The Terrifying Stakes Of Repealing Obamacare Without A Clear Replacement

[Fenius]

So the company you work for decided to charge you way more for your insurance and its ACA fault?

wish i could say the same about property tax that pays for your kid to go to school but somehow people without kids have to pay for it. Somehow its their responsibility to help pay for your kids education.

i could name a few more uses of our tax dollars that benefit you and not us. How about that mortgage deduction. oh you get a tax break to help pay for your house, but because people rent they don't.

etc etc etc

First off it is not my employers responsibility to cover my insurance cost. Which by the way they do cover some 75%. Again this clearly shows how under educated you in are in what employer cost are. As for property tax dollars, no you should not have to pay for education if you have no children. Plain and simple really. I do not understand how this concept is foreign to you but ok what ever. And actually people who rent did use to get a deduction, but guess what the leftist in this country removed it. Oh you also could in times past deduct your credit card interest. But hey again how would you know this with out educating yourself. Again removed by the leftist in this country. Do you care to go on about what you need for free.

[Zan15]

Nah he's not making you buy health insurance, he's just fining the shit out of you if you don't have it, that isn't forcing you at all to buy insurance.

FUCK President Eisenhower for making me buy health insurance.......fucking medicare.

[Fenius]

This is just fucking golden.

Your some kind of special are't you? Yeah you must be.

[Tennis]

Really please explain to me why? I already stated in my opening post that it is a shit deal. It is, I am not denying that. What I am saying is it is not my responsibility to take care of you. The ACA was and is a joke. It has a plethora of things it did right. Twice as many things it did wrong. Not once did it tackle the problem of prescription drugs in the US. Which is a huge cost to many Americans. What it did do was provide 20 million people with free lunch at the expense of others. How is that fair? It's not, but all individual like you and others like you want to talk about is free shit. How it's the Governments job to care for me. Well guess what its not the Governments job to take care of you or provide with you with a living. Is it crappy that the individual I responded to has Cancer yes it is. But he had options to additional coverage called a Cancer policy prior to getting cancer. Would it have a cost, yes it would. One of the primary attributes to the rise in premiums was the fact insurance companies could no longer cap the dollar limit on your plan. Under ACA the basic plan has to cover everything, which was and is still retarded. The entire ACA has done nothing but line the pockets of insurance companies. None of you have even talked about the increase profits these guys have had none of you. All you want to bitch and complain about is getting free shit. So forgive me if I do not give two shits about how or what you think of me. Because none of you look at a much larger picture beyond your own damn back doors.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/insure...rticle/2005073

One article of many.

You are trying to prove him right? What kind of decent human being only cares for themselves? It's about what's best for the community, for society and for those who are less fortunate and disadvantaged. Me me me gets us nowhere.

[Deleted]

Really please explain to me why? I already stated in my opening post that it is a shit deal. It is, I am not denying that. What I am saying is it is not my responsibility to take care of you.

See this is the bit I never understood. I mean, I understand not wanting to pay taxes which will partially benefit other people, but the inconsistency is strange. Your taxes also go towards running schools, but what if you don't have kids? You're paying to educate other people's children. Surely you should also not have to do that? And what about the military? What happens if you don't consider a particular military operation part of "your war", should you be able to opt out of taxes over that?

Genuinely curious by the way, not trying to attack you or anything, just want to know what makes these different.

[Aori]

The ACA is only good for those with medical conditions who couldn't get coverage previously and have the money to afford it. Otherwise since the ACA costs have skyrocketed across the board, even for the poor. ACA is a terrible system, it is causing even more strain on people financially.

Healthcare costs are out of control, ACA or no ACA, we're fucked.

[unfilteredJW]

Your some kind of special are't you? Yeah you must be.

Projecting again.

But you might get it on the way back around. It only takes a small bit of awareness.

[Krigaren]

No, it won't. Doctors in Canada are still paid very well. A person who wants to be a doctor isn't suddenly going to decide to be an Astrophysicist because they can't make $440k a year, and have to settle for $200k.

People seem to divorce the reality of what "Socalized medicine" does from what they think it does.

