RESTO - RATE Tier Bonus Set

[Hygeia]

What do you guys think of our set bonus?

2 Set VS 4 Set having raiding in mind?

2 Set Scale 1 - 10
4 Set Scale 1 -10

I think 2 set will be strong and decent in m+ and our 4 set im not sure i dont overflow of happiness...

[Deleted]

They're both great. Next.

[RestoSpirit]

Hey

I think 2set will be great, since you are usually using WG when your raid needs healing, which means you would have Rejus+cults out anyway. I didn't do the math myself so don't take that for granted, but I believe its 1.77 HoTs where Mastery surpasses Haste in stat-values. Which again means the guaranteed Mastery from WG will be great in situations where you want to use your WG anyway.

As for the 4p, someone needs to do the math how much HPSgain and managain that is, could be bad though if you can't re-reju a target where the 4p proccs because of "A more powerful spell is already active". Guess we need to test that first.

Cheers
RestoSpirit

[Tiberria]

2 piece - 10/10

I don't know why this set bonus was buffed repeatedly during the PTR, because it's incredibly strong. 4000 mastery is ~6% mastery, and that means that whenever your WG is up, your total healing (excluding healing on targets with 0 HoTs) is increased by at least 6%. It's also effectively increased by a lot more than that, because you will have synergy with things like the Tearstone of Elune legendary, Dreamwalker, Spring Blossoms if you take it, etc., etc., leaving plenty of targets with extra HoT stacks/mastery gains.

It has a theoretical 64% maximum uptime, but the actual value of the set bonus is higher than 64% of the average healing increase, because the reality is - it's up while our WG is ticking, and that is when we do the majority of our throughput (excluding during Tranq). I suspect the set bonus is worth a solid +5-7% extra healing. We want this as a priority.


4 piece - 3/10

It sounds a lot better than it really is when you work it out. If you have 25% haste, you would have 8 rejuv ticks (7 full and 1 partial), and a 12% chance to proc an extra Rejuv per Rejuv cast at the 1.5% proc rate. That is essentially ~+12% Rejuv healing. Rejuv in ToV is typically about 20% of my total healing, so 12% more Rejuvs should be somewhere around +2.4%. It's possible that the Rejuv breakdown is just low because Mythic ToV heavily favors/inflates the healing of Tranq, however.

However, assuming it's somewhere around a 2.5% gain, that is pretty mediocre/uninspiring for a 4 piece. In addition, there are two additional factors that could make it worse than it is on paper.
1. Does it jump based on smart heal selection, random injured target selection, or just random targets? Unless it's a smart heal, it's probably going to have higher overhealing than your player targeted/smart heals, which would make the gain less.
2. Does it favor or only jump to targets without a Rejuv active, or does it just jump to whatever target it picks, resetting the duration of Rejuv. If it doesn't avoid targets with existing HoT effects, it loses further value, because any procs that go on targets with existing Rejuv effects with a longer duration than the Pandemic window will get partially wasted - at least unless you take Germination (which is unlikely to be a raid talent).

I suspect the other factors probably bump it down a notch, and the set bonus is probably a 2% or lower net gain. We should be the last Vanq user to get tier tokens - at least after 2 piece because our 4 piece is just weak.

[haniburr]

2 piece 8/10, it is a great bonus for something we are already doing which is great. The only thing i do not like is how it is a static increase of 3000 Mastery still a very nice bonus though

4 piece 4/10, this is also a nice bonus for doing something we are already doing. I believe this one is going to push more into the wasted overhealing than the 2piece would. The main question I would ask(which has probally already been answered but I have not done much research) is if the newly applied rejuve is a seperate spell or if it just updates a rejuve if it is proc'd onto a char with it already. and to that extent I would wonder if cultivation can also proc it or not(would guess not from the wording)

WTB Mushroom for 2 piece and mushroom explosion for 4 piece, long live the mushroom <3

[masterhorus8]

Here's a chart that covers our 4p and rejuv breakpoints.

The % increase that it shows takes into account that each tick can proc rejuv and that the procced rejuvs can proc more, using T/(1-0.015*T), where T is the number of ticks for your rejuv and it will tell you the avg number of ticks with the 4p.

[RestoSpirit]

...The only thing i do not like is how it is a static increase of 3000 Mastery still a very nice bonus though...

Can you explain why you don't like that, since static stats are really good for healers? And I think it's 4000 now

Here's a chart that covers our 4p and rejuv breakpoints.

Very nice chart, thanks for the work

Cheers
RestoSpirit

[masterhorus8]

Very nice chart, thanks for the work

Cheers
RestoSpirit

Credit goes to notarealwizard for at least being the one to correct me about the proc rate and linking the chart in the other Rdruid thread.

[Tiberria]

Assuming that 30% of your healing breakdown is from Rejuv is way too high from my experience. I rarely see it go above ~25% on even Rejuv heavy fights, and it's typically around 20% or lower on all 3 ToV mythic fights. I think you should set the valuation at 20% instead of 30%, which will cut the typical value of the 4 piece to the 2-3% range. That's not horrible - like our 4 piece BRF set bonus was, but I still think that a 4 piece that not only adds less than 5% total throughput, but also doesn't add any kind of utility or playstyle variance to the spec (the set bonus is just passive and you can forget you even have it) is subpar and underwhelming.

