The Terrifying Stakes Of Repealing Obamacare Without A Clear Replacement

[Merie]

How's that wall that the mexicans are going to pay for coming along guys??

[Yvaelle]

If he got republicans to agree to "socialist" healthcare because it is now a republican president pushing for it, I would just die laughing.

"Surprise fools! You're all Canadians now!"

[Bighud44]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/katiesol.../#29c6b26aa5d0
@breadisfunny what do you think?




People are gonna lose their lives over this. It really boggles the mind that these politicians were voted in.

OMFG....Now to the "People will die because Obama's legacy is being removed" argument. The ACA was put in place for one purpose and that was to FAIL.....That way Liberals could get a single payer government run heath care. Was the system perfect before the ACA? No. But to insure a small percentage off the backs of the majority isn't right. I have friends that are in their 40's who don't have health care because of the ACA. These are people who are part of the 49% who pay taxes but can not afford the 50% hike in their premiums. All to insure people who refuse to work.

Just love when liberals scream that people are going to die on a system that has only been in place for what a little over 5 years now? Really?????

[Felya]

Pre-ACA my friend could not get insurance due to a chronic preexisting condition. So....

It was still for him, just as it was for everyone, he just didn't qualify. My point doesn't have anything to do with how insurance functions or how it should function. It is only to show how little meaning there is in 'insurance for everybody'. It doesn't even mean healthcare for everyone...

Something that wouldn't be an issue:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account

[The Casualty]

To be fair, he didn't say it would be useful insurance that would actually cover anything.

And there's the rub.

I believe him less than the whole "you can keep your plan/doctor" shtick from years ago.

[telygroar]

Sounds sort of like he is wanting to do what Bernie Sanders was talking about when he was trying to get the democrat nomination. Slightly raise taxes on everyone and then the government covers us all with insurance.

Like french model.

[NYC17]

OMFG....Now to the "People will die because Obama's legacy is being removed" argument. The ACA was put in place for one purpose and that was to FAIL.....That way Liberals could get a single payer government run heath care. Was the system perfect before the ACA? No. But to insure a small percentage off the backs of the majority isn't right. I have friends that are in their 40's who don't have health care because of the ACA. These are people who are part of the 49% who pay taxes but can not afford the 50% hike in their premiums. All to insure people who refuse to work.

Just love when liberals scream that people are going to die on a system that has only been in place for what a little over 5 years now? Really?????

Majority of the poor work.

What's your next argument based in ignorance?

[Felya]

If Trump can make Republicans want socialized healthcare then I just don't even know anymore.

He already said during election season that he wants an HSA voucher program. Pretty much what Paul Ryan was pushing 5 years ago. It would most likely pass congress, due to support from Trump's camp and RNC, is not the dreaded socialized medicine and even fits Trump's previous proposal of deductibles being a tax write off.

Edit: oh and it fits the 'insurance for everyone' mold... as in, yeah, everyone can put money into a health savings account... preexisting condition? Sounds like you need to put more in...

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Sounds sort of like he is wanting to do what Bernie Sanders was talking about when he was trying to get the democrat nomination. Slightly raise taxes on everyone and then the government covers us all with insurance.

This is lunacy. Medicare for all, is the antithesis of insurance for everyone. There has never been a moment when Trump suggested raising taxes, but has proposed one of the largest tax cuts in history. Trump has said it's HSA and attacked Hillary for supporting universal coverage, directly and explicitly during the debate.

I have no clue how 'insurance for everyone' is at all like Bernie and the assertion of Trump, the I'm smart for using loopholes to not pay taxes for decades, means increasing taxes...

[Kujako]

There has never been a moment when Trump suggested raising taxes, but has proposed one of the largest tax cuts in history.

Well yeah... Trump doesn't math.

[Fenius]

How fucking dense are you really? He has been paying insurance for 20 years and only got cancer 14 months ago but he'd be dropped from his insurance plan w/o ACA and you're going to call him a leech? So what do you think is going to happen when one of your kids just randomly got cancer? Can I call your kid a "leech" because he's taking resources away from the society even though you probably have been paying insurance for your kid for like 10 years. So you're saying that I'm entirely able to drop your kid because he has cancer? Because that's what you're saying to the other guy. Instead of trying to prevent it to happen to more people. What you're doing is pretty much trying to take a risk because you think it won't happen to you. Or you're saying that you're wealthy enough to cover for your family cancer treatment if that does happen to them.

I have purchased a secondary insurance. Which the ACA removed deductions for, think AFLAC. But like many you have missed the wider problem the ACA did not fix. Cost. Unless you reduce the cost of the healthcare system all you are doing is shifting it. Essentially playing a shell game. Which is inherently unfair and unsustainable. Like most you drank the kool aid. Cool free shit. Nothing is free. Yes the insurance game is pretty much 100% risk, yet another failure of ACA to fix. You may not like it but that is the game. It is a shitty one. It does not matter how much you have paid into the system. None, why because that is not how the system works. All the ACA has done is lined the pockets of some elitist pricks who think they are better than you. Despite what you may think of me, I do not believe that about myself. What i do believe is that my family and their care does come before you. So if you want a discussion about how to fix fine, If you want free stuff go fly a kite.

