Nighthold difficulty

[Spotnick]

I think people are delusional when it comes to the amount of people they think have more than 35 traits.

That would be an interesting stat to have.

I'm 9/10M and at 39 traits, and I have done the raids in all difficulties all xpac so far and never missed one single emissary.. just avoiding mythic+ like the plague.

[Moshots]

I mean my guild is 7/7m 2/3m and I only have 36 traits in my weapon...

That sounds like a personal issue though..

My alt has a grand total of 56 Mythic+ done and has 36 Arcane 32 Fire..... Just off clearing Heroic and normal like 50% of the weeks since EN came out.

Getting 1-40 right now is something you can do in a few days now.. at 250k per 7-9 you can farm 1 million AP an hour. just grinding maws. Meaning you would get 1-35 in under a day. and 35-40 in about the same.

[Deleted]

There is 0% chance they make another Helya. That was not just hard. Was overtunned and poorly designed for any non hardcore guild...

It was easily the best designed boss in wod and legion so far except for gorefiend. Only "problem" was the absence of a nerf over time (stronger than the artifact traits) which won't be a problem in nighthold or any raid thereafter cause of higher ilvl jumps/more bosses/tier sets.

[Hctaz]

That sounds like a personal issue though..

My alt has a grand total of 56 Mythic+ done and has 36 Arcane 32 Fire..... Just off clearing Heroic and normal like 50% of the weeks since EN came out.

Getting 1-40 right now is something you can do in a few days now.. at 250k per 7-9 you can farm 1 million AP an hour. just grinding maws. Meaning you would get 1-35 in under a day. and 35-40 in about the same.

Well... I think the average in my guild is 40-41 traits. Still pretty "low" and I don't think we're going to really have issues with Mythic NH.

[Moshots]

Well... I think the average in my guild is 40-41 traits. Still pretty "low" and I don't think we're going to really have issues with Mythic NH.

No like I said Any guild that isn't planning on finishing top 50 US will get 3-4 extra clears to farm gear before ever fighting guldan and those 3-4 clears will most likely make up for any deficit in traits.... Not to mention AP is gonna be even easier to get with..

Normal-Mythic EN
Normal-Mythic TOV
Normal-Mythic NH

all dropping it.

I do expect it to be balanced around having 54 traits though if your doing it with 905+ ilvl and 4 set on every raider.

[Deleted]

Definitely going to be balanced around max traits same as Archimonde was balanced around having legendary ring.

[kamuimac]

As other have said, the retarded Legion design when it comes to gear power means that the raid will be either vastly undertuned, or vastly overtuned, or a mix of overtuned and undertuned.
It's just not possible to tune a raid adequately with something like a 30 % in power variance.

legion tuning was ok in begining and then ocd retards who spend 70 % of first month in mythic + started to whine that its too easy - and blizzard bend to please 1% thats why we ended up with shitshow that tov was overtuned to the sky

i bet nightold will be retardly overtuned too and will end up as complete fiasco just like tov did. but who knows.

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I think people are delusional when it comes to the amount of people they think have more than 35 traits.

definetly but mmochmapion never was good reprezentation of actual playerbase with how 90 % of people here are ither former or current mythic raiders.

normal nh should be tuned around 855 and hc shoudl be tuned around 865-870 itlv and mythic overtuned to the sky to give people who want chalenge chalenge - sadly blizzard hasnt tuned difficulty correckly since flex SoO.

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How can they tune it around 35 traits tho? Every guild in the top 100 has a raid full of lvl 54 raiders right now....

and they shoudl so that peopel with ocd issues dont affect 99,9 % of playerbase. next tiem they will learn to not farm instances to the deaths.

[Deleted]

Whoa, let's not get ahead of ourselves. We want the Mythic progression race to last at least three hours.

i think we did it in 5 pulls. at least one of us had read tacs/watched a video

[Akka]

you mean like ~10% right? cos anyone who wants to enter mythic NH has to have at least 35 by now, i got that on my alt druid and i literally do nothing but a +12 for the chest every week.

