Havoc PvP 7.1.5

[Cymorìl]

I think we're at the same point to previous patch in ST dmg, they gave us a CC without having to use a talent but we lost del rush reset on blur. At this point I don't know if chaos cleave is better then first blood...

[Emophia]

I'd think bloodlet.

overall agility reduction 33% or something..

A source on this? I call bullshit that would be way to insane of a nerf.

[Cymorìl]

I'd think bloodlet.



A source on this? I call bullshit that would be way to insane of a nerf.

I took a screenshot of character before arena and in arena, and I can confirm we have, in our pvp template, 33% lesser agility but also a boost to our stamina. I'd rather prefer lesser stamina and more agi to compensate dmg.

[Appelgren]

patiently waiting for a post and possible reasoning, seems like an over-reaction, classic blizz style though.

Being insanely overpowered is the reasoning...

[Resentless]

That's why you stun them in the radius if you know they can get out of it. These are the kinds of things the game needs more of, not less. Demon Hunter already has too little intelligent mechanics as it is. I'm not saying it's faceroll, but it does have very little in the way of allowing you to set yourself apart from other players or adapt to situations or use your tools in a specific way to make them more effective.

Demon Hunters do not lack damage. They are a bit low on CC but that is fine as they are not meant to be a control class. They do far more damage than Monks, Warriors (warriors just do nooo damage now), Rets, Rogues, etc. The only melee really lose out to are DK's (who are broken right now) and Feral (only if the game goes on long enough).

The only problem with DH damage is that they don't really fit a niche with their damage. Their damage is very high, but that doesn't mean they will get a kill. Compare that to DK's who just do ridiculous constant heavy damage that will eventually take someone down if you aren't controlling them correctly. Or compare that to Monks who have crazy medium-CD burst and then do no damage. The DH will do more damage overall than the monk but the monk just needs to blast someone in a window to get a kill. DH does heavy consistent pressure for a while and during this time it is the most in the game, however they don't have the short duration burst to get a quick setup kill like monks and they don't have quite as much consistent, raw, overbearing damage like DK's have.

You shouldn't quit pvp over this, that's silly. PvP is really getting quite balanced right now. It's crazy to me that people get upset over nerfs to their favorite class when overall the game is so healthy right now. Keep in there, it's really not that big a deal. DH is fine, other classes are about to be nerfed, and DH is still viable. I think most of all people just need to find the right comp for it.

Well, although I was super excited for this patch and had been saying we would get day 1 nerfed for months, I do think all in all these nerfs were just a bit too much. I understand chaos blades nerf is also going to be a pve nerf, but honestly just the mana break nerf (which should have been nerfed on the god damn ptr, how did they think a 15% max hp talent on a 1 min cd would be balanced? I don't get it. I knew that would be the problem but they did nothing despite the warnings, and now we received another 3 nerfs on top of that, makes me so mad) would have been enough alongside maybe another 7% reduction in agility so we have the same agility as rogues. They gutted first blood which was actually fun to use after using bloodlet for 5 months, and now the playstyle just feels a bit weird. I want to go the old build, so overall with the cc changes it feels like a buff but nemesis+demonic origins is simply better and demon blades is awful in pvp as the legend ring doesn't work and they reduced the chance by 15%... as well as having to use felblade mostly for mobility not for fury gen. Thus im taking demonic apetite, but it all just feels wrong now without first blood.

I was gonna test some more but since the nerfs we are pretty bottom tier melee. Rogues, Frost DK's (how they have escaped the day 2 hotfixes is beyond me, they are doing far more damage than any other class right now), windwalkers, rets, survival and even enhance are all better picks than us at the moment. We are basically weaker monks in every sense. There is now nothing we bring that they dont bring or do better. Warriors are even more desirable despite having 0 damage as they now have an 8 sec disarm to fuck over every other melee. I'm just so mad they had all this time on the ptr and then let us go through like this, when only mana break was the issue and the overall damage buffs we got (I dont understand the template... I thought it was set in stone regardless of whatever pve changes they made like -5% crit and the secondary stat updates... but seems that all went into our template) made us too strong. Just needed a small flat agi nerf and mana break nerf. We would have felt so much better to play and had a niche. Whatever, im levelling my frost dk alt anyhow since knowing blizzard they wont revert the first blood nerf and wont change shit all else. Sigh.

edit: Oh, and as for comp, well the only thing I can think of now besides queuing with a frost dk and letting him kill someone while we imprison every 15 seconds is playing with an affliction lock or shadow priest and rotting a team down, although I don't see either surviving against rets and dks for very long.

and rogues especially*

[Moarbacon]

