1. #13921
    Quote Originally Posted by Windthorn View Post
    Anyone playing with this build? Tried messing about with it last night but couldn't quite get my head round it as I'd just learnt the trickshot build. Would love to hear comments on this, whether the buffs will help one or the other build.
    Thank you so much for posting this. Protest Build is best build. Now just have them bake Lock n' Load into the spec and let Explosive shot be a talent that replaces Aimed Shot and oh fuck it, just give me my goddamn survival back

  2. #13922
    Quote Originally Posted by Windthorn View Post
    Anyone playing with this build? Tried messing about with it last night but couldn't quite get my head round it as I'd just learnt the trickshot build. Would love to hear comments on this, whether the buffs will help one or the other build.
    It's shit, you gain mobility and lsoe 50-100k dps.

  3. #13923
    Quote Originally Posted by Slicer299 View Post
    It absolutely exists. You can't MS, AS, AiS, AiS, with that last AiS traveling and hitting before Vulnerable ends, if you don't have enough Haste. The exact number, while at typical ranged distances, is slightly lower than 17%, I know it was rounded up to take into account variances in server lag. It matters because by being able to put that AS in between your MS and AiS, you can waste fewer Marking Targets procs due to not having to spam AS as much before consuming a proc by casting MS.
    The 17% haste soft-cap does not exist because it was theorycrafted with 6s Vulnerable timer, not 7s. With 7s you have so much extra time that even at 0 haste you have no issue filling the "MS > AS > AiS > AiS" cycle. Also AiS calculates Vuln the moment the cast finishes, travel time is not relevant(same with Marked Shot, when it was affected by Vuln).

    Quote Originally Posted by Avikur View Post
    I was always under the impression it was calculated when it hot not when it was cast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solidux View Post
    are you sure? Theres a lot of wonky "on cast" activations. Such as Windburst vuln not being applied on cast but upon hit. If you used a LNL aimed shot at 36+ yards right after a windburst, it would have been a buffless aimed shot.
    There are abilities in wow that are in 2 categories.

    1) On cast abilities - This is the majority, these spells calculate their damage upon "leaving your hands", meaning the moment they leave your hands, their damage is calculated for buffs on you and debuffs on enemy.


    2) On hit abilities - These are special cases where the devs code an ability so that it can fill its description of what it does and so that it does it the way that feels logical. These abilities are calculated for damage when they hit the target.

    These abilities are ones that most often can hit multiple targets and have a long-ish travel time, for example Glaive Toss, Windburst, Piercing Shot, Hand of Gul'dan(at least in pre-legion iteration, not sure about Legion one), Meteor, Shadow Crash or Chaos Wave(Demo lock in previous expansions, doesn't exist anymore). All of the Hunter abilities I listed have something in common and all of the other abilities from other classes have something in common.

    The Hunter abilities all have the same rule; "Something is happening between the player and the target", Glaive toss the glaives travel slow between the hunter and the target, and damage is done only if the glaives physically touch a target that was not your main target. Same is the case for Piercing Shot, though the ability animation is much faster, so it's not that noticeable or significant. Windburst on the other hand needs to calculate and draw the speed boost zone, and my guess is that this is the only way Blizzard could get it to work properly.

    The other abilities mentioned are targeted abilities on ground, so the most logical solution is to make them do their damage when the spell hits the ground right? Yes. But what if it was calculated the moment it left your hands? Suddenly a wild pack of adds appear, but you already cast your spell and they hit the new pack of adds but nothing happens.. well rip your ability. The special case here is Chaos Wave, which had a bit of a wind-up time before it hit the target and cleaved anything near it(You can see a vid of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Yz9kkVTGM)

  4. #13924
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrol View Post
    It's shit, you gain mobility and lsoe 50-100k dps.
    Atleast I don't, but I do have zevrims which allows almost every third time double marked shot. Just did a 3 min test and MS build gave 289dps and the one recommended one gave 292 dps. One test is not too good because of crits, but you don't lose 100k in any way. Remember that you don't have patient sniper so you can cast PS anytime you have over 100 focus and vuln is up.

  5. #13925
    @Azortharion, the following on Icy Veins:

    Roots of Shaladrassil Icon Roots of Shaladrassil are a pair of Legendary leggings that cause you to gain 3% health every second s for as long as you stand still.
    http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/beast-m...s-best-in-slot

    Is slightly incorrect. The heal now occurs after 1 second of standing still. Love the guides btw!

  6. #13926
    Quote Originally Posted by cateran View Post
    Really? I was pretty sure it was automatically hits every target in a frontal cone, doing x damage to the main target and x/2 to every secondary (the old one) and the new one is the same except it`s x for every target...

    I mean "Rapidly fires a spray of shots for 3 sec, dealing an average of (Ranged weapon damage * 0.7 * 7.5 * (1 + Versatility) * (1.2)) Physical damage to all enemies in front of you. Usable while moving." does not say anything about random hits...
    Why would it say "an average of" if it was consistent every time? What could that mean other than "random hits"? It's not like the individual ticks vary in damage.

  7. #13927
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrol View Post
    It's shit, you gain mobility and lsoe 50-100k dps.
    Tbh. I don't think its so bad... and this saddens me, seems like I can't play the normal specc properly anymore and I'm not even sure what I'm doing wrong (if I'm even doing something wrong).

    But I'm actually only losing ~20k max compared to a trickshot/patient build, yet in mythic+ I'd most likely do a lot more. At least I can't maintain ~460k dps on a dummy with a normal build, and I'm doing a steady 405-410k with that (pretty much 100% movement) build.. (no DPS legendaries

    I think it's absolutely retarded that it is so close.
    Last edited by mmoc96d9238e4b; 2017-01-15 at 09:11 PM.