You realize there is going to be other difficulties than NH, and they also have to take into account new people joining during the course of the expansion ?
30 % is actually a pretty conservative estimate.

[ping-pong]

So, you guys want to raid at highest level (Mythic endboss that just gets out)... but can't be bothered to prepare for it? The design is at fault, it shouldn't be hard! New mythic endboss must be accessible to casual Joe who plays on Tuesdays from 21-23h.

Mythic is meant for people that play hardcore. It's tuned for them. If you are not hardcore, you will get there eventually, but you can't expect to get remotely close to the race without putting much effort.

[Deleted]

Heroics will never be a problem for real mythic raiding guilds that cleared all the content on mythic before the next instance opens up. Anything below that will probably struggle on a few bosses, but I don't see them not being able to clear it either, though they might not be able to do it fully in splits.

For current heroic raiders, I don't see you getting very far in heroic, probably best to go normal first to get some needed upgrades.

Things can always be undertuned or overtuned too, but you shouldn't really worry too much about that, it's not something you have control over.

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How can they tune it around 35 traits tho? Every guild in the top 100 has a raid full of lvl 54 raiders right now....unless they want the raid to die in 1 day like EN, which I doubt they do. Even my casual guild myself included has a lot of raiders that are 45+. It's just not logical at all to tune for anything less than 54 if we're talking about the later mythic bosses.

Because they aren't going to tune it around 54 traits. It's that simple, doesn't mean that you have 54 traits you play like someone with 54 traits. On warcraftlogs there's many players with 54 traits that play like they have 35 traits. If blizzard would balance around 54 traits, I'm fairly sure the majority outside the top 100 is going to have a horrible time on mythic.

I would assume like always, similar to ilvl scaling up the further in you get in a raid, that the bonus trait scaling will be exactly the same.

Ie the first 3 bosses on mythic could be balanced around 35 traits, the next 3 around 40 and so on.

I just really hope they balance mythic gul'dan well, because they have to assume that pretty much everyone that gets there will have 54 traits, slower guilds especially.

[shaunika123]

You realize there is going to be other difficulties than NH, and they also have to take into account new people joining during the course of the expansion ?
30 % is actually a pretty conservative estimate.

i was talking mythic specifically

obviously heroic is gonna be balanced around 30-35 points at most
the final 1-3 bosses of NH are almost definitely gonna be balanced around 54 points, it's not even really a question

[Auru]

Whats the big deal here?

Everything in Nighthold will get killed, probably see some boss hotfixes just like in most raids

If you aren't geared enough to kill everything, so be it.. thats how the game works

If you want to kill everything, get the gear and traits needed

[Deleted]

This is a problem though.

Mythic Ilgynoth, for example, was tuned probably at ilevel 880 with <35 traits.

When you and I hit Mythic Ilgynoth, we were likely around 885-890, with 35-40 traits on your raiders. The fact that we aren't as skilled as the top guilds means that we use gear and artifact traits to "nerf" the content so that it can be done.

If Mythic NH is tuned around 54 traits, full NH gear and BiS legendaries, there is nowhere for us to go. We might get maybe 2-3 ilevels from having ilevel 940 legendaries rather than 910's a few months from now, but the overall gear between us and the top guilds are already minimal due to titanforging.

Top guilds are going to walk into mythic NH with gear very similar to what we, being months behind, are going to walk into mythic NH with. You will see Blizzard nerfs to bosses, and imo that's the worst feeling ever - to kill things post-nerf.

Exactly, but they said 7.2 is dropping halfway Nighthold.

So what I expect is that with 7.2, everyone gets buffed so the raid becomes doable for most people.
But before 7.2 drops, most guilds will be stuck halfway.

[Yunzi]

This is a problem though.

Top guilds are going to walk into mythic NH with gear very similar to what we, being months behind, are going to walk into mythic NH with. You will see Blizzard nerfs to bosses, and imo that's the worst feeling ever - to kill things post-nerf.