Well, although I was super excited for this patch and had been saying we would get day 1 nerfed for months, I do think all in all these nerfs were just a bit too much. I understand chaos blades nerf is also going to be a pve nerf, but honestly just the mana break nerf (which should have been nerfed on the god damn ptr, how did they think a 15% max hp talent on a 1 min cd would be balanced? I don't get it. I knew that would be the problem but they did nothing despite the warnings, and now we received another 3 nerfs on top of that, makes me so mad) would have been enough alongside maybe another 7% reduction in agility so we have the same agility as rogues. They gutted first blood which was actually fun to use after using bloodlet for 5 months, and now the playstyle just feels a bit weird. I want to go the old build, so overall with the cc changes it feels like a buff but nemesis+demonic origins is simply better and demon blades is awful in pvp as the legend ring doesn't work and they reduced the chance by 15%... as well as having to use felblade mostly for mobility not for fury gen. Thus im taking demonic apetite, but it all just feels wrong now without first blood.

I was gonna test some more but since the nerfs we are pretty bottom tier melee. Rogues, Frost DK's (how they have escaped the day 2 hotfixes is beyond me, they are doing far more damage than any other class right now), windwalkers, rets, survival and even enhance are all better picks than us at the moment. We are basically weaker monks in every sense. There is now nothing we bring that they dont bring or do better. Warriors are even more desirable despite having 0 damage as they now have an 8 sec disarm to fuck over every other melee. I'm just so mad they had all this time on the ptr and then let us go through like this, when only mana break was the issue and the overall damage buffs we got (I dont understand the template... I thought it was set in stone regardless of whatever pve changes they made like -5% crit and the secondary stat updates... but seems that all went into our template) made us too strong. Just needed a small flat agi nerf and mana break nerf. We would have felt so much better to play and had a niche. Whatever, im levelling my frost dk alt anyhow since knowing blizzard they wont revert the first blood nerf and wont change shit all else. Sigh.

edit: Oh, and as for comp, well the only thing I can think of now besides queuing with a frost dk and letting him kill someone while we imprison every 15 seconds is playing with an affliction lock or shadow priest and rotting a team down, although I don't see either surviving against rets and dks for very long.

and rogues especially*

First blood is still plenty viable especially with 2 minute meta on the table for those death sweep bombs. Even without mana break our damage was over the top. To top all that off more nerfs are coming for other classes, just not yet finalized. I still think we're one of the better melees, we just aren't hitting mindlessly hard now.

[Cymorìl]

First blood is the same of 7.1 so I don't think it's a viable choice. At this point I really don't know if chaos cleave can outperform bloodlet, throw glaives doesn't cost fury so we shouldn't feel resources starved, Chaos cleave maybe hits harder and without bloodlet we don't have dots on a target so we can imprison everyone we need to.
I don't think we are way better in terms of dmg than 7.1, maybe just a very very little...

[Moarbacon]

First blood is the same of 7.1 so I don't think it's a viable choice. At this point I really don't know if chaos cleave can outperform bloodlet, throw glaives doesn't cost fury so we shouldn't feel resources starved, Chaos cleave maybe hits harder and without bloodlet we don't have dots on a target so we can imprison everyone we need to.
I don't think we are way better in terms of dmg than 7.1, maybe just a very very little...

Tried FB and you might be right, it is pretty bad. Even so though our damage is still quite a bit higher than 7.1. I'm currently messing around between cc and bloodlet to see what feels better, so far leaning towards CC if i want to train 1 target.

One thing to mention is that I've also been messing with ROA as a damage cd rather than saving it for survivability, while it seems like most damage cds don't affect it, nemesis does. I've been able to put out some absurd pressure with it and land kills pretty reliably. 300k per lance + 3-5 lanes per ROA.

Not sure if this is intended or not, could be a bug, but it's nice regardless.

[Deleted]

ROA as a damage cd rather than saving it for survivability

I assume you're talking about Rain from Above?
I messed extensively around with it in 7.0 and 7.1, but the fact everyone can sprint and los it with minimal cd usage or just land a CC on me had me thinking that as cool as it looks it only works against inexperienced players who would just stand there and take it.
In my opinion it would be more usable with a little splash aoe.

Still though the most fun I had with the talent was getting those aerial duels with other DHs, sometimes ignoring everything else that was happening in the arena.

This class surely delivers.

[Moarbacon]

I assume you're talking about Rain from Above?
I messed extensively around with it in 7.0 and 7.1, but the fact everyone can sprint and los it with minimal cd usage or just land a CC on me had me thinking that as cool as it looks it only works against inexperienced players who would just stand there and take it.
In my opinion it would be more usable with a little splash aoe.

Still though the most fun I had with the talent was getting those aerial duels with other DHs, sometimes ignoring everything else that was happening in the arena.

This class surely delivers.

eh, some classes will struggle if you slow them or distract them, it's not perfect but a good one can deal some nasty damage. It can work on experienced players as well, even if you don't manage to get all of the lances off, even 1 with cd's popped is in the vicinity of 300k damage. It's also a nice root break.

