The Terrifying Stakes Of Repealing Obamacare Without A Clear Replacement

[Paranoid Android]

Really? You don't think kicking people off their medical insurance could kill them? I know several people who kind of need their insurance to live, without it the cost of staying alive is into the five-six figures per month.

Obviously you are not "AWOKE" or "Independent". I mean look who you replied too.

[stabetha]

Your issue with healthcare is that insurance is not for everyone?

what? Did everyone forget how to read today? I said insurance for everyone =/= socilized medicine

[NYC17]

A vacuum, what is this even supposed to mean? Looking for them now. will edit post when I have them.
http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
On source using Department of Commerce. Looking for the other.

You don't know what living in a vacuum means? Look

And thanks for the link. NOw please, tell us where you get the 130+million figure.

[Fenius]

Look up the New Deal, most rural areas wouldn't have electricity even today, if it weren't for government, why? Because population density and infrastructure costs weren't worth it. Most people want to contribute to society, those that do not, cannot. Through no fault of their own, they cannot get a decent job.
I got good grades because I wasn't hungry, I wasn't cold, I wasn't afraid. I got to focus on my studies because I didn't need to focus on survival. These benefits my parents were able to afford me, because they were protected by society, taken care of by society. So, when you say the only one's who helped you were your parents. Who helped them?
Did you chose where / whom you were born to? Did you chose to be male (assumed, since most ppl on this forum are)? Did you chose your race? You are the product of pure luck, and circumstance. Your parents were well enough off that they could afford to have you. Not all children are blessed as we are.

You worked hard for where you got, because you were allowed to. Be thankful for that. I am in the same situation, and my son is absolutely one of the luckiest babies alive, but with that privilege, also comes responsibility to give back to the society that enabled all of this.

Also, I am curious as to what you do for a living. I am pretty sure it's a job that our society has created, through an artificial need that it has created for itself.

Oh so your one of the Privilege crowd. Engineer. Yes luck does play a factor. But your privilege argument does not stand up to personal willingness to succeed. I could win the lottery tomorrow and be broke 2 years latter because of my lack of personal responsibility. While luck does play a factor an individuals personal willingness to succeed and persevere plays an even larger roll. Most of the privilege arguments is based upon luck and circumstance. Both of which do not hold up historically. For an example I offer up Annie Malone or Clarence Thomas.

Most first time millionaires are made. Most first time Billionaires get lucky. I believe that is a quote from Mark Cuban.

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You don't know what living in a vacuum means? Look

And thanks for the link. NOw please, tell us where you get the 130+million figure.

Read the beginning 70.5 Million in Medicaid are not included. Medicaid is not medicare do not confuse the two.

[Felya]

what? Did everyone forget how to read today? I said insurance for everyone =/= socilized medicine

That's not what I was responding to. This was:

first of all I was talking about my mouth not Trumps
Secondly insurance for everyone doesn't mean socialized medicine.

As that's the only thing Trump said, I am asking you what the problem is. Just trying to clear up the confusion between your claims of Obama's supporting insurance companies, in defending Trump's insurance for everyone. Unless you want to keep people thinking you are a socialist and not just bitching about Obama, you need to explain what in 'insurance for all' fixes, in your issue of Obama's handing you over to insurance. If insurance are bad, single payer is bad, than what exactly are you defending in 'insurance for all' in calling out Obama?

[NYC17]

Oh so your one of the Privilege crowd. Engineer. Yes luck does play a factor. But your privilege argument does not stand up to personal willingness to succeed. I could win the lottery tomorrow and be broke 2 years latter because of my lack of personal responsibility. While luck does play a factor an individuals personal willingness to succeed and persevere plays an even larger roll. Most of the privilege arguments is based upon luck and circumstance. Both of which do not hold up historically. For an example I offer up Annie Malone or Clarence Thomas.

Most first time millionaires are made. Most first time Billionaires get lucky. I believe that is a quote from Mark Cuban.

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Read the beginning 70.5 Million in Medicaid are not included. Medicaid is not medicare do not confuse the two.

Medicaid is not a welfare program.

Also, even if we disingenuously include it, it still doesn't support your rather stupid statement that 66 million do nothing.

[JohnBrown1917]

Just love when liberals scream that people are going to die on a system that has only been in place for what a little over 5 years now? Really?????

Well, have fun to going back to people being unable to afford healthcare at all.