What Blizzard really really should do is to *save* all of the different tuning levels for all raids/dungeons. And then there's a "challenge mode" where you can select which build you want - more difficult builds can then give higher rewards.

There's no reason why a boss nerf should mean an *end* to being able to do that content - the pre-nerf tuning should always be selectable in challenge mode.

[mistahwilshire]

I'd expect at least the back half of the raid to be on the over tuned side to avoid the horrible situation that happened with Xavius falling over instantly. I have no problems with it at all if that's the way they go. I'd like to be smashing my face in to this thing for at least 3 weeks. Overtuned is much better than undertuned.

[antelope591]

Heroics will never be a problem for real mythic raiding guilds that cleared all the content on mythic before the next instance opens up. Anything below that will probably struggle on a few bosses, but I don't see them not being able to clear it either, though they might not be able to do it fully in splits.

For current heroic raiders, I don't see you getting very far in heroic, probably best to go normal first to get some needed upgrades.

Things can always be undertuned or overtuned too, but you shouldn't really worry too much about that, it's not something you have control over.

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Because they aren't going to tune it around 54 traits. It's that simple, doesn't mean that you have 54 traits you play like someone with 54 traits. On warcraftlogs there's many players with 54 traits that play like they have 35 traits. If blizzard would balance around 54 traits, I'm fairly sure the majority outside the top 100 is going to have a horrible time on mythic.

I would assume like always, similar to ilvl scaling up the further in you get in a raid, that the bonus trait scaling will be exactly the same.

Ie the first 3 bosses on mythic could be balanced around 35 traits, the next 3 around 40 and so on.

I just really hope they balance mythic gul'dan well, because they have to assume that pretty much everyone that gets there will have 54 traits, slower guilds especially.

Well, obviously not every boss will be tuned like that. I was mainly talking about the later half of the instance. Like every big raid, first half will be easier then last few bosses hard enough to not be killed outside of top guilds until some nerfs come in.

[Tatahe]

You should never skip normal... Even Progression guild will do 1-4 clears of split normals. normal is still 875 tier gear... I'd drop 10 ilvl on 4 pieces to gain 10% damage right now easily.....

and as to helya It was released 2 weeks too early. If it had been released a few weeks later it was fine... Its only a 300 pull boss once everyone in raid has 40+talents. its just guilds were barely hitting 35 when it came out... Its on par with Archimonde.

Usually top guild after doing their split heroic runs they do anether split on normal just to complete that 4p for everybody who didn't get their 4p on the heroics splits. I'm not saying doing normal is a waste of time but if your time is tight you should just start heroic and if you have time to spare go to normal after that.

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It was easily the best designed boss in wod and legion so far except for gorefiend. Only "problem" was the absence of a nerf over time (stronger than the artifact traits) which won't be a problem in nighthold or any raid thereafter cause of higher ilvl jumps/more bosses/tier sets.

Well if you enjoy Helya good for you. I really enjoy Odyn. Guatm was not bad either. All 7 EN bosses were awful imo. Impregnator in WoD was really good, also Gore and even Archimonde was decent ish.

Helya was a fight that actually require to stack classes even for softcore guilds. That's poor design imo. You need classes that have large aoe like barrage or sindragosa breath or have 2 prot warriors and stack fire mages/ ele shammys. And last phase you also need stupid burst like sp, sp or sp LUL

Not counting you can't 5 heal it cause dps not high enought and you need 5 priest to deal with dispells... How is that fun for anybody?

[Osmeric]

I feel like it might be a tad on the easy side after the whole ToV fiasco, but then again this is Blizzard.
They just throw darts at a wall to balance difficulty

They don't seem to fire people for screwing up, so screw ups keep happening.

[Tatahe]

Definitely going to be balanced around max traits same as Archimonde was balanced around having legendary ring.

Difference is that they knew top guilds will take 3+ weeks to get their rings. Now they all have full 54 rooster. I mean for whe mythic NH opens everybody will be 54+. Most of us got 54 2-3 weeks ago...