View Poll Results: Get rid of the talent tree?

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155. This poll is closed
  • Yes

    29 18.71%
  • No

    126 81.29%
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  1. #1
    Mechagnome sluggs's Avatar
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    Should blizzard get rid of all talents in pve?

    There are quite a few people who are unhappy with the current balance of classes do you think it would be a good idea to get rid of talent trees altogether and make each spec have 1 set of skills they always have?

    Some of the advantages would be easier to balance since you only have to test for the skills you know the player will have instead of a combination of talents. It would be easier for blizzard to create a rotation that feels good and skills that work well together instead of having some talents be weak or dead when picked together.

    Edit: should mention that i'm more in favor of utility talents and less of talents that change how spec completely plays like MM sidewinders
    Last edited by sluggs; 2017-01-16 at 04:26 AM.

  2. #2
    That would be so unbelievably boring.
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  3. #3
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Long overdue. As I've posted many times:
    "Less is more" has been working great ever since Wrath.

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    i would rather think of pvp talents removed if anything, its so weird to have buttons that only work in bg/arenas or when i occasionally cleave an alli, specially since many of those were core abilities: earth shield, anti-magic zone etc
    Last edited by Nnyco; 2017-01-16 at 01:55 AM.
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  6. #6
    "feels good" is subjective.
    A player having customisation "feels good" to some.
    How would say single target vs AoE be handled in that case.
    Would a spec simply be good or bad at a given scenario, and therefore benched one ones they are bad at because they have no way to change that.
    I don't want to see a return to the vanilla model of there being specs which simply aren't viable in some content.
    There will always be better and worse ones, but I don't want to see ones which it is hard to justify including.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2017-01-16 at 02:00 AM.
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    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    i would rather think of pvp talents removed if anything, its so weird to have buttons that only work in bg/arenas or when i occasionally cleave an alli, specially since many of those were core abilities: earth shield, anti-magic zone etc
    if you dont play pvp you dont know how important swapping between talents can be based on enemy team comp

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    Ah yeah and the unquestionably amazing gearing path which will consist of:

    Pauldrons of Great Defeat
    ilvl 950
    +950 damage

    replaced with

    Pauldrons of Greater Defeat
    ilvl 975
    +975 damage
    I see things like this and I'm really curious what portions of the community actually think (or if they think at all). You have one group of people who claim that the game sucks because it doesn't have nearly enough choices but then you get threads like this where some people actually think we have too many.

    What the fuck, dudes.

  9. #9
    One huge problem with talents is that even when a class is good, there's a distinct possibility that they're only good when using a set of talents that doesn't necessarily match up with the basic fantasy of a spec. What I'm talking about is stuff like Breath of Sindragosa builds for Death Knights; if they're ever in a situation where the Breath build is good and others aren't, then the only choice for that spec is to use that ability, which may be a serious imposition on the way that spec plays. Suddenly, a spec with a basic kit that you like turns into a spec you don't like because of the talents you have to use. Don't like the talent? Then you're SOL.

    Some talent tiers are good, but 90% of them suck because of balance issues and the gameplay frustrations that come out of it. The whole "customize your playstyle" idea that exists behind them is romantic in theory, but it's abysmal in practice. They'd be in a much better spot if they axed performance talents and left a few choices for strictly utility-based abilities, so that they can better deal with the balance issues that constantly plague the game.

    If they really want more playstyle options, they can damn well add a 4th spec to each class. It makes WAY more sense to create a well-defined and whole gameplay option than it does to deal with a spotty and fragmented system like talents. The system that they have in place right now just doesn't accomplish what they want it to accomplish.
    Last edited by Eats Compost; 2017-01-16 at 02:03 AM.

  10. #10
    Legendary! Frolk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    Long overdue. As I've posted many times:
    "Less is more" has been working great ever since Wrath.
    Cant wait till im able to play wow with an snes controller, maybe we can cut down on spells EVEN MORE, down to 4directions and 1 attack button, it would make dps 100% balanced.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    Cant wait till im able to play wow with an snes controller, maybe we can cut down on spells EVEN MORE, down to 4directions and 1 attack button, it would make dps 100% balanced.

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Terahertz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaino View Post
    if you dont play pvp you dont know how important swapping between talents can be based on enemy team comp
    Wouldn't have that problem if many of the PvP talents were baseline abilities like they used to be. IMO it's really lame that you have to swap talents depending on enemy team comp/raid encounter anyways. To me that's bad design and makes me feel less like I'm playing a character and more like I'm playing with my UI if that makes any sense.

    OT: The current talent system was made to give players the option to play with whatever fit their playstyle. Honestly that hasn't been the case since the talent system's release and has been a big noob trap and illusion for many. I hate how some talents are better than others in certain situations since that forces the player to change talents according to the situation. IMO that's really stupid design. I would much more prefer having the old talent system back in terms of how each spec had their own set of utility and DPS abilities set in stone.

