Iowa Congressman Steven King Abortion Bill

[Jorgee]

How is this even going to work in practice anyway. Even the strictest anti-abortion states seem to permit abortion in the case where a mother's life is threatened. Giving complete protection simply because of a heartbeat is too simplistic.

[Endus]

Or because its a CHILD, we also dont allow human beings under 18 to give consent yet we consider them human beings.

You dont consider the "brain dead" individuals a human being because they stop having brain activity? No, absolutely not. We just accept the fact that given the situation we can use them for the greater good, so we view it as morally acceptable.

See, again, this is just factually wrong. They're medically and scientifically deemed to be "dead". You're being hugely inconsistent, here, and refusing to accept what words mean.

[Cebel]

"Human being" isn't a scientifically-defined term. It's a legal one; https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/1/8

Biology will deal with terms like "homo sapiens", and "human", but they don't describe personhood; they can just as accurately be used to describe a human corpse, or a tissue sample, things that obviously aren't people. That we can use the same terms to talk about a fetus does not mean it's suddenly being granted personhood by science, because again, "personhood" is a legal concept; there is no scientific test for it.

Cool, so when are you going to infract the users in this thread? You're always hot to trot to infract myself and other conservative posters.

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See, again, this is just factually wrong. They're medically and scientifically deemed to be "dead". You're being hugely inconsistent, here, and refusing to accept what words mean.

Cool, so when are you going to infract the users in this thread? You're always hot to trot to infract myself and other conservative posters.

[Santti]

Your profession is being a troll on some forums. Enjoy your infraction, that is unless Endus continues to prove that he only infracts conservative posters to keep promoting the liberal echo chamber we have here.

This is me generalizing your generalization, but why do you Americans always do that (I honestly don't see anyone else doing that)? He disagrees with me, so he must be some sort of boogieman from that other political party that I don't belong to?

[belleflop]

Your profession is being a troll on some forums. Enjoy your infraction, that is unless Endus continues to prove that he only infracts conservative posters to keep promoting the liberal echo chamber we have here.

Don't think there is an echo chamber here. There's people with a functioning frontal cortex to which they have the ability to use their higher cognitive thinking skills. Then there's people who use circular arguments, argue their opinions are facts and use duck speak. I've seen conservatives and progressives in both camps. I just prefer to find out earlier rather than later than I'm having a discussion with the latter, so I can disengage and keep my sanity.

To the OP, as I already mentioned, it will be found unconstitutional just like all the other laws republicans spew out.

[Endus]

Cool, so when are you going to infract that users in this thread? You're always hot to trot to infract myself and other conservative posters.

If you feel a particular post breaks site rules, feel free to report it. I generally don't actively moderate threads I'm posting in.

[Machismo]

Cool, so when are you going to infract the users in this thread? You're always hot to trot to infract myself and other conservative posters.

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Cool, so when are you going to infract the users in this thread? You're always hot to trot to infract myself and other conservative posters.

You are the one calling people trolls, and you want to infract others?

[Cebel]

This is me generalizing your generalization, but why do you Americans always do that (I honestly don't see anyone else doing that)? He disagrees with me, so he must be some sort of boogieman from that other political party that I don't belong to?

Has nothing to do with disagreement. Has to do with if i posted the same "flaming"/"trolling" post I'd be infracted. Endus has a boner for infracting the conservative posters in this forum. Would love to see him actually do his job as moderator and hold his liberal buddies to the same rules.

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If you feel a particular post breaks site rules, feel free to report it. I generally don't actively moderate threads I'm posting in.

Cool, so when are you going to infract the users in this thread? You're always hot to trot to infract myself and other conservative posters.

[Thepersona]

Agree to disagree. Inb4 "no, we dont agree to disagree because I'm so smart, and you're so dumb you conservative trash blahblahblah". Enjoy your echo chamber, god forbid you guys be exposed to another point of view.

You're wrong, not because a disagreement but becausw you got your facts wrong. They 're dead. When a human is dead it doesnt have any right per se.

