Thread: +35 sucks!

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  1. #301
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kezotar View Post
    Endless cycle of repeating something is not content.
    Most games revolve around repeating stuff. Matches (in the case of MOBAs and shooters) or quests/raids in the case of MMOs.
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  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by spaceape View Post
    wtf you need over 35 then?
    For teh lols?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  3. #303
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    It's almost as if there could be a middle ground between nothing and farming mindlessly forever.
    AP is a reward, as I've said like 5 times in this thread, from everything in the game, from the easiest to the hardest, most challenging content. If you're taking the easiest route, then the "mindless grind" is your problem.

    I get plenty of AP from heroic raiding with my guild and the occasional mythic and heroic dungeon. It's not too difficult, but it's not mind-numbingly easy, either. It's just right for me.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    I don't get why people can't see AP like this: Weapon upgrade

    Example: You were in Highmaul, got a weapon from a boss. Then you do BRF 2 months later, get a weapon wich is a lets say 6.5% upgrade.

    Same thing with artifact weapons and AP-grind, its just a more predictable upgrade to get.

    To upgrade a weapon on how much you want/feel/have time for, isn't it awesome? Instead of hoping for that one out of 7 bosses wich got the weapon-upgrade you need, wich you share with 4 other players?
    Relics are new weapon drops. Besides, the weapon from BRF were gated to drop 2 months later (as relics are) and wouldn't require such amount of unfun activities. Yes, I know, "why not wait higher AK and get 1 trait nearly every day", but that is equivalent to "why not wait 'til 7.2 and get that mythic EN loot". If you're not competitive that's fine, other way - definitely not.

  5. #305
    I love the AP system. At first, I enjoyed it a lot, doing as much m+ as possible. Then, I stopped being that fun (still fun though), so I scaled back. Lvl 43 atm. Doing my key until 12-13, my bros, maybe 2-3 more, and thats it. It really is easy with ap 25. It boggles my mind that people feel that they need to do it. Top 200, yes, the rest? Nope.

  6. #306
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    So what you're saying is that unless you have to sweat blood for every single reward, it's trivial and worthless?

    You know, I just met someone last night in a dungeon on a level 100, a disc priest who didn't even know how to heal as disc (just spammed shadow mend like crazy). He had never heard of atonement or the mechanics. Thinking about him makes me realize there is a wide variety of players. What you find trivial he probably doesn't.

    At any rate, the best gear, as always, is gated behind top-tier raiding and, this expansion, higher and higher Mythic+ levels. The challenge is out there to find.
    Perhaps, sweating blood gets that dopamine flowing and makes it feel good ya know!

    For that 100 priest, soon he will graduate to level 110 and start craving that blood too, we all do man, we all do...

    The top gear is cool, but it's more about the content validity, Mythic is out of the "care zone" for the average people, but then even if it was - the next patch just makes it worthless anyway. We went from expansion-level resets (e.g WOTLK greens making TBC obsolete, which is fine) to patch-level where new catchup etc that makes the previous patch redundant, either by making it trivial enough through overgearing or obsolete fullstop. It has this almost gloomy feeling about it, where everything you do feels worthless, pointless even and people eventually don't even care about Ilvl anymore so they just quit. (Why would the avg player care about Ilvl when in the near future he can just zerg it down anyway?)

    And that's why Blizzard added so much RNG via WF/TF/Legendary, so people stick around pulling the lever longer - because all the other content the average person does was either made obsolete, or trivial.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by madmonarch View Post
    Relics are new weapon drops. Besides, the weapon from BRF were gated to drop 2 months later (as relics are) and wouldn't require such amount of unfun activities. Yes, I know, "why not wait higher AK and get 1 trait nearly every day", but that is equivalent to "why not wait 'til 7.2 and get that mythic EN loot". If you're not competitive that's fine, other way - definitely not.
    True the relicpart no doubt, but thats rng as well. You can see it as the rng weapon-drop and the artifact power grind as the steady one. And as of waiting, those with max trait, they actually have to wait till 7.2 for some upgrade.

    I am casual, I rerolled main unfortunatly but if I didnt I would be on like 45 traits now. Being 2.5% dmg behind a mythic raider, something I could live with. Heck, even 5%.

