The Terrifying Stakes Of Repealing Obamacare Without A Clear Replacement

[NYC17]

Or cheap insurance with 30k deductibles and huge copays. People forget that is exactly what existed before Obamacare...

That's pretty much Rand Paul's plan.

[Orbitus]

Insurance is a waste of money if you never use it imo.

But if you don't have insurance, you basically fuck over the rest of the people in the country by making them foot the bill. Or say you don't have home insurance and have a fire? You are now homeless. No Car insurance and have an accident? You are now bankrupt.

[schwarzkopf]

Or cheap insurance with 30k deductibles and huge copays. People forget that is exactly what existed before Obamacare...

What value is a deductible to a poor person ?

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Insurance is a waste of money if you never use it imo.

Or for Trump voters -a brain is a waste of space if they never use it.

Serious dude, Insurance is the BEST when you never use it.

[Draco-Onis]

Bernie is dead wrong on drug imports. We subsidize healthcare for all the world by allowing companies to essentially have a monopoly on their branded medicines. If we imported drugs that monopoly would dissapear and R&D investment on drugs would reduce and harms us all. Generic drugs on the other side.....

That is false big pharma spends far more on marketing than R&D, the money spend on R&D has been decreasing for quite some time. If you listen to investor calls they often brag about spending more time on repackaging drugs and hiking prices then new breakthrough. They do though spend on money drugs for rare diseases where the patients have zero alternatives.

For example Biogen has a new drug that cost $750,000 for the first year and $375,000 for every year after. The amount they charge has nothing to do with R&D but the fact that they can charge whatever the hell they want.

[stabetha]

Democrats did not have complete control... Republicans had much of the house, and in fact the health care was heavily heavily altered because of that. Republicans made shit tons of changes to ACA which is why it is the way it is now, it's why there is such a strong focus on private insurance because Republicans prioritized their profits. You think it was democrats just because a democrat was fucking president?! God I can see why republicans keep winning, they can do a whole bunch of fucked up shit to their own base and their own base will blame it on someone else becuase they're so woefully uninformed.

talk about uninformed god dam were you living in a cave 8 years ago?democrats had control of the house, the senate, and the presidency until 6 years ago, they were one seat away from having filiabuster proof control and one of those seats not held by a democrat was held by an independent who ran as an independent when the democrate party put a center left democrate up in the election,

the ACA didn't get a single republican vote so it could have been anything they wanted it to be and this is what they gave you.

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I can only quote Trump.
You can only misquote Trump.

"Insurance for everybody"
How did you translate that?

first of all I was talking about my mouth not Trumps
Secondly insurance for everyone doesn't mean socialized medicine.

[NED funded]

That is false big pharma spends far more on marketing than R&D, the money spend on R&D has been decreasing for quite some time. If you listen to investor calls they often brag about spending more time on repackaging drugs and hiking prices then new breakthrough. They do though spend on money drugs for rare diseases where the patients have zero alternatives.

For example Biogen has a new drug that cost $750,000 for the first year and $375,000 for every year after. The amount they charge has nothing to do with R&D but the fact that they can charge whatever the hell they want.

This is a photo of my phone with like 8 studies contradicting you. We can through this if you want and I can write a long detailed explanation as to why is it like this.

[Draco-Onis]

This is a photo of my phone with like 8 studies contradicting you. We can through this if you want and I can write a long detailed explanation as to why is it like this.

Studies sponsored and done by who? stop looking at studies and follow the money. The pharmaceutical industry has lost interest in R&D and finds sales/marketing and price hikes to be much more profitable. The pharmaceutical industry is a monopoly with unchecked pricing power, the current system is broken.

[Celista]

What value is a deductible to a poor person ?

If you can't afford the deductible then it's almost as bad as having no insurance at all. That was the point of my post.

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You all seem to forget the democrates had complete control eight years ago could have passed anything they wanted and instead of socilized medicine they gave the insurence companies a big old bag if money from your pocket, but yeah its the republicans fault, dam that Bush.

Democrats did not have complete control... Republicans had much of the house, and in fact the health care was heavily heavily altered because of that. Republicans made shit tons of changes to ACA which is why it is the way it is now, it's why there is such a strong focus on private insurance because Republicans prioritized their profits. You think it was democrats just because a democrat was fucking president?! God I can see why republicans keep winning, they can do a whole bunch of fucked up shit to their own base and their own base will blame it on someone else becuase they're so woefully uninformed.

You forgot to mention the part where red states were offered money to expand Medicaid under the ACA so that those states could have health care for poor people, but those Republican senators turned the money down. Yes they would have preferred to have poor people die without health care rather than accept Medicaid funding.

I have no idea why people vote Republican, "evil" is the only word that aptly describes many of their actions.

[NED funded]

Studies sponsored and done by who? stop looking at studies and follow the money. The pharmaceutical industry has lost interest in R&D and finds sales/marketing and price hikes to be much more profitable. The pharmaceutical industry is a monopoly with unchecked pricing power, the current system is broken.

