Jennifer Holliday: "I sincerely apologize for my lapse of judgement"

[Dextroden]

Well, I think there are bad actors in every community. That includes in the LGBT, Black, White, Left, Right, Trump Supporters... etc. Some people like causing chaos, and like watching people get angry at each other.

I think acknowledging that no community is perfect, is probably the first step to healing.

Otherwise we get a vicious circle of slights being committed by either side, where they think that *they* are the good guy.

That's not going to happen for a long time. A lot of people need the moral high ground of "being good people" to make it possible to justify being gigantic, unapologetic hypocrites. As long as those people exist, the cycle shall continue.

Plus, I will forever quote Love Trumps Hate as the fattest joke I've seen in ages.

[Dextroden]

I think before communities start on this path, people themselves need to get over "good" vs "evil", and accept that almost every person, including themselves are scoundrels.

That does not mean that they than have to act on their bad impulses... that just means they see themselves in a holistic way. Every person has anger, greed, hate, ignorance, judgemental ideas/thoughts, etc... it is how you deal with those emotions that matters, not trying to deny that you have them.

Whether you use religion, philosophy, or some other Ethic/morality system to guide you is probably the first step for the individual, before we start talking about community/tribes.

I point you to the war between the political parties. Romney and his ecomic good men vs. The 45% and the takers. Clinton and her coalition of good people vs. The deplorables and the Ruskies. (And a cartoon frog.)

Both parties, and certain supporters, felt nothing was wrong with what they said but were enflamed by the other. I think both are stupid. And, if I recall, you thought both were fine, with certain caveats.

Our positions don't bother me, since they are consistent and don't fall prey to "My side did it" syndrome. If doing things remained consistently something, we could start changing.

[Dextroden]

I meant factually, Romney was actually right, while Hillary was factually wrong, (the number is probably like 30%), but both were wrong politically. You cannot divide the American people like that, and than try to represent all Americans... it is a bit... idiotic.

But along that line, I do not consider myself "good", or "evil"... I am what I am. Sometimes I say dumb, superficial, hypocritical things. I never claimed I was perfect. I have said many times that I do not take myself, or others seriously though... I like the absurd, and sometimes I say absurd things.

Like I said, certain caveats. I know it isn't a blind yes.

But the people who said it certainly don't think it was a bad idea. Blame it on ego, on thinking the positive outweighed the negatives or that they think no one cared, they ran full forward with the plan.

And morality that the parties put out play into it. Vote for the Defenders of Traditions and the American Way, Republicans. Or the Perservers of Justice and Fairness, the Democrats. And at the end of the day, they both campaign on hoping you think the other is worse, not that they are a better choice.

[Cebel]

Haven't heard of her personally, but this seems over the top.

She seems like she had good intentions, yet she's still pushed into a situation where she feels the need to apologize instead? Seems backwards.

welcome to the democrat party. Where if you dont agree and fall in line, then you're a racist, homophobic, misogynistic pig.

[Amnaught]

My pessimistic side thinks that we will just "split" the country down ideological lines in the long run.

That's what my *optimistic* side says. Imagine if we could just give the confederate assholes their independence from the USA, in turn granting us the independence from their bigotry and outright denial of basic science.

[Dextroden]

I agree that both try to "out virtue" the other. I think the better way is to just explain that they have different perspectives on solving problems. There used to be a time where both sides acknowledged that neither side hated America, wanted the best for the country, etc, so they compromised, worked out deals, solved problems together.

Now, it is an Us vs Them game, where one side tried to outmaneuver the other to "win". It has become a team sport event, Republicans vs Democrats. In the long run this just harms the country, and divides us. It happened during Obama, it will probably happen during Trump. I am not sure how it is going to end, my hope would be that we figure out how to talk to each other again, like decent people. My pessimistic side thinks that we will just "split" the country down ideological lines in the long run.

Yes. Give in to the pessimism.

But seriously. Either people are going to realize death threats are stupid, no matter what. Or things will continue. It's why racism will never be "fixed".

[Miztickow]

And, importantly, all we heard for the past 8 years was BS like Obama wasn't born in America, he is secretly a muslim, etc, etc. Basically, conservatives were extremely disrespectful for 8 solid years...but suddenly, liberals need to respectful and just accept the outcome? My irony meter blows up into tiny shards whenever conservatives talk about that.