  13. #13
    I don't think they should remove talents, but they need to move them back to a couple utility/non-damage choice rows. Any damage based choices should have little to no impact on your strengths and weakness, nor on your playstyle.

    A specs playstyle should be generally the same no matter what talents you pick. Every expansion until now you have been able to choose a spec and you'd know that your playstyle wouldn't change randomly because they nerfed a talent, you knew what strengths you had when you picked it, and no matter how balancing fell on your class, you could still enjoy it.

    Now you can love a spec, but hate a certain couple talents. Suddenly blizzard buffs those talents and you hate your spec now. That's not fun.
    Example: MM hunter. Sidewinders wasn't the most fun spec, it was still pretty annoying and boring, but once it gets changed and a new build is better, the entire spec plays differently and isn't fun whatsoever anymore.

    Another problem with the current system is how badly it ruins balance. Up until now, people usually had a defined strength or weakness, and you always had that in your spec, but now everyone can spec into aoe, st, cleave, whatever they need. It waters down the difference between specs and makes balance feel way worse, even if it hasn't been before, simply because everyone can now do everything. (there are a few exceptions, but even then they can do everything)

  14. #14
    rofl no talents? is this a real thread?

    fucking hell, 11 years we've had talents no-one can argue talents are ruining the fucking game.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    rofl no talents? is this a real thread?

    fucking hell, 11 years we've had talents no-one can argue talents are ruining the fucking game.
    If you actually bothered to read the thread, you'd see that there's some good arguments for at least rolling back some particular kinds of talents.

  16. #16
    Mechagnome sluggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltas View Post
    I don't think they should remove talents, but they need to move them back to a couple utility/non-damage choice rows. Any damage based choices should have little to no impact on your strengths and weakness, nor on your playstyle.

    A specs playstyle should be generally the same no matter what talents you pick. Every expansion until now you have been able to choose a spec and you'd know that your playstyle wouldn't change randomly because they nerfed a talent, you knew what strengths you had when you picked it, and no matter how balancing fell on your class, you could still enjoy it.

    Now you can love a spec, but hate a certain couple talents. Suddenly blizzard buffs those talents and you hate your spec now. That's not fun.
    Example: MM hunter. Sidewinders wasn't the most fun spec, it was still pretty annoying and boring, but once it gets changed and a new build is better, the entire spec plays differently and isn't fun whatsoever anymore.

    Another problem with the current system is how badly it ruins balance. Up until now, people usually had a defined strength or weakness, and you always had that in your spec, but now everyone can spec into aoe, st, cleave, whatever they need. It waters down the difference between specs and makes balance feel way worse, even if it hasn't been before, simply because everyone can now do everything. (there are a few exceptions, but even then they can do everything)
    Should have probably phrased the poll better as I agree they shouldn't get rid of all talents but make them more utility based

  17. #17
    Queen of Cake Splenda's Avatar
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    I see the benefits, but no. I like the idea of talents, I just wish they had even larger of an impact than they do.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoli View Post
    Wouldn't have that problem if many of the PvP talents were baseline abilities like they used to be. IMO it's really lame that you have to swap talents depending on enemy team comp/raid encounter anyways. To me that's bad design and makes me feel less like I'm playing a character and more like I'm playing with my UI if that makes any sense.

    OT: The current talent system was made to give players the option to play with whatever fit their playstyle. Honestly that hasn't been the case since the talent system's release and has been a big noob trap and illusion for many. I hate how some talents are better than others in certain situations since that forces the player to change talents according to the situation. IMO that's really stupid design. I would much more prefer having the old talent system back in terms of how each spec had their own set of utility and DPS abilities set in stone.
    It'd be fine if talents were utility-only, because then they can have different functions. DPS talents, by contrast, broadly have the same function and are strictly better or worse based on performance.

    For example, as a Death Knight, it's not a bad thing if I have a talent row that asks me to choose between a bigger AMS shield or a faster Wraith Walk boost, because I'd be making a meaningful contextual choice between two different functions every time. But choosing between two DPS talents that come down to whatever sims higher? That's lame.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Eats Compost View Post
    If you actually bothered to read the thread, you'd see that there's some good arguments for at least rolling back some particular kinds of talents.
    "It's easier to balance" is a terrible fucking argument since the ability to choose talents is exactly what keeps some classes viable. For example, if Shadow had no choice but to use S2M 100% of the time, nobody would enjoy the spec very much. Conversely, if we were stuck using only LotV or Shadow Crash, it'd cause just as much backlash. Choice is good. Piegonholing classes into talents or gamestyle choices is hardly interesting, even if it is "easier to balance."

  20. #20
    No, talents give some flexibility in play style. Removing them leads to more homogenisation .... the road to having a single class, single spec, hard codes class.

    Homogenisation will destroy the game far quicker than balance issues.

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    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


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