Going to a single-payer system, or even a government-run system, doesn't suddenly make doctors government workers. It doesn't make them suddenly slave labor working chain-gang medicine. Doctors are still private employees who work for private medical providers. All that changes is what insurance companies can charge for their coverage. Doctors don't work for insurance companies either.

Hospitals charge the outrageous prices they charge, because they're forced by law to provide emergency medical services for people and then collect the money later. If those people don't have insurance, the hospital is left in the lurch, and have to make up their costs by charging people who DO have insurance more for their coverage. This in turn means that insurance companies raise their rates, because they need to keep their profits up for their investors and shareholders.

So, you see, the rising cost of healtcare isn't because of doctors. It's because people don't have insurance, who can't pay, who raise the costs of medical care billed to those of us who have insurance, which "trickles down" to the insurers as higher premiums and less coverage (to minimize their exposure to costs), which causes more people to drop out of insurance markets, which causes hospitals to incur more uncollectable debt when their services are needed, who then raises the costs of their medical care billed to those who have insurance, which....

Y'all get the idea.

[Vyxn]

See this is the bit I never understood. I mean, I understand not wanting to pay taxes which will partially benefit other people, but the inconsistency is strange. Your taxes also go towards running schools, but what if you don't have kids? You're paying to educate other people's children. Surely you should also not have to do that? And what about the military? What happens if you don't consider a particular military operation part of "your war", should you be able to opt out of taxes over that?

Genuinely curious by the way, not trying to attack you or anything, just want to know what makes these different.

you are right none of that is the federal governments constructional responsibility other then national defense and they shouldn't be involved
get the feds the hell out of our schools

[Zan15]

What should boggle ones mind is this fact. Before Obamacare, both I and my wife had HMO's through our employers. Those combined plans were far cheaper and better than anything we have had since Obamacare has been enacted. Our healthcare premium now exceeds the cost we had for both HMO's coming out of our pockets monthly combined. Our deductible is three times more than it was under the HMO's. Drug prices are also more under Obamacare, as well as everything else. Many of the drugs that were covered under the HMO's are not covered under Obamacare. The waivers we used to get on some of the drugs my wife takes because cancer have literally gone through the roof or are no longer able to get a waiver to get a cheaper alternative. What is law did is further make the problems that were already bad before it, worse not better. If they were hell bent on giving healthcare to millions. They should of did what most of these people that got healthcare under Obamacare with being placed on Medicaid. For all of the screwed up crap this law did. All it really achieved is put people on something they could of done with a stroke of pen, not further screw up healthcare for those that were already getting decent healthcare that now have crap.

So the company you work for offered health insurance.
Once ACA hit they either increased the hell out of your cost sharing portion of the health insurance and used ACA as an excuse?

they increased your deductible they increased your premiums...etc etc etc


or they outright kicked you off employer based insurance and saved a boatload. not really sure. Either way it sounds like your company has done what many have....charged a lot more for healthcare and blamed it all on Obamacare.



i am actually paying less for health insurance now then i was before, no subsidies. my coverage is about the same, because my company did not try and screw us over.

[Draco-Onis]

The ACA is only good for those with medical conditions who couldn't get coverage previously and have the money to afford it. Otherwise since the ACA costs have skyrocketed across the board, even for the poor. ACA is a terrible system, it is causing even more strain on people financially.

Healthcare costs are out of control, ACA or no ACA, we're fucked.

ACA was never designed to control cost and even with that most people will be paying $100 per month thanks to subsidies. The ACA is a terrible system we should have gotten single payer system with price controls like the rest of the world but the ACA is not supposed to do a lot of things people tack onto it.

[Fenius]

You are trying to prove him right? What kind of decent human being only cares for themselves? It's about what's best for the community, for society and for those who are less fortunate and disadvantaged. Me me me gets us nowhere.

Actually my point is you cannot take from someone to give from some one else. Which is what the ACA has done. No one here is focusing on what the problem really is. All anyone wants these day is free shit because they believe they are entitled to it.