Even more importantly is that we are looking at corruption at a massive scale at this point. Hell, Republicans were immediately trying to gut ethics oversight...and now they are focused on using dirty tricks to gut the ACA...for what? The ACA is actually revenue positive (yes, it would actually add to our deficit if we wholesale dumped the ACA)...so the sole purpose of gutting the ACA (to eventually repeal) is nothing more than to kick 20 million of our most vulnerable people onto the no insurance street solely to have a few tens of thousands of super-rich people keep even more of their money while adding debt to the general public. This is not only corruption, this is simply lack of morals anymore.

Imo, everyone needs to learn the term "false equivalency" right now and make it their main talking point against right-wing arguments telling us to shut up.

[ezgeze]

Yeah how dare people give back even an ounce of the absolute hatred that Trump spewed for the entire campaign. Or how dare people give back even a sliver of the 8 years of absolute refusal to come to the Democrats' table.

You all have some really great selective memories. You expect the losers to come to the table when your group didn't do it themselves.

Well you reap what you sow. When you're a vindictive, petty, narcissistic, sociopathic child, shockingly, people aren't going to suddenly come groveling at your feet. Its such laughable hypocrisy on its face.

How about denouncing the hatred the left spewed for the entire campaign as well? Lets not mention the actions of the radical left during the Bush presidency because their actions during that time was everthing but respectful and productive. Oh that's right..........

Also, compromise is a 2 way street. When Obama decided not to talk to any publicans for almost year and a half when he got elected because he didnt need them to pass bills, where were you promoting compromise? How about Obamas decision to use his "pen and phone" to circumvent congress, he was intentionally signaling his unwillingness to "come to the table" and do just that. Again, where were you saying compromise was the best way forward?

Cry me a fucking river, Obama and the left have been using the last 12 years(even more now these past 8) to chop up and divide the country in every measurable demographic and pit them against each other but suddenly through selective amnesia and some ridiculous mental gymnastics its now all on Trumps shoulders.

[Miztickow]

Bullying is 100% WRONG! Unless of course, you're right (or believe you're right) about why you bully a person, then it's an acceptable tactic to employ.



If that's how they want to play it, then that's there choice. But they also give up the moral high ground they pretended to have, by calling the republicans childish, wreckless, irresponsible and everything else and in the end the real losers are the American people who may be looking at more do nothing Govt, as the Dems pay the Republicans back

This is a false equivalency. It has nothing to do with "paying people back". Look at my post a couple pages back about Trump's cabinet. The main point is that most of them are horrible and we have legitimate grounds to oppose them.

[Sky High]

Also, compromise is a 2 way street. When Obama decided to use his "pen and phone" to circumvent congress, he was intentionally signaling his unwillingness to "come to the table" and do just that.

ignoring that congress were the ones that didn't want compromise and when they didn't get everything they wanted they threw a hissy fit.

[Miztickow]

I cannot speak for all LGBT people, but from my point of view, Trump's support for the LGBT community comes off to me (in his convention speech) as using the fear from the Pulse attack, to get gay people to fear Muslims that he will protect us from. Listen to the context he brought up the LGBT community, it was in the same portion he was talking about "protecting" America from Muslims.

Outside of that... His pick for VP, Mike Pence has been against every LGBT protection laws, gay marriage, for DADT, for Gay Conversion Therapy.

Trump on marriage has been wishy washy, one day he supports it, next day he does not, next day it's settled law.

I feel like the current environment LGBT people find themselves on the right, is that of the "red headed stepchild"... which is better than the Pariah we were only 10 or so years ago, which is still enshrined in the GOP platform. We are now treated better, but in a sort of "we will accept you if you don't criticize us" kind of way.

Let's not forget that the current Republican Party stance as of 2016 is to make gay marriage illegal, make it legal to discriminate against gay people, and make it harder if not impossible for gay people to adopt.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, I think there are bad actors in every community. That includes in the LGBT, Black, White, Left, Right, Trump Supporters... etc. Some people like causing chaos, and like watching people get angry at each other.

I think acknowledging that no community is perfect, is probably the first step to healing.

Otherwise we get a vicious circle of slights being committed by either side, where they think that *they* are the good guy.

This is true. The big problem comes though when those bad actors become elected or appointed officials with power over the people they want to hurt.

[Miztickow]

Opera star Andrea Bocelli backs out of singing at Trump's inauguration after receiving death threats

I thought him performing was just a rumor put out by the Drumpf organization after the election and Bocelli said he was never going to perform.

[Miztickow]

Yeah, that was the GOP platform part. It is the most antigay platform to date. They changed it to make it more antigay than it used to be.

The party of self responsibility and small government sure does like telling people how to live. But than again the Democrats have similar authoritarian stances just on different matters. Both parties have been getting more authoritarian.