    It's all about how you see it I guess. I see your points

  8. #308
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    It's almost as if there could be a middle ground between nothing and farming mindlessly forever.
    Im not really sure their is to honest. The basic principle behind the complaint is simple unfair. Why should every one else who isnt some weekend warrior try hard raid logger have to have their rewards balanced so that the try hards dont feel put out? Throwing them under the bus was the least the developers could do. Frankly they dont go far enough.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #309
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Most games revolve around repeating stuff. Matches (in the case of MOBAs and shooters) or quests/raids in the case of MMOs.
    Endless cycle is still not content.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kezotar View Post
    Endless cycle is still not content.
    Well no, the content is content. The grind is just something extra to do on the side to keep some people entertained. Not everybody enjoys endlessly farming AP while others absolutely love it.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I seem to remember an expansion ago that people complained there was nothing to do.
    The amount of stuff to do in Legion isn't really much higher than it was in WoD, they just made the pool of repeatable dailies bigger by including leveling quests. The only real thing Legion has introduced is Mythic+ dungeons. It's still far below the amount of stuff to do there was pre-WoD.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I seem to remember an expansion ago that people complained there was nothing to do.

    Man, it's impossible to please people.
    Yeah, it really is impossible to think beyond your limited mental framework. There is a huge range of topics between "nothing<->endless grinding" and there's an incredible range of topics when we're talking about "what" exactly players enjoy doing, and which content is considered fulfilling. It's safe to say that running hundreds upon hundreds of sub 20 minute repetitions of the same scripted content for months in a row isn't meaningful or fulfilling at all.
    Mythic+ is the most successful version of a virtual Skinner box that has been implemented in this game.

    But that takes some mental effort and is not as easy as just trolling. I'd expect a lot better from a Super Moderator. Regular visitors on these boards have been infracted for a lot less, while adding a much more meaningful contribution to the discussion.
    Last edited by mmoc112630d291; 2017-01-18 at 10:17 AM.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    The top gear is cool, but it's more about the content validity, Mythic is out of the "care zone" for the average people, but then even if it was - the next patch just makes it worthless anyway. We went from expansion-level resets (e.g WOTLK greens making TBC obsolete, which is fine) to patch-level where new catchup etc that makes the previous patch redundant, either by making it trivial enough through overgearing or obsolete fullstop. It has this almost gloomy feeling about it, where everything you do feels worthless, pointless even and people eventually don't even care about Ilvl anymore so they just quit. (Why would the avg player care about Ilvl when in the near future he can just zerg it down anyway?)
    That's been the bane of WoW since 3.2 (and there was already some ugly happening in late TBC with badge gear), and they never managed to get around fixing it.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    You know, trivial content is no substitute for real content. As for your previous expansion part;

    WoD = Every one and their mom was getting full welfare Baleful and PVP Gear which made all content basically worthless in reward/enjoyment. The content was essentially obsolete so there was nothing to do.

    Legion = YES! World Quest Netflix garbage and other trivial grinding garbage added. Basically worthless in terms of enjoyment too.

    Trivial content is on par with obsolete content IMO. Worthless
    When in the history in WoW have activities outside of raiding not been "trivial" based on that description? Honestly, at what stage did we have anything outside of raiding to do anything meaningful towards character progression, as that's what your definition of content seems to be. Back in Vanilla/TBC you would endlessly farm rep for a trinket that would soon be replaced in AQ/Naxx/BT, alongside with other blue upgrades that would be replaced just as easily, so that's trivial content? Throughout WOTLK/Cata you had the exact same thing, you could go over to the Argent Tournament Grounds and endlessly farm Champion's Seals for subpar items that were replaced in TOTC, so again trivial.

    It's always revolved around raiding as being the core focus on the game, sure we have had some cool PVP areas, that's probably the extent of it though.

    So when it the history of the game have we had "non-trivial" content in your eyes?

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexeht View Post
    I heard same excuse for a weak grindy content when MoP dailies came ...
    When are people gong to take some responsibility for their behaviour?

    There is a group of WoW players who seem to be absolutely insistent onj doing absolutely everything to improve their character all the time with no exceptions even if they find it horribly boring. If you are a full on top 100 raider, I get it, thats what you sign up for, you just have to deal with it, but everyone else really just needs to calm down and stop doing this crap to themselves.

