Do you think subs in Legion are going up or down?

[rda]

wow no "subs seem to be stable, i dont think its gone up or down"

horrible

SAD

That's option 3 - "I don't know, can be either with relatively equal chance". Ie, you don't think they changed much and so don't know the exact sign (and it doesn't matter). Close enough.

[TickTickTick]

I dont think anything about it, cause why should I? I'm not a shareholder, I'm not a dev, so the numbers don't bother me at all. I'm judging the game solely on if I'm enjoying it or not, and I am.

The obsession about subs is ridiculous tbh. You are crossing the line between a player/customer and a higher end emplyee (because even lower position employees don't give a damn about it).

Also voted the 4th option, cause threads like this only spawn shitstorms

[rda]

I have seen the posts about the drop off in pvp participation but PvP in WoW has always been such a small percentage of the player base that I don't think it supports the notion that "Legion sucks".

Well, the number of players who do rated PVP is about the same as the number of raiders who raid anything above LFR. And the number of players who just do random BGs is about the same as the number of players who do not just LFR or above, but who do 5-man instances (! - that's pretty much everyone who can be called "PVEer", we are only not counting complete soloers / low-level alters). Both these things are sourced, the former more abundantly than the latter.

So, not to start the debate, just some food for thought - PVPers are not really a minority in the sense of "there are very few of them" (or, if they are, nearly all other groups of people are a minority as well).

[TickTickTick]

Historically WoW subs always spiked up when new expansion was released, to slowly go down (TBC/WotLK might be exceptions as WoW was still young back then).
What I think is keeping WoW still alive are the new kids. Older WoW players like myself usually outgrow spending a lot of time in a MMORPG. Responsibilities catch up to us...

This this this. People still can't grasp the simple idea of the game being pretty old right now. They also don't understand that the nostalgia they are feeling has to do more with them being younger at the time and the environment they were living in was different (you know... waiting all the school day just to get invited to the raid in the evening... now most of old players have families/jobs and it's ENTIRELY different life).

[TheVaryag]

We are 4.5 months into the addon. We've seen launch, we've seen 7.1, we've seen Blizzcon, we've seen 7.1.5. We did not yet see 7.2, just heard some plans regarding what it will contain, when 7.2 will come is not really clear. We did not hear much about further patches, there will probably be 7.3 with Argus, but that's about all the info we have and the whole thing is far enough away that it is not even possible to say whether it will be small or big.

Before Legion, we had WoD. WoD was received terribly. In terms of subs, it was an absolute disaster, about half of the players left the game. Most people criticizing WoD say that the biggest issue was lack of content.

Legion is different from WoD in that the complaints have a slightly different tone. Instead of a single issue like lack of content, the complaints concentrate around several issues. Two biggest seem to be, roughly: (a) artifact power / legendaries / endless grind, and (b) class balance / pruning / specs being unpleasant to play or 'unviable'.

Some might think these issues are important. Others might think they are overblown and don't really exist. The post makes no attempt to steer you one direction or the other. Just tell what you think regarding a simple question:

Do you think Legion is making subs go up or down? Or, if you think that whatever Legion does is mostly irrelevant because subs go up or down due to other, bigger factors - do you think subs are going up or down with all the factors combined? Will we have more or less subs after Legion ends than we had after previous expansion (WoD) ended?

In a nutshell: WoD evidently saw subs going way down. Do you think Legion is reversing / will reverse this direction?

Correction: WoD was initially recieved well, I don't doubt anyone can say the questing was bad, the zones were all connected storywise, you felt you left an Impact when you left each zone, unlike Legion where all the 4 zones apart from Suramar are disconnected storywise with the big picture, and that being "hey Demonic Invasion".. where's the highmountain tauren? What did that story with Azshara do for us In Aszuna? Vrykuls bjorgen fjorgen... what did that do for us as well? And don't tell me 7.1's Trial of Valor, that ended sourly with no story explenation or further Information on the Sylvannas/Helya deal.

Otherwise, I would disagree that the complaints are different completely, there Is no content either. The content that we have Is grindy, boring and unIntuative and doesn't count as "real" content. There's a lack of GOOD content. That we have a million things to do doesn't mean we have content, that just means we have busywork to do, instead of fun and enjoyable content. And while WoD lacked good content later on It had good gear progression, from heroics to the raids, and the bosses oh lordy.. Blackhand was a pleasure to kill. Kargath and Kilrogg not so much, Ner'zhul as well. But boy was Blackhand a fun raid encounter. And do you remember "Hey Franzok.. FRANZOk.. WE GOT A JAM!"