  8. #13928
    Is sims a bit off in its latest build? Simmed me quite higher than what I was doing, or is it simming perfect situations with 0 movement?

  9. #13929
    Quote Originally Posted by PewPewArrowz View Post
    Is sims a bit off in its latest build? Simmed me quite higher than what I was doing, or is it simming perfect situations with 0 movement?
    I don't think you understand how sims work.

  10. #13930
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenzedd View Post
    I don't think you understand how sims work.
    I actually saw what I wrote and thought to myself, hmm I'm retarded. Good talk though.

  11. #13931
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    The 17% haste soft-cap does not exist because it was theorycrafted with 6s Vulnerable timer, not 7s. With 7s you have so much extra time that even at 0 haste you have no issue filling the "MS > AS > AiS > AiS" cycle. Also AiS calculates Vuln the moment the cast finishes, travel time is not relevant(same with Marked Shot, when it was affected by Vuln).
    Wrong, just wrong on so many levels. It's been tested with the 7 second Vulnerable window, and it is not long enough if you include travel time. And yes, travel time does matter. Your AiS cast must hit the target with Vulnerable still up. Almost nothing is calculated on cast any more, instead any ability that has a travel time to the target calculates nothing until it hits the target. That was a major change made at the beginning of the expansion.

    I don't have a video handy, but there were some excellent Mage guide videos that highlighted this change during the beta. It applies to us too, not just Mages, but it was those Mage videos that did the best to explain how the change works. It used to work like you claim, that various calculations would occur upon cast, but not any more. If the spell/ability has a travel time, nothing is calculated until it hits the target. It's why Mages can cast travel time affected abilities like Fire Ball and then cast their insta cast, that ignores the GCD, after casting Fire Ball to apply it's affects that will buff Fire Ball.

  12. #13932
    Deleted
    it's not wrong, he's correct.

  13. #13933
    holy shit really, we dont care about mage or they cast or spell how work, aimed shot the damage its defined for when you cast the ability not when it lands, you are applying your "logic" because how works the spells of mages, aimed shot like marked shot the damage its calculated when you "cast" the spell not when its lands, the only ability that have travel time its Windburst.

  14. #13934
    Deleted
    It's worth noting that when you cast Marked Shot, the "instant refresh" only applies to the first target.
    Similar to how the spell animation looks/works, the Vulnerable will be refreshed with the same delay on the 2nd, 3rd (etc.) target.

    It did cost me a few buffed up Marked Shots in a multi-target scenario before I noticed that.
    But I guess, since neither Trickshot nor the new MS is affected by that, it doesn't really matter anymore.
    Last edited by mmoc96d9238e4b; 2017-01-15 at 11:38 PM.

  15. #13935
    Quote Originally Posted by Slicer299 View Post
    Your AiS cast must hit the target with Vulnerable still up. Almost nothing is calculated on cast any more, instead any ability that has a travel time to the target calculates nothing until it hits the target. That was a major change made at the beginning of the expansion.
    Clearly you've never done Helya.

  16. #13936
    Quote Originally Posted by Slicer299 View Post
    Wrong, just wrong on so many levels. It's been tested with the 7 second Vulnerable window, and it is not long enough if you include travel time. And yes, travel time does matter. Your AiS cast must hit the target with Vulnerable still up.





    It's calculated on cast end. Some of us actually bothered to test this instead of assuming our abilities work the same as a different class. Maybe you should consider not jumping to conclusions.

  17. #13937
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Slicer299 View Post
    Wrong, just wrong on so many levels. It's been tested with the 7 second Vulnerable window, and it is not long enough if you include travel time. And yes, travel time does matter. Your AiS cast must hit the target with Vulnerable still up. Almost nothing is calculated on cast any more, instead any ability that has a travel time to the target calculates nothing until it hits the target. That was a major change made at the beginning of the expansion.

    I don't have a video handy, but there were some excellent Mage guide videos that highlighted this change during the beta. It applies to us too, not just Mages, but it was those Mage videos that did the best to explain how the change works. It used to work like you claim, that various calculations would occur upon cast, but not any more. If the spell/ability has a travel time, nothing is calculated until it hits the target. It's why Mages can cast travel time affected abilities like Fire Ball and then cast their insta cast, that ignores the GCD, after casting Fire Ball to apply it's affects that will buff Fire Ball.
    hate blinds you lol, are you sure you have played a hunter in 7.1.5 ?

  18. #13938
    Quote Originally Posted by Slicer299 View Post
    Wrong, just wrong on so many levels. It's been tested with the 7 second Vulnerable window, and it is not long enough if you include travel time. And yes, travel time does matter. Your AiS cast must hit the target with Vulnerable still up. Almost nothing is calculated on cast any more, instead any ability that has a travel time to the target calculates nothing until it hits the target. That was a major change made at the beginning of the expansion.

    I don't have a video handy, but there were some excellent Mage guide videos that highlighted this change during the beta. It applies to us too, not just Mages, but it was those Mage videos that did the best to explain how the change works. It used to work like you claim, that various calculations would occur upon cast, but not any more. If the spell/ability has a travel time, nothing is calculated until it hits the target. It's why Mages can cast travel time affected abilities like Fire Ball and then cast their insta cast, that ignores the GCD, after casting Fire Ball to apply it's affects that will buff Fire Ball.
    No you're wrong, everything tehterokkar said was correct.

  19. #13939
    The recent hotfix has made the situation a bit better, not only because of the actual buff recieved, but also due to the changes made to other classes.

  20. #13940
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    The recent hotfix has made the situation a bit better, not only because of the actual buff recieved, but also due to the changes made to other classes.
    it hasnt happened yet soo.

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