The Terrifying Stakes Of Repealing Obamacare Without A Clear Replacement

[I Push Buttons]

Single payer isn't a fix, It's a clusterfuck.

How so?

They can both eliminate the profit overhead that private insurance needs and negotiate better rates (pretty much name their own prices since they will be the only customer).

The government has already shown it can it can manage large scale insurance... 70 million people have Medicaid. So they already insure 22% of the population and they do it for only 17% of the NHE (National Health Expenditure, total healthcare spending in the US), $545 billion... And medicaid is disabled people, poor people, and kids... Some of the most vulnerable groups that are most at risk of sickness and injury.

So please explain to me how the government can insure the riskiest segment of the population for less money per capita than private insurance companies can insure the least riskiest if the government is so bad at it?

[Zarc]

bla bla bla

For you, a Trump supporter, to go about talking about Nazism. Nazism is a totalitarian ideology. Totalitarianism is an extreme form of authoritarianism. Trump is an authoritarian. You supported him. You sir are ridiculous.

https://www.google.se/search?q=trump...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[Tennis]

Please never say this again. It was the mantra of the Nazi party. The Greater Good is an ill defined concept at best.

Nonsense. All the other countries in the G8 provide for their citizens. It's time for all of us to get on board with this.

[zaino]

my question is if we repeal obamacare and let private corporations compete, people say that should drive costs down due to competition


whats to stop big pharma and insurance from just colluding with each other to make sure they make the most profit? Antitrust laws have very little effect on big companies in the USA anyways (comcast LUL)

[Zan15]

my question is if we repeal obamacare and let private corporations compete, people say that should drive costs down due to competition


whats to stop big pharma and insurance from just colluding with each other to make sure they make the most profit? Antitrust laws have very little effect on big companies in the USA anyways (comcast LUL)

they "competed" their ass off before obamacare and it got us double digit increases and average increases much higher then post Obamacare.

[araine]

Give that money to the job creationatorists, and they'll creatorate those jobs!

correct we need a big redistribution of wealth no doubt about it. all that cash needs to be in the hands of those that create the demand in the economy

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they "competed" their ass off before obamacare and it got us double digit increases and average increases much higher then post Obamacare.

Exactly and that is why you cant go with a for profit system if you really want to fix the system

[Zan15]

How so?

They can both eliminate the profit overhead that private insurance needs and negotiate better rates (pretty much name their own prices since they will be the only customer).

The government has already shown it can it can manage large scale insurance... 70 million people have Medicaid. So they already insure 22% of the population and they do it for only 17% of the NHE (National Health Expenditure, total healthcare spending in the US), $545 billion... And medicaid is disabled people, poor people, and kids... Some of the most vulnerable groups that are most at risk of sickness and injury.

So please explain to me how the government can insure the riskiest segment of the population for less money per capita than private insurance companies can insure the least riskiest if the government is so bad at it?

Because medicaid regulates how much they pay providers, private insurance negotiates. Huge cost difference, they pay multiples less even for a simple doctors visit then your private insurance carrier does.


Also medicaid sub contracts with insurance companies to administer medicaid. Their profit margins are much smaller then private insurance companies make on private plans.

Medicaid like Medicare also has some of its "cost" hidden in other arms of the govt so it cuts their so called "cost" numbers. For instance Medicare premiums are paid for by Taxes and social security deductions, both cost are in those programs not Medicare's. so it makes Medicare cost look cheaper. Medicaid is funded by tax dollars, so their "premium" expenses are booked on other programs like the IRS.


this is why everyone wants single payor. but it requires making the whole system basically minimal profit like medicaid and medicare. Why do you think its so hard to find a medicare and medicaid doctor they just don't pay anywhere near a normal private insurance payment.

[Linkedblade]

All this discussion about the insurance programs, when the discussion should be about the necessity of insurance programs in the first place.

If government didn't have it's hand in healthcare in the first place costs would be quite minimal.

[Fenius]

For you, a Trump supporter, to go about talking about Nazism. Nazism is a totalitarian ideology. Totalitarianism is an extreme form of authoritarianism. Trump is an authoritarian. You supported him. You sir are ridiculous.

https://www.google.se/search?q=trump...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Nazis are National Socialist Learn your history.

[Linkedblade]

And I'm sure winning the malpractice suit after some quack permanently damages or kills a patient because they were allowed to practice medicine due to a lack of regulation will be a real comfort to that person or their family. "Well, Johnny was killed by medical incompetence, but at least we got a bag of money."

Don't see how the competency of doctors and necessity of insurance are relevant

[judgementofantonidas]

But don't leave people without insurance in the meanwhile.

don't FORCE people to have insurance.