[Snegovik]

Hotfixes in -

Player versus Player

Demon Hunter
-First Blood's additional damage in PvP situations has been reduced to 100% additional damage (was 200%).
-

Can you please provide link of source to the pvp templates/source to above info ? (so f hard to find them >.<) thank you.

[iamthedevil]

Can you please provide link of source to the pvp templates/source to above info ? (so f hard to find them >.<) thank you.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...xes-january-13

also

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752541534

[Snegovik]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...xes-january-13

also

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752541534

Thank you sir, much appreciated.

[fallenguard]

Glad xp war, 2.6k dk, 2.2k+ almost every other melee class, 2.1k cr 3s dh atm.

In arena at least, 2-2-3-2or3-3-1-1. First blood isn't worth taking after the pvp nerf: "First Blood's additional damage in PvP situations has been reduced to 100% additional damage (was 200%)". Fel barrage may compete with chaos blades after -> "Chaos Blades now increases autoattack damage by 150% (down from 200%)" goes into effect as well, especially against teams with two melee that will be grouped up a lot. I was playing around a bit with fel eruption but the damage is pretty bad in pvp, although the stun is okay if you don't play with people who will dr it.. typically I just use nemesis though as the cd syncs well with meta when you take demonic origins.

For pvp talents what I usually use is 1-2-1-2-1-1. Solitude works great when you're doing threes with a caster. Obviously you wouldn't take it if you're doing a melee cleave under normal circumstances.. unless you plan on splitting targets. While eye of leotheras looks nice it can be dispelled easily (unless you're doing 2s against two classes that can't dispel, then it might be worth it) and reverse magic is clutch for cc's on your healer and especially great for ua locks. The extra baseline dmg from demonic origins and a meta with every chaos blades/nemesis makes demonic origins hard to pass up, but if you're getting focused a lot you can take awaken the demon within. Mana rift isn't really useful in arena and mana break is awful after the nerfs. Rain from above should pretty much never be used in 3s or rbgs making detainment the default choice.

- - - Updated - - -

I really hope this... I've read about these nerfs on us.battle.net forums, many ppl says is a stealth nerf. Chaos blades down to 150% in pvp they said, I really don't know where they've read about this change.
I think that fury gen is ok if you have a spender like first blood who costs only 15 fury, many times I use it while CS is not available. If first blood will not be viable, maybe we can feel resource starved.

Pulled straight from wowarmory.

"Mana Break now deals 5% of the target's health in damage base, up to 25% if they have 0% remaining mana.

First Blood's additional damage in PvP situations has been reduced to 100% additional damage (was 200%).

Fury of the Illidari deals 30% less damage in PvP situations. This also reduces the amount of damage that Rage of the Illidari will deal to targets.

The additional auto-attack damage of Chaos Blades in PvP situations has been reduced to 150% additional damage (was 200%)."

[Mineral4r7s]

yes have some very situational fun in bgs with it

IF this is true then rain might be more broken than mana break was. I will have to test this when I have a chance to confirm it.

[Snegovik]

What u guys think about build 2223313 for when you are getting trained hard by melee clvs in 3s or melee in 2s? I mostly use it in BGs or rarely in RBGs on maps like AB where I solo enemy bases and cap them, so purely defensive spec. Dmg isn't as great.as bloodlet and CB but I rarely die

[Moarbacon]

What u guys think about build 2223313 for when you are getting trained hard by melee clvs in 3s or melee in 2s? I mostly use it in BGs or rarely in RBGs on maps like AB where I solo enemy bases and cap them, so purely defensive spec. Dmg isn't as great.as bloodlet and CB but I rarely die

First blood is sadly pretty bad now. After the nerf it's returned to 7.1 levels of damage. Bloodlet will beat it out consistently, and chaos cleave is...okay at best.

I've been running with two builds with some success, a core build of 2232311, and a demonic build of 3233313, you can run demonic appetite in the demonic build but there typically aren't enough soul fragments to make a massive difference. Demonic has decent pressure but getting kicked will counter you.

Otherwise, right now I'd almost suggest a reroll. We are better than we were 7.1, but we're still not where we need to be. We were but blizzard's knee jerky balance style has unfortunately done us in.

[Cymorìl]

In last patch notes we had a 5% nerf in agility template, down from 85 to 80 but I saw a -33% before arena and in arena. What I'm missing?

Inviato dal mio Redmi Note 3 utilizzando Tapatalk

[Deleted]

In last patch notes we had a 5% nerf in agility template, down from 85 to 80 but I saw a -33% before arena and in arena. What I'm missing?

Inviato dal mio Redmi Note 3 utilizzando Tapatalk

Your template has set amount of agility and lower than you normally have. If your template had no nerfs to agility it would still be lower than outside of pvp instances. And that amount got nerfed