[Cebel]

You're wrong, not because a disagreement but becausw you got your facts wrong. They 're dead. When a human is dead it doesnt have any right per se.

Yes we know, you're a genius. Thank you for proving me and science wrong.

[drivec]

this has nothing to do with religion or women's rights and everything to do with protecting unborn children. aborting a child is infact killing it but most people would try to convince themselves otherwise. if you cant raise a baby don't have sex there are many other alternatives that won't cause you to produce a child.

[Kraenen]

"Human being" isn't a scientifically-defined term. It's a legal one; https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/1/8

Biology will deal with terms like "homo sapiens", and "human", but they don't describe personhood; they can just as accurately be used to describe a human corpse, or a tissue sample, things that obviously aren't people. That we can use the same terms to talk about a fetus does not mean it's suddenly being granted personhood by science, because again, "personhood" is a legal concept; there is no scientific test for it.

Just curious, why shouldn't we give personhood to all human beings? We can scientifically distinguish between a piece of flesh and an organism, as well as between a dead corpse and a live human being.

[Cebel]

this has nothing to do with religion or women's rights and everything to do with protecting unborn children. aborting a child is infact killing it but most people would try to convince themselves otherwise. if you cant raise a baby don't have sex there are many other alternatives that won't cause you to produce a child.

Now now now, we wouldn't want to hold the adults responsible for their actions. No sir! We're all special snowflakes that should get to do whatever the fuck we want with no consequences.

[Thepersona]

Yes we know, you're a genius. Thank you for proving me and science wrong.

I'm not a genious. I simply post facts... the fact is, a human is considered a human being when he/she is alive. Being alive means having brain activity

[Masark]

How is this even going to work in practice anyway.

Badly. Catholic hospitals run on that kind of nonsense, with bad results for miscarriage management.

[Santti]

Has nothing to do with disagreement. Has to do with if i posted the same "flaming"/"trolling" post I'd be infracted. Endus has a boner for infracting the conservative posters in this forum. Would love to see him actually do his job as moderator and hold his liberal buddies to the same rules.

Because Endus and the other mods obviously has nothing better to do than to categorize the users of this forum in a list that is the political equivalent of Santa Claus's naughty and nice people list.

That doesn't sound ridiculous to you?

Handing the infractions based on your avatar is just as likely to me.

Shit, just realized Endus still has that christmas cap on his avatar. Maybe it is true after all.

[Wyrt]

Has nothing to do with disagreement. Has to do with if i posted the same "flaming"/"trolling" post I'd be infracted. Endus has a boner for infracting the conservative posters in this forum. Would love to see him actually do his job as moderator and hold his liberal buddies to the same rules.

You've been insulting people through out this entire thread and I didn't see "Infracted" on your posts. Maybe you shouldn't throw stones.

[Coolascancer]

Iowa Congressman Steven King Abortion Bill
“Human life, beginning at the moment of conception, is sacred in all of its forms and today, I introduced a bill that will protect the lives of voiceless innocents.

[/B]

naw.. human life is not more sacred than any other form of life and we habitually kill other life forms without any wavering in our conscience or morals. saying that our country was created to fulfill certain rights that were given by god is just stupid and the obvious dumbshit thing you have to say when youre a politician with a religious *read christian/catholic/wahtever theyre all the same jesus freaks* base.

[belleflop]

Now now now, we wouldn't want to hold the adults responsible for their actions. No sir! We're all special snowflakes that should get to do whatever the fuck we want with no consequences.

You and your argument buddy are conflating the word child and fetus. They are not the same thing, at all.

[Endus]

Just curious, why shouldn't we give personhood to all human beings?

We do. Your issue is that a fetus isn't a human being, and thus isn't a person.

We can scientifically distinguish between a piece of flesh and an organism, as well as between a dead corpse and a live human being.

And a human fetus fails to pass those kinds of tests in early terms. Homeostasis is the big one; the fetus can't self-regulate its own systems until after the 20th week or so.

If this even mattered, which again, it really doesn't, since even if we granted a fetus personhood to make some people feel better, it still wouldn't grant the fetus any right to abrogate the woman's body rights.