving BW to align with a CD. Or we know we will need BW in a bit and are saving it. In all of these scenarios Aspect is there pumping the extra damage where Killer cobra is a dead weight talent doing nothing.

If in realistic terms Aspect beats Killer Cobra I don't know, but the talents are equiparable and that is always nice. Aspect also makes us less focus starved which reduces the impact of not having the belt and even lets us move from Dire Stable.

Does the damage of the AotB dot refresh if you apply a second one or does it stack to do more damage?

[nacixems]

i dont see the dot on mobs, need to review my logs to see how it ticks and adjusts, but the refresh is a good question.

[Khrux]

I ran AMR sims also and got the below values. I'm 883 equipped but only 32 traits and missing 1 KC/JoT relic.

Stable/KC - 381637 (standard combo)
Stable/Aotb - 391873
Way/Aotb - 398239 (highest sim combo)
Way/KC - 384604

I'm quite surprised by this also, however as I'm missing a KC focused relic and don't have the legendary belt it would make sense I guess? I'll try the Way/AOTB combo over the weekend and see how it plays out. Although I enjoy the killer cobra talent.

[Deleted]

I look forward to seeing further sims but (if true) on a skill basis, if they really are that tight together, I think for players who are starting into the raiding or mythics and perhaps are far off the skill levels needed to squeeze every ounce of dps out of a more active rotation may be considerably better off with Aotb.

KC window play I find good, and playstyle wise an actual very easy (and regular) dps window to max yourself out in, but it's still fluffable when it's 2am and you're on your 5-6th beer. Knowing there's an alternative option there which is passive which is just a very minor dps loss for when you're playing knackered is always good to know of.

[Deleted]

I ran AMR sims also and got the below values. I'm 883 equipped but only 32 traits and missing 1 KC/JoT relic.

Stable/KC - 381637 (standard combo)
Stable/Aotb - 391873
Way/Aotb - 398239 (highest sim combo)
Way/KC - 384604

I'm quite surprised by this also, however as I'm missing a KC focused relic and don't have the legendary belt it would make sense I guess? I'll try the Way/AOTB combo over the weekend and see how it plays out. Although I enjoy the killer cobra talent.

So the guide on icy veins is wrong?

[Khrux]

So the guide on icy veins is wrong?

I wouldn't say its wrong, in the most optimal scenario Stable/KC is probably the stronger combo but its dependent on fight length, your own stats, what legendarys you have, your relics etc.

For me personally, Way/Aotb looks like a better option *if* askmrrobot is reliable which many put into question(I don't know enough to comment on that). So the usual "sim it yourself" rules apply.

[nacixems]

I wouldn't say its wrong, in the most optimal scenario Stable/KC is probably the stronger combo but its dependent on fight length, your own stats, what legendarys you have etc.

For me personally, Way/Aotb looks like a better option *if* askmrrobot is reliable which many put into question(I don't know enough to comment on that). So the usual "sim it yourself" rules apply.

thats the key, do ur own testing see what betters YOUR numbers. use Icy as a base, but to just play a spec cause they say it without even doing some of your own testing is kind of lazy.. imo.

[Deleted]

thats the key, do ur own testing see what betters YOUR numbers. use Icy as a base, but to just play a spec cause they say it without even doing some of your own testing is kind of lazy.. imo.

You would be correct but since 7.1.5 I am just not enjoying my hunter for one bit so doing my own testing is just painful.
So I am trying to get some information true forums and updated guides.

[nacixems]

You would be correct but since 7.1.5 I am just not enjoying my hunter for one bit so doing my own testing is just painful.
So I am trying to get some information true forums and updated guides.

totally understand. its hard for most of us to find that fun factor. i have been a hunter since back in the day, have a few others rogue and a warrior so i find my self jumping on my alts more and more. i guess no matter how bad it gets, i will always be/play one. just not as much. good luck, hopefully some new tweeks will be incoming soon. <fingers crossed>

[Deleted]

Did a LFR to test a bit and I feel that Aspect is better suited to play around in the open world or leveling. We're not popping BW as soon as it is up to kill a few low HP mobs. In a raid we usually coordinate our CDs with potions or heroism when available and spam BW on CD for the whole duration. Or we strive to hit vulnerable windows. Or have important adds that need to die *now*. Killer Cobra does this by allowing to spam KC for bursty damage.

It's numbers versus actual gameplay though. On a multi-minute fight where numbers even out Aspect might indeed be that better option.

[Aggrophobic]

Im testing it in a dummy and it looks like my dps is slighty higher with aspect of the beast , of course i lack a third kill command relic and also im not sure how much difference it will make with new set bonuses , right now aspect isnt really weaker than killer cobra.

Whatever you're using, you're still the worst DPS spec in the game.
It does not matter what talents you pick.

[Sabinn]

After doing tests on askmrrobot and simcraft to understand why aspect of the beast is getting better results than in simcraft ( by like 30k at least) , I noticed that in askmrrobot the ferocity bleed crits a lot while in simcraft the bleed does not crit at all.

In game testing I didnt see a single crit.

So there is that, you guys may have found a bug in askmrrobot simulation

[Deleted]

That might explain it I don't have the time to now but if the bleeds don't crit on mobs it was a good catch, Sabinn.

[Vellithe]

I wouldn't say its wrong, in the most optimal scenario Stable/KC is probably the stronger combo but its dependent on fight length, your own stats, what legendarys you have, your relics etc.