[Rakoth]

don't FORCE people to have insurance.

Why not? Do you not have forced auto-insurance? What about liability insurance? Why should people be forced to have that.

I rather force people to have insurance that they pay at least a little bit for, then them showing at the emerg without insurance, and getting covered fully on the tax payers dime.

[psyquest]

and in the mean time in France we have a healthcare that is contributed by everyone. It actually cost me 40 euros for 3 people for a total cover, regardless of operations, specialists (plural) access, drugs bought, dentistry jobs, eye care etc.

just went for eye checks and new prescription for my glasses. specialist 75 euros, payed 0. glasses 560 euros, payed 0.

Looking at you in the US, and having the same back in the UK( free health care at the point of delivery), I feel sorry for people in the US.

The rich is ok, the poor cannot survive.

these are the stats for the US:

In 2015:

43.1 million people (13.5 percent) were in poverty.
24.4 million (12.4 percent) of people ages 18-64 were in poverty.
14.5 million (19.7 percent) children under the age of 18 were in poverty.
4.2 million (8.8 percent) seniors 65 and older were in poverty.
The overall poverty rate according to the Supplemental Poverty Measure is 14.3 percent, significantly higher than the official poverty rate of 13.5 percent.[ii]
Under the Supplemental Poverty Measure, there are 45.7 million people living in poverty, 2.6 million more than are represented by the official poverty measure (43.1 million).[iii]

from http://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger...ww.google.com/

I am sorry americans, you can, you should and you must do better. No need for socialism but this is wrong. When even a man doing two jobs cant get himself out of problems, it is a sad state of affairs.

[Wells]

Nazis are National Socialist Learn your history.

And North Korea is a democratic republic.

[Zarc]

Nazis are National Socialist Learn your history.

You should learn not only history but political science too, it appears. One does not exclude the other. Nazism is just another name for National Socialism, yes. That's just the name, though. What is it? It is a form of fascism. And what is fascism? It is a form of extreme authoritarian nationalism. That's the political ideology of Nazism. The political system advocated by this far-right ideology is extreme authoritarianism, which is called totalitarianism. Meaning that Nazism is a totalitarian ideology, e.g. it is a political ideology that advocates for a totalitarian form of government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

It should also be noted that National Socialism despite its name does not belong to the family of political ideologies known as Socialism. Socialism has it's own totalitarian political ideologies situated on the far-left, like Stalinism, a form of Communism, which is a form of Socialism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalinism

[Fenius]

You should learn not only history but political science too, it appears. One does not exclude the other. Nazism is just another name for National Socialism, yes. That's just the name, though. What is it? It is a form of fascism. And what is fascism? It is a form of extreme authoritarian nationalism. That's the political ideology of Nazism. The political system advocated by this far-right ideology is extreme authoritarianism, which is called totalitarianism. Meaning that Nazism is a totalitarian ideology, e.g. it is a political ideology that advocates for a totalitarian form of government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

Cannot help the kool aid drinkers.

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And North Korea is a democratic republic.

More kool aid drinkers.

[Wells]

Trump's cabinet pick invested in company, then introduced a bill to help it

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/16/politi...any/index.html

Rep. Tom Price last year purchased shares in a medical device manufacturer days before introducing legislation that would have directly benefited the company, raising new ethics concerns for President-elect Donald Trump's nominee for Health and Human Services secretary.

Catch that swamp draining fever!

[Zarc]

Cannot help the kool aid drinkers.

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More kool aid drinkers.

Well, had you ever looked this up in any encyclopedia or attended a political science class of any university you'd know this stuff. Sorry you don't. Though I believe this is even high school, if not upper elementary school, curriculum where I'm from. "We're all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid".

[Orlong]

You don't see a problem with a potential President mocking a disabled person.

That says a lot about you, mainly that you're a horrible person.

He wasnt mocking his disability, he was mocking his tone of voice and attitude

[Zan15]

All this discussion about the insurance programs, when the discussion should be about the necessity of insurance programs in the first place.

If government didn't have it's hand in healthcare in the first place costs would be quite minimal.

wait, what?

if the govt didn't get involved you think magically drugs would cost pennies on the dollar? or your doctor would charge you 5 dollars for a visit? you think an open heart surgery would cost a few hundy?

what magical land is this?

how the hell would cost be minimal?

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don't FORCE people to have insurance.

Why not? Do you not have forced auto-insurance? What about liability insurance? Why should people be forced to have that.

I rather force people to have insurance that they pay at least a little bit for, then them showing at the emerg without insurance, and getting covered fully on the tax payers dime.

lol 65+ years of forced insurance called Medicare, and now people have a problem with it. Not to mention forced investment retirement plans, auto insurance......