For example I pose the following question What is the corporate difference between a mom & pop shop (i.e. Mom's Bakery) vs Boeing?

The answer is nothing under tax law absolutely nothing. My pissy attitude is directly pointed to those who say because I make x should be penalized. I do not own a company nor do i wish to. However, I am constantly attacked by those who are less fortunate or to lazy to do something because of my success. If you heard my story you probably be shocked, but its irrelevant. If you truly want to affect change then go after the banking laws and tax laws in this country protecting a well defined few at the 1% and quit attacking Middle Class Americans. What is a middle class Americans. Poverty level here in the US starts and 53k and below.

[Tinykong]

you at right none of that is the governments constructional responsibility other then national defense and they shouldn't be involved get the feds the hell out of our schools

"Caveat Emptor: No need for a nanny state, I can test my own food for botulism!"

[Krigaren]

the right forced the Democrats to compromise it away.? what a crock of shit
not a single republican voted for it democrats didn't need a single republican vote only deals they had to cut to get it to pass was with other democrats

Actually, 1 Republican voted for the ACA in 2010. Anh Cao (R) from Louisiana voted for it. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/111-2009/h887

Also, 39 Democrats voted AGAINST it.

So, your lack of knowledge of the reasons why the compromises happened not withstanding, the law was compromised, and the Democrats of the day didn't vote as a bloc. I know people like you think liberals are all single-minded automatons, but we're actually not.

[Zan15]

You're arguments would hold more weight if you used actual, sourced, numbers and not relied on over-exaggeration and fear mongering.

lol don't you know who you are talking too?

Maybe not but they make 30% of what a doctor in the USA makes

Which will lead to a shortage of doctors. Less doctors and more people seeking care leads to things like waiting 5 years for a knee replacement

He also says obama increased the debt by 300% and other great top hits.


he loves to exaggerate.

[Fenius]

See this is the bit I never understood. I mean, I understand not wanting to pay taxes which will partially benefit other people, but the inconsistency is strange. Your taxes also go towards running schools, but what if you don't have kids? You're paying to educate other people's children. Surely you should also not have to do that? And what about the military? What happens if you don't consider a particular military operation part of "your war", should you be able to opt out of taxes over that?

Genuinely curious by the way, not trying to attack you or anything, just want to know what makes these different.

Finally a sane person cool. Actually I do not think you should have to pay taxes for school if you do not have children. Personally I would because it benefits us all. As for military, it is the a Governments job to provide for a common defense so yes we all need to contribute to his. As for it not being my war that would be defined differently then say I need to buy tanks for our military. Which is why it is congress's job to declare war and control the war budget. Your question seems to be placed more along the lines of is it morally justifiable?!. rehtorichal

[Wolfheart9]

the right forced the Democrats to compromise it away.? what a crock of shit
not a single republican voted for it democrats didn't need a single republican vote only deals they had to cut to get it to pass was with other democrats

Learn your history, please. The Repubs fought it tooth and nail and made sure chunks of it were removed.

[Teebone]

A more realistic example is something like this:

I get kicked off my health insurance because ACA gets repealed. One day I notice a pain in my neck. I don't go to the doctor because I don't have health insurance. Live with this pain for several years, because I don't have health insurance. Eventually the pain is so bad that I go to the doctor. I have a tumor on my spinal cord. If I went to the doctor 3 years ago, I could have caught this and treated it. But it's too late. The cancer has spread. Now I'm going to die in a few months.

That shit will absolutely happen if people get kicked off their health insurance plans.

This shit absolutely DID happen before a lot of people actually COULD get insurance.

[Vizardlorde]

After dealing with insurance and working in insurance I have yet to see the great efficiency of private insurance vs single payer. Medical life saving procedures and prescriptions take half a month to be approved. Meanwhile in 3rd world Cuba the same procedure is done immediately.

[unfilteredJW]

After dealing with insurance and working in insurance I have yet to see the great efficiency of private insurance vs single payer. Medical life saving procedures and prescriptions take half a month to be approved. Meanwhile in 3rd world Cuba the same procedure is done immediately.

American exceptionalism in action.