Giant orc fanboy, just to note. But well, I think the subs -are- going down, we have content but It's not enjoyable content, In the lasts 4.5 months as you've said, we've not been given satisfactory endings to stories, or given satisfying rewards... don't tell me kicking nuts around for 5 minutes and getting an epic helmet from that Is a satisfying reward, or making trees grow as a wisp while avoiding the great nemesis of wisps: Fish.

I would've expected that since Legion has so much story Initially we'd get some story satisfaction, but as mentioned before, we got nothing on the Helya/Sylvannas deal, we got nothing out of the grindy as fudge Illidan questline where you need 80 souls, forced to do 10 heroics per week - I wanted to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt, despite the unrealistic amount of souls i needed, that we'd get a good story conclusion If we completed this quest. What did we get? Two pieces of gear we probably don't even need If you run Mythic + and taking Illidan's soul from Helheim for some reason and... that's It? I expected a cutscene, a cinematic maybe, SOME story to Illidan...

And don't even get me started on Illidan again, bloody Kerrigan of WoW he's becoming. I will give props to the class order hall stories, some of them are fun, some are just boring and obvious to know the ending. Some aren't even that sensible like the ending of the Rogue one.. not to spoil It but.. really -he- dies, but not really. He's a demon, they don't die permanently on azeroth. And the Priest one so far Is like the most Op shit considering who you're fighting, priest Is this close to being a god. And story wise, I really liked the Death Knight storyline, I mean the four horseman? Hell yes, and that ending was so on spot that's what I expected to happen. And It only makes me wonder what the relationship betwenn Ebon Blade and the Silver Hand Is going to be onward - If Blizzard even realizes they have that potential there.

But back to subs! Ahem.. since Q3 2015, we've been told the subs are 5.5 mil before they stopped telling us subs, since Q3 we've had a year of content draught, so naturally you'd assume the subs fell down to a realistic 3 mil or so. With Pre-legion patch I could see It going up to 4 mil, and holding steadily betwenn 3 - 4 mil since launch, but since the content we've got, since people have figured out that the game is so grindy and really not that rewarding, subs would've gone back to 3 mil or even less, realisticly.

I know we can't mention this, but on a certain unnamed vanila server, I've had more fun playing my orc from level 1 - 13 through Durotar and Barrens, then I've had leveling In Legion In that time. It's difficult, It's unforgiving, It promotes friendship, grouping, guilds, community - I've met 30 people In total that I quested with, and 5 of them become my friends already - THAT Is world of warcraft.



I highly doubt Legion or any future expansions will succed If we're given near-free gear left and right, as well as looting legendaries and having pointless artifact grinds, pointless PvP loot boxes to relly on PvP gear now instead of guaranteed and so on... the only redeeming factor of Legion so far Is the Suramar storyline and the Suramar City, that's It. And I'm not even going to mention the buthering of Lore In Legion. "Turalyon and Alleria were away for thousands of years In their eyes, and have been battling the big great baddie In space"...just what are you doing, Blizz that's the best you could come up with?


Lastly, I forgot this: The patches haven't given us any NEW content either, 7.1 Is basically 6.1 In content, with an added raid. It could also be compared to patch 2.2 from TBC. But then even 6.1 gave us more than 2.2 patch did. 7.1 Only gave us a raid, and suramar story that we should've had already.

[callipygoustp]

Well, the number of players who do rated PVP is about the same as the number of raiders who raid anything above LFR. And the number of players who just do random BGs is about the same as the number of players who do not just LFR or above, but who do 5-man instances (! - that's pretty much everyone who can be called "PVEer", we are only not counting complete soloers / low-level alters). Both these things are sourced, the former more abundantly than the latter.

So, not to start the debate, just some food for thought - PVPers are not really a minority in the sense of "there are very few of them" (or, if they are, nearly all other groups of people are a minority as well).

Honestly, I had nothing to back up my "feelings" on how many people do high end pvp. I assumed/expected that it was a relatively small community these days, much smaller than the high end raiding community. Maybe, if the high PvP community is large enough, the effect of losing that community will have an affect on how Legion is perceived down the line such that the community, as a whole, will see Legion as a failure. Right now, based on the couple forums that I still read, I don't get the impression that Legion is failure, at least not nearly as much of a failure as WoD was.

[Deleted]

Why would anyone play right now? Seriously...

[Deleted]

Didn't vote because the options are just all bad.

Subs are going down. They always go down from the release spike.

Legion is good, but

- there is little alt support (artifact power, gated progression)
- there is no balance (ToV normal/hc being impossible the first weeks for people doing mythic EN)
- there is still not enough content (WQs were fun the first 2 months then they become a chore)

[Eleccybubb]

Why would anyone play right now? Seriously...

Think it might be because they like the game. Strange concept I know.

[callipygoustp]

- there is little alt support (artifact power, gated progression)

This combined with the inability to actively maintain multiple specs, due to the artifact weapon, are the biggest "real" issues that I've observed.