This are all independent studies. I agree generic drugs are overpriced as fuck and needs a restructuring. But on the grand scheme of things generic dont make up most of our drug spending.
Links for the studies so you can check them:
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama...sfp=1314462730
http://www.nber.org/papers/w12676
https://healtheconomicsreview.spring...561-014-0023-5
http://www.nber.org/papers/w14041
http://www.cluteinstitute.com/ojs/in...icle/view/2131
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...7052C2AE0AA6AF

[Felya]

first of all I was talking about my mouth not Trumps
Secondly insurance for everyone doesn't mean socialized medicine.

Your issue with healthcare is that insurance is not for everyone?

[nacixems]

It's more than a rough outline.

Cant be any worse than.. "we have to pass it first to see whats in it" sorry. I will take that over how it was born to start with anyday.

[Felya]

Cant be any worse than.. "we have to pass it first to see whats in it" sorry. I will take that over how it was born to start with anyday.

That's quote is taken out of context and is an example of misinformation. The actual quote:

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy

[Draco-Onis]

This are all independent studies. I agree generic drugs are overpriced as fuck and needs a restructuring. But on the grand scheme of things generic dont make up most of our drug spending.
Links for the studies so you can check them:
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama...sfp=1314462730
http://www.nber.org/papers/w12676htt...561-014-0023-5
http://www.nber.org/papers/w14041
http://www.cluteinstitute.com/ojs/in...icle/view/2131
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...7052C2AE0AA6AF

NBER - mainly gets funding from four sources who are conservative, small government advocates. One of your links is also not working.

Clue institute - Pay to play journal.

Cambridge - required a login to see the full study.

I suggest you read some studies by the CBO on drugs pricing in the US they are far more informative. If the current model is to work we need two things a) Mandatory R&D spending set by the government for all pharmaceutical companies b) A specific formula set by the government when it comes to drug pricing. Also you have to take into account while drug prices have continued to sky rocket the amount of cures coming down the pipe line has slowed to a crawl.

I don't see how anyone can justify charging nearly $1 million for what amount to 6 pills or companies like Mylan with Epipen there needs to be either stricter government control or competition.

[Felya]

It was a dumb thing to say, but it's nowhere near as bad as people who are biased against the Democrats and really want to bitch about the ACA make it out to be. It essentially meant it the bill was being changed and there was no telling what the end result would be until it was actually passed, not that people didn't know the contents of the bill at any particular point in time. That it has become such a political meme should be considered an indictment of the level of engagement and awareness of the American voter.

Actually, the point was trying to address a controversy. For example, which of these 4 items are in ACA? All of these were claimed to exist by either DNC or RNC members, with the other disagreeing:

1) Grandfather plans for existing insurance.
2) Deathpannels for the elderly.
3) Cross state insurance.
4) abortions paid for by the tax payer.

The bill is in plain text... if everyone can go and read, yet we were being told and believed conflicting information. What is the solution to see what the bill is written to do, away from this controversy?

[Kujako]

To be fair, he didn't say it would be useful insurance that would actually cover anything.

[Themius]

talk about uninformed god dam were you living in a cave 8 years ago?democrats had control of the house, the senate, and the presidency until 6 years ago, they were one seat away from having filiabuster proof control and one of those seats not held by a democrat was held by an independent who ran as an independent when the democrate party put a center left democrate up in the election,

the ACA didn't get a single republican vote so it could have been anything they wanted it to be and this is what they gave you.

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first of all I was talking about my mouth not Trumps
Secondly insurance for everyone doesn't mean socialized medicine.

6 years ago in an 8 year presidency.. you said they had 8 fucking years. since when is 2 years equal to 8?

[Felya]

To be fair, he didn't say it would be useful insurance that would actually cover anything.

He didn't say anything. We have insurance for everyone now, before ACA and pretty much for the duration of US healthcare including insurance. In fact, the only thing his comment is saying, is that the only solution to healthcare issues, is insurance.

An example of insurance for everyone? HSA... as in, the same vouchers Trump said was his plan previously and Paul Ryan advocated leading up to 2012 elections...

[Fenius]

Try not to get too riled up on ones like them. Most of them are just that five letter word we can't say here, and the others are just not worth the time and their family will suffer from how they think.

Really why is that because I choose to put my family ahead of you. I am sorry your family must come second in your reality. I actually do fine that quite disturbing.

[Kujako]

He didn't say anything. We have insurance for everyone now, before ACA and pretty much for the duration of US healthcare including insurance. In fact, the only thing his comment is saying, is that the only solution to healthcare issues, is insurance.

An example of insurance for everyone? HSA... as in, the same vouchers Trump said was his plan previously and Paul Ryan advocated leading up to 2012 elections...

Pre-ACA my friend could not get insurance due to a chronic preexisting condition. So....

[Zamfix]

If Trump can make Republicans want socialized healthcare then I just don't even know anymore.