Should Death Knights Have Been Buffed in the Hotfix?

[Deleted]

WW with 2 charges might actually make this skill decent.

THe problem with Wraith Walk has nothing to do with its duration or cd the problem is that it costs a gcd and that it doesnt allow you to attack while its active. it could have 20 charges it would still be shit.

[Deleted]

Lack of mobility isn't an excuse to be top DPS lmao. Especially when (as Unholy) I can deal most of my damage from range anyway.

It is when bliz said its how we should play.

On topic, cs unholy is now in an ok position.

[Farabee]

Really need a mobility fix more than a damage buff. On fights where I can just tunnel, I do fine with breath spec, actually more than fine and am top 3. Problem is if I have to leave boss range to do anything my DPS is in the toilet.

We really need Death Grip to pull us to the target if the target is immune. That would fix literally 100% of our mobility issues.

[Poisongaz]

Frost needs Runic Empowerment\Attenuation fixed, 7.1.5 broke it to proc less than 35% of the time.

um not sure you understand. In 7.1 RA was bugged and was counting frost strike as a 50% chance to give a rune back. They fixed that in 7.1.5. Also if your using BoS you are going to see a difference in proc rate for runic empowerment. Frost strike uses 25 rp per use so the chance that it gives a rune is 37.5% per use. BoS is 15 rp per tick and thats 22.5% per tick. They are individual chances each tick so even if you are using more RP over the fight you still might not proc RE as often as if you were using FS instead.

[DagrDK]

um not sure you understand. In 7.1 RA was bugged and was counting frost strike as a 50% chance to give a rune back. They fixed that in 7.1.5. Also if your using BoS you are going to see a difference in proc rate for runic empowerment. Frost strike uses 25 rp per use so the chance that it gives a rune is 37.5% per use. BoS is 15 rp per tick and thats 22.5% per tick. They are individual chances each tick so even if you are using more RP over the fight you still might not proc RE as often as if you were using FS instead.

I think people's argument is that if we were 'bugged' and performing somewhere in the middle of the pack, correcting the bug should have come with a super slight increase elsewhere to offset the effects. 4pc will help with the resource generation and the 'slow' feeling, but at least say something about it in a blue post or communicate it to folks. Now you have one camp saying 'fix Runic Empowerment' and the other saying 'The fix is fine, just offset something elsewhere'. Maybe a third 'Who cares?' camp?

[Adlian]

No DKs are bound to be in the middle/bottom this expansion. Blizzard will never let us outdps their precious DH/priests/ret palas/mages.

[Protean]

WW with 2 charges might actually make this skill decent.

Wraith Walk shouldn't be a sprint, but just allow us to use melee attacks at range while we walk at normal speed.


Think skeleton king from diablo/hots. Activate wraith walk, use festering strike and a wraith appears next to target and performs the autoattacks/abilities. It suits the fantasy of slow moving death so much more while giving an alternative to mobility. Sure we have to plan ahead more for mobility phases, but at least we don't suffer so much and planning ahead is half the fun.

I also like the idea of unholy being pseudo-ranged. I think it's worth expanding on in the future, even if it's only 20-yards "ranged".

[Sazabius]

Frost DKs definitely didn't deserve the RP nerf (and yes all the empirical evidence suggests it was a nerf)... other than that it's been ok for me, I've still been consistently in the top 3 in the garbage I run (Heroic EN mostly). I know all anyone looks at it sims, but actual real world DPS is more important to me and in that regard DKs seem fine (maybe not BLEEDING EDGE MYTHIC FINE but for the crap I do these days I do ok versus other classes...).

Wraith Walk shouldn't be a sprint, but just allow us to use melee attacks at range while we walk at normal speed.


Think skeleton king from diablo/hots. Activate wraith walk, use festering strike and a wraith appears next to target and performs the autoattacks/abilities. It suits the fantasy of slow moving death so much more while giving an alternative to mobility. Sure we have to plan ahead more for mobility phases, but at least we don't suffer so much and planning ahead is half the fun.