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Majority of the poor work.

What's your next argument based in ignorance?

Actually your right they do. Problem is most only find part-time or seasonal work because of their lack of education or training. Which sucks but, why is it ok to take from another to give to some one else? Why is the root of the problem never attacked? Namely cost. Why is it my responsibility to pick up someone's lack of personal responsibility. I am full well willing to help further education or training, but it is not my responsibility to care for you. Understandably, shit happens sure you need help. But the ACA does not do that. In fact I am all for a welfare system that augments income, but in order to have income you must work. What I am not for is pay 66 Million people to do nothing (yea that is the number go look it up on the government web site, 130mil + using the welfare 66 mill siting on their ass doing nothing). I am not for simply shifting risk assessment cost around either. Which is all the ACA has done. It is bull shit and unfair.

[apelsinjuice]

American health care will always be total shit as long as its privaticed company business whos only goal is profit.

[Rakoth]

Actually your right they do. Problem is most only find part-time or seasonal work because of their lack of education or training. Which sucks but, why is it ok to take from another to give to some one else? Why is the root of the problem never attacked? Namely cost. Why is it my responsibility to pick up someone's lack of personal responsibility. I am full well willing to help further education or training, but it is not my responsibility to care for you. Understandably, shit happens sure you need help. But the ACA does not do that. In fact I am all for a welfare system that augments income, but in order to have income you must work. What I am not for is pay 66 Million people to do nothing (yea that is the number go look it up on the government web site, 130mil + using the welfare 66 mill siting on their ass doing nothing). I am not for simply shifting risk assessment cost around either. Which is all the ACA has done. It is bull shit and unfair.

Because, you live and breath off the back of others. Those roads you take to work, others have provided them. That electricity infrastructure you have, others have provided it. That education you earned, others helped. The safety of your community, protected by others. We live in society, and as such, we take care of each other.

I have a very good job, I am educated. Why do I have a very good job, because our society values my talents. Do I provide much benefit, nope. I simply do something that is irrelevant to the betterment of mankind, but that someone can get paid for. I make more then a nurse, a teacher, a garbage man, all jobs that actually do something.

So check your privileges and be thankful you have a talent that society values. I would pay more taxes to give back to society, because as an individual who can thrive in society, I owe it to that society to take care of it.

[Kujako]

No one is going to lose their lives over this, that's just a scare tactic used on ignorant people.

Really? You don't think kicking people off their medical insurance could kill them? I know several people who kind of need their insurance to live, without it the cost of staying alive is into the five-six figures per month.

[Fenius]

Because, you live and breath off the back of others. Those roads you take to work, others have provided them. That electricity infrastructure you have, others have provided it. That education you earned, others helped. The safety of your community, protected by others. We live in society, and as such, we take care of each other.

I have a very good job, I am educated. Why do I have a very good job, because our society values my talents. Do I provide much benefit, nope. I simply do something that is irrelevant to the betterment of mankind, but that someone can get paid for. I make more then a nurse, a teacher, a garbage man, all jobs that actually do something.

So check your privileges and be thankful you have a talent that society values. I would pay more taxes to give back to society, because as an individual who can thrive in society, I owe it to that society to take care of it.

I think your missing the point. But to each their own. I have made my own way. The only one who helped me were my parents. I have not said a word about roads. Electricity in the US is provided by private industry and maintained by private industry which I pay for through my bills. My safe community is provided by property taxes, again which is not being discussed here. Do we live in a society yes. Do most contribute yes. There are some who do not. In which case society should not contribute to them. Of course there are some who need it. Those who are able body and do not, need to go. As for on the backs of others is kinda of a bull shit statement. Did you attend and pay for school out of your own pocket? Did society provide you your grades? Or was it your effort? Did you pursue education because it was your goal? Or because society demanded it of/or placed you? Did someone do your homework and study for you? By no means am I demeaning the janitor, or tradesman. What I am saying is that the ACA did nothing more than shift cost in an industry based off of risk assessment. It was bull shit and built to line the pockets of a few.

[NYC17]

I have purchased a secondary insurance. Which the ACA removed deductions for, think AFLAC. But like many you have missed the wider problem the ACA did not fix. Cost. Unless you reduce the cost of the healthcare system all you are doing is shifting it. Essentially playing a shell game. Which is inherently unfair and unsustainable. Like most you drank the kool aid. Cool free shit. Nothing is free. Yes the insurance game is pretty much 100% risk, yet another failure of ACA to fix. You may not like it but that is the game. It is a shitty one. It does not matter how much you have paid into the system. None, why because that is not how the system works. All the ACA has done is lined the pockets of some elitist pricks who think they are better than you. Despite what you may think of me, I do not believe that about myself. What i do believe is that my family and their care does come before you. So if you want a discussion about how to fix fine, If you want free stuff go fly a kite.