[rda]

Didn't vote because the options are just all bad.

Subs are going down. They always go down from the release spike.

Legion is good, but

- there is little alt support (artifact power, gated progression)
- there is no balance (ToV normal/hc being impossible the first weeks for people doing mythic EN)
- there is still not enough content (WQs were fun the first 2 months then they become a chore)

This seems like a clear case of option 2 - "subs are down, but it's not (not entirely or completely not) Legion's fault" is there - but OK.

[HolgerDK]

Subs are designed to go down and come back up again. That's why they have periscopes.

Hahahaha, nice one!

[Volardelis]

Subs maybe going down, but how many of those are switching their subs to the coins? Or still use the pre-paid card (if they still exist)

Subs only mean people who pay a subscription fee, doesn't mean active accounts.

[Deleted]

- there is little alt support (artifact power, gated progression)
- there is no balance (ToV normal/hc being impossible the first weeks for people doing mythic EN)
- there is still not enough content (WQs were fun the first 2 months then they become a chore)

ehrm what? did you mean TOV impossible for people doing normal EN? Because nm/hm was quite simple.

I agree on the rest though, the gating makes resubbing very unappealing.

[Deleted]

Well, the number of players who do rated PVP is about the same as the number of raiders who raid anything above LFR. And the number of players who just do random BGs is about the same as the number of players who do not just LFR or above, but who do 5-man instances (! - that's pretty much everyone who can be called "PVEer", we are only not counting complete soloers / low-level alters). Both these things are sourced, the former more abundantly than the latter.

So, not to start the debate, just some food for thought - PVPers are not really a minority in the sense of "there are very few of them" (or, if they are, nearly all other groups of people are a minority as well).

I highly doubt that. Normal and heroic are so ez everyone can do it without having to need a guild.
Doing rated pvp at a decent lvl requires a guild or group of friends.
In legion I think pve is a lot more popular then pvp, and by a lot I mean a lot, pvp is dying.

I think there are even more mythic raiders then players who participate in rated pvp weekly/daily.
Link your sources if u claim to have proof of the contrary.

[Stormspark]

wow no "subs seem to be stable, i dont think its gone up or down"

horrible

SAD

This. I'm going to guess that they are relatively stable since launch. I also think the launch numbers were in the neighborhood of 6-7 million. There was no way they were going to get 10 million again after the scam they pulled with WOD, so 6-7 million is actually surprising (keep in mind WOD dropped down to about 2 by the end).

[Volardelis]

Correction: WoD was initially recieved well, I don't doubt anyone can say the questing was bad, the zones were all connected storywise,

Gorgrond was not connected at all. Especially if you picked the lumber mill as your outpost. Get titan relic from the primals only to be told by an Iron horde orc that you stole his relic (which you do if you picked the sparring arena). Spires of Arak had random Kargath appear for no real reason. The area you fight him as Terokk was a bonus objective anyway. Would've been better if you assaulted Skyreach given his history with the adherents. (like how you assault the door to the Heart of Fear with the paragons or assault the main gate to the nighthold in the 7.1 chain).

- - - Updated - - -

ehrm what? did you mean TOV impossible for people doing normal EN? Because nm/hm was quite simple.

I agree on the rest though, the gating makes resubbing very unappealing.

mythic EN = normal EN?

- - - Updated - - -

I highly doubt that. Normal and heroic are so ez everyone can do it without having to need a guild.
Doing rated pvp at a decent lvl requires a guild or group of friends.
In legion I think pve is a lot more popular then pvp, and by a lot I mean a lot, pvp is dying.

PvE tends to be more popular then PvP since PvE tells the story.

[Deleted]

This seems like a clear case of option 2 - "subs are down, but it's not (not entirely or completely not) Legion's fault" is there - but OK.

Actually option 2 is:

I think subs are going down, Legion is bad

I dont think Legion is bad, its quite good and fun but just doesnt last long. I was bored 3 months in, let my sub run out. Not considering coming back for 7.1.x or even 7.2

[FelPlague]

This. I'm going to guess that they are relatively stable since launch. I also think the launch numbers were in the neighborhood of 6-7 million. There was no way they were going to get 10 million again after the scam they pulled with WOD, so 6-7 million is actually surprising (keep in mind WOD dropped down to about 2 by the end).

hhh doudt it whent to 2... i dont see where you got these numbers
as the 6 months before they stopped giving numbers, it was 5.7 mil, then 5.6 mil.... so it was rather stable.. . idont see where in another 6 months it would drop 3 mil....


legion most likely reached up to 10 mil again, just from how good the launch lookd

[Daedius]

Doubt it'll be getting many new subs past initial release so...