[Lartok]

Assuming that 30% of your healing breakdown is from Rejuv is way too high from my experience. I rarely see it go above ~25% on even Rejuv heavy fights, and it's typically around 20% or lower on all 3 ToV mythic fights. I think you should set the valuation at 20% instead of 30%, which will cut the typical value of the 4 piece to the 2-3% range. That's not horrible - like our 4 piece BRF set bonus was, but I still think that a 4 piece that not only adds less than 5% total throughput, but also doesn't add any kind of utility or playstyle variance to the spec (the set bonus is just passive and you can forget you even have it) is subpar and underwhelming.

Just very quickly looking at the top 3 parses for each of the ToV fights 3 had under 25% Rejuvenation healing and 5 had over 28%.

The 4 piece is just so hard to quantify, that chart for example only considers Rejuvenation healing, doesn't account for Cultivation, Dreamwalker or Mastery from a procced Rejuvenation increasing Tranquility or Wild Growth healing. I think it's perfectly reasonable to call it at least a 5% bonus.

[Alltat]

Both are good but pretty boring. They change nothing about how you play.

[fallenangel-succ]

Just very quickly looking at the top 3 parses for each of the ToV fights 3 had under 25% Rejuvenation healing and 5 had over 28%.

The 4 piece is just so hard to quantify, that chart for example only considers Rejuvenation healing, doesn't account for Cultivation, Dreamwalker or Mastery from a procced Rejuvenation increasing Tranquility or Wild Growth healing. I think it's perfectly reasonable to call it at least a 5% bonus.

It is actually much higher when you factor in the actual healing of Rejuv. Such as Cultivation and Dreamwalker. 35-40% is more the actual number.

[Deleted]

Both are good but pretty boring. They change nothing about how you play.

I like how resto druid plays right now so this is literally the last thing I want especially since their idea of creative change of play is brf 4 piece.

I also tend to use gemination if inner peace isnt absolutely necessary because of the synergies with tearstone. On our mythic guarm kill I had like 24% reju, 8% gemination healing. I think counting with 25-30% is fair.

[Glorious Leader]

Both are good but pretty boring. They change nothing about how you play.

Im okay with that. Dont need to be gimped cause i dont have it. No wild swings in gameplay cause rng.

[Hygeia]

@Tiberria, thanks alot! Knew i can count on your response and elaborate explantion. @haniburr haha yeah love the old trusty exploding mushroom <3 @masterhorus8 Great chart thanks!

Yeah i am myself a bit dissapointed about the 4 piece but atleast we are strong.

Thanks for all the feedback

[KrinKer]

Here's a chart that covers our 4p and rejuv breakpoints.

The % increase that it shows takes into account that each tick can proc rejuv and that the procced rejuvs can proc more, using T/(1-0.015*T), where T is the number of ticks for your rejuv and it will tell you the avg number of ticks with the 4p.

Wouldn't that make haste our BiS stat (higher priority) up to 33% haste then ?

[masterhorus8]

Wouldn't that make haste our BiS stat (higher priority) up to 33% haste then ?

Not really. Even if rejuv was 30% of your healing, you'll only be getting a tiny increase in healing when stacking a ton of haste.

[haniburr]

Can you explain why you don't like that, since static stats are really good for healers? And I think it's 4000 now


Cheers
RestoSpirit

I've never liked a static increase like 3000 Mastery(or 4000) Sure its a great bonus for us and it is one of the stats we actually like, but due to diminishing returns it loses its potential as we get more and more gear. 4000 Mastery seems like a crap ton when you have 5000 or 6000 rating but totally decked out our mastery is higher and its bonus wont be as impactful. Something like a "Increase all healing done by X% for 5 seconds after casting a Wild growth" or something along those lines lends itself to getting better and better as we level up and get more gear. The 4 piece scales a little bit better if we get enough haste to plop into an extra tick which we theoretically could do versus Normal entry bosses to Mythic Guldan.

[Keiyra]

Something like a "Increase all healing done by X% for 5 seconds after casting a Wild growth" or something along those lines lends itself to getting better and better as we level up and get more gear.

While I get your intended point - you do realize that the set bonus is effectively: "Increases all healing by 6% per mastery stack" for 7 secs - regardless of how much gear you have. It's always going to be 6% increased healing per mastery stack (unless blizz changes our mastery stat conversion in the future)

[fallenangel-succ]

While I get your intended point - you do realize that the set bonus is effectively: "Increases all healing by 6% per mastery stack" for 7 secs - regardless of how much gear you have. It's always going to be 6% increased healing per mastery stack (unless blizz changes our mastery stat conversion in the future)

That's not true because the mastery is additive to what you currently. So if you're at 0 then yes it adds 6%. But if you have 4K mastery and you go up, the boost is only 1.12/1.06=1.056.
That said, there's nothing wrong with a static value on a tier bonus. Your stats are more or less in a given range for that tier, and so the relative value of the bonus is known. It's like being disappointed that your tier legs have so-and-so int and not a scaling %.