[Felya]

You all seem to forget the democrates had complete control eight years ago could have passed anything they wanted and instead of socilized medicine they gave the insurence companies a big old bag if money from your pocket, but yeah its the republicans fault, dam that Bush.

You think giving insurance a big ol' bag of money is bad, right? You are defending Trump, by claiming RNC had no control over ACA doing so, right? Insurance for all is handing money to insurance companies... yes or no?

Because this next part is very important and why people seem to think you proposed socialism, instead of just beidng a hypocrite. How is insurance for all better than current dependence on insurance through ACA? Until you can explain that, people are likely to assume your issue is the insurance for all, not that it was Obama's fault and GOP had nothing to do with it, regardless of the OP.

[Gorsameth]

It was still for him, just as it was for everyone, he just didn't qualify. My point doesn't have anything to do with how insurance functions or how it should function. It is only to show how little meaning there is in 'insurance for everybody'. It doesn't even mean healthcare for everyone...

Something that wouldn't be an issue:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account

A simple injury like a broken bone is thousands of dollars. A chronic condition like your quote talks about cannot simply be covered by your own finances unless your well off.

Healthcare can be made affordable by spreading the cost across multiple people.
Your Health savings account does none of that and is utterly insufficient for any long term illness.

[Felya]

A simple injury like a broken bone is thousands of dollars. A chronic condition like your quote talks about cannot simply be covered by your own finances unless your well off.

Healthcare can be made affordable by spreading the cost across multiple people.
Your Health savings account does none of that and is utterly insufficient for any long term illness.

Don't tell me... tell every lunatic that seems to think Trump is proposing a Bernie stile healthcare plan. :|

[Rakoth]

Oh so your one of the Privilege crowd. Engineer. Yes luck does play a factor. But your privilege argument does not stand up to personal willingness to succeed. I could win the lottery tomorrow and be broke 2 years latter because of my lack of personal responsibility. While luck does play a factor an individuals personal willingness to succeed and persevere plays an even larger roll. Most of the privilege arguments is based upon luck and circumstance. Both of which do not hold up historically. For an example I offer up Annie Malone or Thomas Clarence.

Most first time millionaires are made. Most first time Billionaires get lucky. I believe that is a quote from Mark Cuban.

Yes, I am one of the privilege crowd. Because I have seen harder working people then me, not being able to make it do to circumstances largely outside their control. I have friends who started off top of their class end up homeless because their parents had a nasty divorce at a critical time in their teenage life, or because a parent had cancer during their last year of high school, derailing their shot of making it into the school of their choosing. I have spoken to homeless people at food drives who can't hold down a job due to a mental illness. If some lazy slackers get to game the system to go through life without contributing, it's the price I am willing to pay to help those who need and deserve the benefits.

I challenge you to educate yourself, and realize that poverty begets poverty, and that you can try to work as hard as you want, most times, it's not up to you.

http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/th...ord-on-a-plate

These are the 66 million doing nothing:
http://www.ibtimes.com/welfare-ameri...stance-2300713

In case clicking a link is hard:
In a government data analysis released Tuesday by the liberal-leaning think tank, Cooper said there are 41.2 million working people, or nearly 30 percent of the workforce, receiving public assistance such as food stamps, housing subsidies and cash assistance to make ends meet. Nearly half of those workers, 19.3 million people, had full-time jobs and most were earning less than $12.16 per hour in wages, Cooper wrote in his analysis.

[Spiffums]

They should just put every American Citizen on the same health plan as Congress.

[stabetha]

And now you'll get socialized medicine from Trump.
And you'll enjoy socialism because...Trump.

How does that work without your cognitive dissonance getting in the way?

That's not what I was responding to. This was:



As that's the only thing Trump said, I am asking you what the problem is. Just trying to clear up the confusion between your claims of Obama's supporting insurance companies, in defending Trump's insurance for everyone. Unless you want to keep people thinking you are a socialist and not just bitching about Obama, you need to explain what in 'insurance for all' fixes, in your issue of Obama's handing you over to insurance. If insurance are bad, single payer is bad, than what exactly are you defending in 'insurance for all' in calling out Obama?

my problem was him saying "everyone will have insurance" means socilized medicine. I have not at any point defended Trumps "insurence for all" fix, and never said single payer was bad. I think there are better options for the US, but single payer is better then just forceing pepole to buy insurence while at the same time forcing that insurence to cost more and cover less.