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Actually your right they do. Problem is most only find part-time or seasonal work because of their lack of education or training. Which sucks but, why is it ok to take from another to give to some one else? Why is the root of the problem never attacked? Namely cost. Why is it my responsibility to pick up someone's lack of personal responsibility. I am full well willing to help further education or training, but it is not my responsibility to care for you. Understandably, shit happens sure you need help. But the ACA does not do that. In fact I am all for a welfare system that augments income, but in order to have income you must work. What I am not for is pay 66 Million people to do nothing (yea that is the number go look it up on the government web site, 130mil + using the welfare 66 mill siting on their ass doing nothing). I am not for simply shifting risk assessment cost around either. Which is all the ACA has done. It is bull shit and unfair.

Because you live in a society, not a vacuum.

As for your welfare numbers, please cite them.

[Annoying]

Actually your right they do. Problem is most only find part-time or seasonal work because of their lack of education or training. Which sucks but, why is it ok to take from another to give to some one else? Why is the root of the problem never attacked? Namely cost. Why is it my responsibility to pick up someone's lack of personal responsibility. I am full well willing to help further education or training, but it is not my responsibility to care for you. Understandably, shit happens sure you need help. But the ACA does not do that. In fact I am all for a welfare system that augments income, but in order to have income you must work. What I am not for is pay 66 Million people to do nothing (yea that is the number go look it up on the government web site, 130mil + using the welfare 66 mill siting on their ass doing nothing). I am not for simply shifting risk assessment cost around either. Which is all the ACA has done. It is bull shit and unfair.

You realize that some huge chunk of that 66m are people too young to work, too old to work, or people incapable of working, right?

[Fenius]

You realize that some huge chunk of that 66m are people too young to work, too old to work, or people incapable of working, right?

According to the numbers on the website that is not the case. Most of elderly fall under Social Security, which to my knowledge was not connected to the number. It is actually quite detailed. You would be surprised what was on it. I will try to find the website and edit this post with the link. And too young to work is a joke. I found a job at 16 working fast food. Work is available just not the job you want. You maybe emptying toilets but at least its a job.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

[stabetha]

You all seem to forget the democrates had complete control eight years ago could have passed anything they wanted and instead of socilized medicine they gave the insurence companies a big old bag if money from your pocket, but yeah its the republicans fault, dam that Bush.

6 years ago in an 8 year presidency.. you said they had 8 fucking years. since when is 2 years equal to 8?

please show me where I fucking said that.

[Fenius]

Because you live in a society, not a vacuum.

As for your welfare numbers, please cite them.

A vacuum, what is this even supposed to mean? Looking for them now. will edit post when I have them.
http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
On source using Department of Commerce. Looking for the other.

[Rakoth]

I think your missing the point. But to each their own. I have made my own way. The only one who helped me were my parents. I have not said a word about roads. Electricity in the US is provided by private industry and maintained by private industry which I pay for through my bills. My safe community is provided by property taxes, again which is not being discussed here. Do we live in a society yes. Do most contribute yes. There are some who do not. In which case society should not contribute to them. Of course there are some who need it. Those who are able body and do not, need to go. As for on the backs of others is kinda of a bull shit statement. Did you attend and pay for school out of your own pocket? Did society provide you your grades? Or was it your effort? Did you pursue education because it was your goal? Or because society demanded it of/or placed you? Did someone do your homework and study for you? By no means am I demeaning the janitor, or tradesman. What I am saying is that the ACA did nothing more than shift cost in an industry based off of risk assessment. It was bull shit and built to line the pockets of a few.

Look up the New Deal, most rural areas wouldn't have electricity even today, if it weren't for government, why? Because population density and infrastructure costs weren't worth it. Most people want to contribute to society, those that do not, cannot. Through no fault of their own, they cannot get a decent job.
I got good grades because I wasn't hungry, I wasn't cold, I wasn't afraid. I got to focus on my studies because I didn't need to focus on survival. These benefits my parents were able to afford me, because they were protected by society, taken care of by society. So, when you say the only one's who helped you were your parents. Who helped them?
Did you chose where / whom you were born to? Did you chose to be male (assumed, since most ppl on this forum are)? Did you chose your race? You are the product of pure luck, and circumstance. Your parents were well enough off that they could afford to have you. Not all children are blessed as we are.

You worked hard for where you got, because you were allowed to. Be thankful for that. I am in the same situation, and my son is absolutely one of the luckiest babies alive, but with that privilege, also comes responsibility to give back to the society that enabled all of this.

Also, I am curious as to what you do for a living. I am pretty sure it's a job that our society has created, through an artificial need that it has created for itself.