Yes, but again, this is a false equivalency. You can't legitimately compare making laws to oppress people with making laws stopping people from oppressing people (or stopping polution and people from drinking too much soda with letting cops kill innocent people or whatever other stupid comparisons are made).

[Blacktop Cadence]

Let's not forget that the current Republican Party stance as of 2016 is to make gay marriage illegal, make it legal to discriminate against gay people, and make it harder if not impossible for gay people to adopt.

This is particularly true when it comes to those of us in the trans community. Some Republicans are already demonstrating a willingness to take their issue with us beyond the bathroom. Thankfully, in the case of Indiana, another Republican decided it wasn't a fight worth fighting. Still, laws such as FADA or a ban on changing our documents presents not only safety concerns, but also problems with access to basic services that would require an ID that doesn't look suspect. Throw in the fact that unlike the LGB community we require medical intervention, and it's really not difficult to envision how those in power could really disrupt our lives in any number of ways if they decide to do so.

[ezgeze]

You guys keep demanding that the executive branch be subservient to the legislative branch. That's not how checks and balances work or should work.

Subservient? No. What have under Obama has been the executive branch saying its "pen and phone" is his congress and that because he cannot get his agenda passed without compromising with the right, its his right to just pass it anyways under executive order.

Sorry, that's not how the US government works.

[gugu]

If SCOTUS doesn't stop an executive order, on what grounds to you declare it out of line with the powers granted to the office of the presidency?

It's not even a partisan problem. Or an US problem. The executive feels forced to take unilateral action if the legislative is stacked against the executive. And the legislative feels forced to gridlock when they sense the executive is acting without consensus seeking. Since the check (the judiciary) decides and acts slowly, the executive is also encouraged to pass enough orders to have the checks system busy while in office. The powers are stacked to have an ever growing government, for no valuable reason other than keeping the partisan divide alive.
In that sense, the ground for declaration is where one stands on libertarianism.

Gridlock is a necessary evil in the system you've set up, and something that has been discussed as out of line too. This "you guys did this", and "they guys did that" is only reinforcing ezgeze's point: compromise is a 2 way street.
Your other thread made a case for who is doing it worse, or more often than the other. Is this contention one of those cases?.

[Slicer299]

This is not a statement in support of any political position, but I am still waiting for anyone to provide a single anti LGBTQ quote from Trump. As far as everything I know, he never flip flopped his support for the community like Hillary or Obama did. Both of them openly opposed gay marriage before flipping their position because it was politically necessary to do so. From everything I've ever seen/heard, Trump has always supported things like gay marriage and even spoke in support of pro trans bathroom rules/laws during the campaign.

[TrumpIsPresident]

Sucks that somebody gets death threats because they are going to sing.

I think that's the real serious matter here.

[Blacktop Cadence]

This is not a statement in support of any political position, but I am still waiting for anyone to provide a single anti LGBTQ quote from Trump. As far as everything I know, he never flip flopped his support for the community like Hillary or Obama did. Both of them openly opposed gay marriage before flipping their position because it was politically necessary to do so. From everything I've ever seen/heard, Trump has always supported things like gay marriage and even spoke in support of pro trans bathroom rules/laws during the campaign.

If you ignore the fact that Pence has said he will walk back the DoE guidance on trans students bathroom use and has a pair of of Family Research Council members on his transition team (Kay Cole James and Ken Blackwell, respectively), I suppose this could fly.

[Mad_Murdock]

This is not a statement in support of any political position, but I am still waiting for anyone to provide a single anti LGBTQ quote from Trump. As far as everything I know, he never flip flopped his support for the community like Hillary or Obama did. Both of them openly opposed gay marriage before flipping their position because it was politically necessary to do so. From everything I've ever seen/heard, Trump has always supported things like gay marriage and even spoke in support of pro trans bathroom rules/laws during the campaign.

The problem folks have is with VP Pence, while Governor of Indiana, was fairly anti gay marriage. Thus if you have a person on your staff that doesn't reflect 100% of what you feel, you either don't feel what you say or you're an idiot. In this world of absolutes, we can't factor into Trump using Pence to bolster his popularity in a segment he wanted for the votes. We can only derive that Trump hates gay people.

I kinda get it, If Trump had brought in a Grand master of the KKK and said he wasn't racist, it wouldn't be accepted. At the same time, I could say that if you work for a company, who's owner doesn't align 100% with your political views, then you are supporting their views, which might be completely opposite of your views.

Sucks that somebody gets death threats because they are going to sing.

I think that's the real serious matter here.

No one cares about that. The only thing to discuss here is how much we hate Trump.