For me personally, Way/Aotb looks like a better option *if* askmrrobot is reliable which many put into question(I don't know enough to comment on that). So the usual "sim it yourself" rules apply.

Yep. With Mantle, a ton of mastery and three KC relics I lose more than 10k DPS from going AotB. Dire Stable also beats Way of the Cobra Single Target for a tiny amount (but since it's also better for anything that's not ST it's simply better all around).

From the latest SimulationCraft beta on me (Mantle, 2 Jaws of Thunder Relic, 1 Pack Leader Relic, Mastery everywhere, 865 iLvl, Hidden Satyr enchant, cheap enchants elsewhere, cheap gems, low iLvl pure stat trinkets, Artifact Level 26, YMMV):

• DS/Stomp/BF/KC: 349.5k
• DS/Stomp/BF/AotB: 332.4k
• DS/Stomp/OwtP/KC: 346.3k
• DS/DF/BS/AotB: 333.3k
• DS/DF/BF/KC: 353.4k
• BGH/Stomp/OwtP/KC: 349.1k
• BGH/Stomp/BF/KC: 347.2k
• BGH/DF/BF/KC: 355.6k
• BGH/DF/OwtP/KC: 353k
• BGH/DF/OwtP/AotB: 337.2k
• BGH/DF/BS/KC: 350k
• BGH/DF/BS/AotB: 339.1k
• Way/DF/OwtP/AotB: 331.1k
• Way/Stomp/BS/AotB: 339.9k
• Way/DF/BF/AotB: 339.3k
• Way/Stomp/BF/AotB: 338.7k
• Way/Stomp/BF/KC: 348.5k

It's surprising how well BGH/OwtP is performing on 6 minutes long single target fights. Might also be worth remembering that Bestial Fury + Killer Cobra means a strong burst, which might be more important than the higher overall DPS provided by BGH/OwtP on some fights since it doesn't matter that you climbed up on recount if the lack of burst caused a wipe. BGH/OwtP might also be frustrating to play if you're not a robot.

Way would probably have performed better if I had the +9% Cobra Shot damage on the artifact, though, so I'd take Way underperforming with a grain of salt, particularly since it's so close to DS (On single target). Plus I have a lot of mastery for the iLvl, which should be valuing KC more than usual (though stacking Mastery is what everyone should be doing, so this probably ok for a problem). But I don't expect way to get too far ahead of DS, and DS being more versatile means it'll probably always be better.

I'm not certain whether SimulationCraft is taking full advantage of the new legendary shoulders, so it's possible that BGH/OwtP is even better than it appears to be or that other talents are stronger than they look up there.

I'll also stick to my first post and say that AotB is always better than a misused Killer Cobra, though SimulationCraft's priority seems to be careful enough with focus and I imagine AskMrRobot is just running SimulationCraft on their servers.

[Khrux]

Nice find Sabinn, I can't verify ingame if its possible for bestial ferocity(the spell name) to crit, but the crits alone account for 1,965,616 worth of extra damage so removing the additional damage to ensure all ticks are considered hits only; I'm seeing a loss of 9,360 dps.

The difference between DS/KC(381637dps) and Way/Aotb(398239dps) for me personally is 16,602dps so the 9.3k additional dps gained from AotB critting only accounts for half the difference putting Way/AotB still ahead for me.

Disclaimer: if these figures are even correct, the difference is so small(~1.8%) that it makes next to no difference and especially so in a real fight where priority targets/burst/aoe/fight mechanics etc. change everything.

[Deleted]

Done a bit of testing in-game and it did not crit once. Tried to mess around a bit with AMR but it was my first time and it went nowhere. Still.

[Zoopercat]

@Zuuda - what are you trying to do on AMR? I can help or send over a few insider tricks.

[Chickensoup23]

Yep. With Mantle, a ton of mastery and three KC relics I lose more than 10k DPS from going AotB. Dire Stable also beats Way of the Cobra Single Target for a tiny amount (but since it's also better for anything that's not ST it's simply better all around).

From the latest SimulationCraft beta on me (Mantle, 2 Jaws of Thunder Relic, 1 Pack Leader Relic, Mastery everywhere, 865 iLvl, Hidden Satyr enchant, cheap enchants elsewhere, cheap gems, low iLvl pure stat trinkets, Artifact Level 26, YMMV):

• DS/Stomp/BF/KC: 349.5k
• DS/Stomp/BF/AotB: 332.4k
• DS/Stomp/OwtP/KC: 346.3k
• DS/DF/BS/AotB: 333.3k
• DS/DF/BF/KC: 353.4k
• BGH/Stomp/OwtP/KC: 349.1k
• BGH/Stomp/BF/KC: 347.2k
• BGH/DF/BF/KC: 355.6k
• BGH/DF/OwtP/KC: 353k
• BGH/DF/OwtP/AotB: 337.2k
• BGH/DF/BS/KC: 350k
• BGH/DF/BS/AotB: 339.1k
• Way/DF/OwtP/AotB: 331.1k
• Way/Stomp/BS/AotB: 339.9k
• Way/DF/BF/AotB: 339.3k
• Way/Stomp/BF/AotB: 338.7k
• Way/Stomp/BF/KC: 348.5k

Does that mean that Bestial Fury is now better than blink strikes? I can see it being true on Patchwerk but when it comes to movement, Blink Strikes saves my ass because pets still attack my target (see: Ursoc mythic)

[Deleted]

@Zuuda - what are you trying to do on AMR? I can help or send over a few insider tricks.

I was trying to edit Aspect of the Beast to give a 0% chance to crit, but it was all chinese to me