[Felya]

my problem was him saying "everyone will have insurence" mean socilized medicine. I have not at any point defended Trumps "insurence for all" fix, and never said single payer was bad. I think there are better options for the US, but single payer is better then just forceing pepole to buy insurence while at the same time forcing that insurence to cost more and cover less.

Than why is your issue ACA and not the current proposal of 'insurance for all'? You even called out the 'blame Bush' rhetoric, while ignoring you are doing the exact same thing. If you have issues with ACA making it insurance for all... grats! ACA is being replaced! Now, is your issue still insurance for all or Obama?

[NYC17]

They already have a replacement plan. The sky isn't falling please stop with the fear mongering.

Cool. What is it?

[stabetha]

Than why is your issue ACA and not the current proposal of 'insurance for all'? You even called out the 'blame Bush' rhetoric, while ignoring you are doing the exact same thing. If you have issues with ACA making it insurance for all... grats! ACA is being replaced! Now, is your issue still insurance for all or Obama?

Insurance for all is my problem, I'm not the blind trump supporter you seam to think I am, I didnt even vote for him, in fact I havent voted republican in decades Im a regesterd Libatarian because they are closer to my values.
You are combining two different conversations to make some assumstions that are wrong.

[Barnabas]

It wouldn't be terrifying if everyone got the same deal some places get with their healthcare costs. Like if the entire US experienced what LA has nobody would complain about obamacare. Too bad the same doesn't even apply to other parts of california. Outside major cities in southern california you're kinda fucked.

[Fenius]

Yes, I am one of the privilege crowd. Because I have seen harder working people then me, not being able to make it do to circumstances largely outside their control. I have friends who started off top of their class end up homeless because their parents had a nasty divorce at a critical time in their teenage life, or because a parent had cancer during their last year of high school, derailing their shot of making it into the school of their choosing. I have spoken to homeless people at food drives who can't hold down a job due to a mental illness. If some lazy slackers get to game the system to go through life without contributing, it's the price I am willing to pay to help those who need and deserve the benefits.

I challenge you to educate yourself, and realize that poverty begets poverty, and that you can try to work as hard as you want, most times, it's not up to you.

http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/th...ord-on-a-plate

These are the 66 million doing nothing:
http://www.ibtimes.com/welfare-ameri...stance-2300713

In case clicking a link is hard:
In a government data analysis released Tuesday by the liberal-leaning think tank, Cooper said there are 41.2 million working people, or nearly 30 percent of the workforce, receiving public assistance such as food stamps, housing subsidies and cash assistance to make ends meet. Nearly half of those workers, 19.3 million people, had full-time jobs and most were earning less than $12.16 per hour in wages, Cooper wrote in his analysis.

Poverty begets poverty because that is what people are taught. Again Lets look at examples that refused what they were taught and actually did something about it. You are setting a bar that is to low and not expecting more. How do you morally justify doing that to someone? Do you really believe that if I tell some one they are worthless they will not believe it. People have a tenancy to believe what they perceive.

We all have choices to make. By your logic because I grew up in an alcoholic family and was abused I should amount to nothing. Because that is exactly what you have just said.

Your privilege view completely boggles my mind. "Oh I am sorry I am better than you. Here let me help you, because why, well you suck." I mean that is what you are saying.

Reading the article.

[Zan15]

According to the numbers on the website that is not the case. Most of elderly fall under Social Security, which to my knowledge was not connected to the number. It is actually quite detailed. You would be surprised what was on it. I will try to find the website and edit this post with the link. And too young to work is a joke. I found a job at 16 working fast food. Work is available just not the job you want. You maybe emptying toilets but at least its a job.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

Wait unemployment is welfare?

80% of that number after you take out the retarded unemployment figure is just food stamps...and the average food stamp household recieves 120 dollars a month.

Most of the people in food stamps are kids and elderly.

That same report found that nearly 45 percent of food stamp recipients were children under the age of 18, which according to NBC News is around 20 million children


. It was also found that nine percent of recipients were elderly (over 60-years-old), and 10 percent were non-elderly disabled adults. (The organization SNAP to Health, puts these figures even higher.)


Also two thirds of the households are working.
Hardly not doing anything.

[Garnier Fructis]

They already have a replacement plan. The sky isn't falling please stop with the fear mongering.

I'm going to join NYC17 and ask, what's the plan?