  16. #316
    Deleted
    I play my main character very casually for some weeks now, only running emissary chest and warden tower quests and occasional heroic dungeons and LFR, because I want to finish as many of other classes' OH campaigns and OH class sets as possible before 2.0 hits. I have reached the last AR level in the first days of January, and now I am finished will all my 3 weapons and start investing AP into my main weapon for the new traits incoming later. I have not done many mythic dungeons (but each one at least once, including Karazhan), and have not farmed AP much.

    It is a grind, and it shows on my alts to an extent, but I would not throw a fit about it. This is a casual PoV, of course - but I would guess that people with a more hardcore approach to the game and a stronger concentration on their main character should have even less problems with AP accumulation, since harder content usually also rewards better AP tokens.
    Last edited by mmoceb1073a651; 2017-01-18 at 10:45 AM.

  17. #317
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    Raid with the guild 3 times a week, do a couple of mythics and mythic plus and couple of WQs and im on 46

  18. #318
    Stood in the Fire Cerunnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    The +35 grind killed most of the 'fun' I used to have from this game .. A s a casual player I used to play many hours a week across multiple toons .. That's all gone now .. Simply knowing my character is inferior as well as I need to grind until my eyes bleed simply SUCKS!

    I loved the fact raiding meant better gear .. I loved the fact that higher PvP rating meant better gear .. That is all the work I think should be required to max power your character .. Adding AK grind was bad for the game .. ON TOP OF THAT SHIT they add +35 more points for 14.5% more stats or damage was it?!

    I bet play time has dropped for many players, and if they keep this Asian grind fest pretty sure subs gonna follow and fall ...

    Man it feels like NCSoft has taken over Acti-Blizz!
    Don't grind it then. I just let it come naturally while doing content.
    Cerunnir - Frost/Blood Death Knight

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    That's been the bane of WoW since 3.2 (and there was already some ugly happening in late TBC with badge gear), and they never managed to get around fixing it.
    The alternative is even worse though: people who fall behind just give up (and many probably unsub). Raid progression in TBC failed spectacularly at keeping most players engaged.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Dangg View Post
    For the several past expansions it was possible to have your main character optimally prepared for raiding without a permanent grinding timesink.
    Perfectly understandable the playerbase is complaining about getting that destroyed instead of bending backwards to whatever the developer is doing.
    Yeeeeeep, that's the problem. I've allways been a raider at hearth, not super hardcore, realy, but allways TRIED to clear current content at the relevant time. In vanila i did 3 bosses in naxx in TBC i killed KJ, in Wrath i got Arthas HC, Cata / MoP, didn't play, in WoD i got 10/12 mythic, guild disbanded and eventualy got 12/12 before Legion launched. And gues what, did all that by raiding 12 hours a week.

    In legion i said i'd take it even easier, joined a M TWO DAY A WEEK guild and am 7/7M and 2/3M, yes, by raiding 2 days a week. Endgame raiding has never EVER required a serios time comitement outside of the world first race....... and now it does. Problem is our guild is also quite large, raiding roster consists of about 30-35 people. Specificaly BECAUSE we all want a guild with less time constraints we have replacements.

    But ofc there are those who are allready 54/54 and gues what, they'll get prio. I'm not in danger of loosing my guild or anything, the guild isn't enforcing we farm, but ofc for progress you take every advantage you get. And it's not only that but i also personaly feel bad if for the sake of inclusion or "fairness" i raid while someone who is 54/54 is benched. So let's say i get a an hour or two in of play every night and 5 hours thurs and sunday, as planned. At ak 25, doing daily's thats about 750k AP average, DHC 100k, a mythic 10+ is 300k, maybe do an extra M (tho it takes like an hour / M as dps, the dungeon takes like 15 mins, finding a grp is... hell) maybe there's more AP on the map than usual, thats about 1-1.5M / AP day, add in the AP from raids, maybe a couple extra hours on the weeked thats STILL anywhere from a month to two months to get 60M cunting AP.... for one weapon... and i'm a fucking warlock....

    I'd say there's a pretty big problem when time = power. Might sound condescending or stupid to some, but raids are SPECIFICALY gated, weekly for that very reason.... but M+ (titanforge) and AP arn't.... who the FUCK ever thought a compleetly open ended progression system was a good idea i'll never understand... this the kinda bullshit that led to people OUTGEARING EN on opening week... and now we have that again, except now it's not gear, it's AP
    Last edited by PowerOfTwo; 2017-01-18 at 01:10 PM.

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