I also like the idea of unholy being pseudo-ranged. I think it's worth expanding on in the future, even if it's only 20-yards "ranged".

Totally agree wraith walk is a missed opportunity. It took them a while to even let us use it as a spirit... DK mobility is largely a joke, when I play my DH it feels like a platformer, my DK feels more like a Sherman tank. They gave us ranged Frost Strike which isn't too bad and often allows me to keep up IT when it would otherwise fall off.

[Kuulazurin]

Absolutely not.

Middle of the pack is the best place to be. Competitive and off the radar for nerfs.

Theoretically everyone should be middle of the pack, but again when blizzard for 2 years parades the idea of being immobile but doing shit ton of damage when in range and they fail on that, they should execute on that. And obviously frost needs a buff now that they fixed a bug that they designed the class around as it had been present since beta.

[Ald]

All i care about is where we are in relation to the other plate melee dps. I think we're in a good spot while others are higher than they should be.

[Hctaz]

All i care about is where we are in relation to the other plate melee dps. I think we're in a good spot while others are higher than they should be.

I agree other specs are too high. I think ret pally is a little crazy and the Elisande trinket is not going to help.

[Poisongaz]

I think people's argument is that if we were 'bugged' and performing somewhere in the middle of the pack, correcting the bug should have come with a super slight increase elsewhere to offset the effects. 4pc will help with the resource generation and the 'slow' feeling, but at least say something about it in a blue post or communicate it to folks. Now you have one camp saying 'fix Runic Empowerment' and the other saying 'The fix is fine, just offset something elsewhere'. Maybe a third 'Who cares?' camp?

Yes but they buffed other parts of the class and in the process made other builds very very good when in the right hands. We are still in the middle of the pack.

[Wolfman31]

No, DK's should not be middle of the pack. They lack the mobility and group utility that other classes have who also do more damage. This whole "slow but deadly" DK class fantasy that Blizz advertised for Legion has been a complete and utter failure. DK's don't have to be top dps but they should be better than just the middle because of all the other things they lack. Or Blizz can pull its head out of its ass and give us back our passive speed boost at the very least. They could also make Wraith Walk not suck complete balls. If our damage is going to be mediocre, everything else about the spec shouldn't be subpar. There needs to be a compensation. "Slow but hits like a wet noodle" is not the right fantasy of a class called "Death Knight".

[Deleted]

speaking of utility: BRING BACK AMZ outside of the pvp mini-game

[Noxinator]

As others in the thread says, it makes no sense that a class like the rogue, does the same damage that we do, and at the same time is so much more mobile.
There is absolutely no reason why the Death Knight should be as slow as we are. I know Blizzards class fantasy was: "Death Knights are the slow and heavy machines of war, that might not be as mobile, but will destroy others if they catch them", but that is not really the case is it?

I am fine with being middle of the pack dps-wise, but I fucking hate that we are slow, cumbersome and often can't keep up with mobs/players/tanks etc.

[DagrDK]

Yes but they buffed other parts of the class and in the process made other builds very very good when in the right hands. We are still in the middle of the pack.

Agreed and with the latest round of changes (nerfs to Affliction/SPriest) we will continue to be middle of the pack. I'm fine with that. No patch notes sometimes can mean a good thing. We're off the radar for a bit. My biggest interest now is where and when I can make use of BoS during the new fights. Going to be a bit of a learning curve and I'm debating on whether or not to run MG build for the first week of heroic to get the timings down, maybe bonus roll 4 piece.

[Schizoide]

I am fine with being middle of the pack dps-wise, but I fucking hate that we are slow, cumbersome and often can't keep up with mobs/players/tanks etc.

Exactly. The problem isn't the damage-- if DKs were top damage they would be nerfed. Lack of mobility can't compensate for damage. DKs get nothing to compensate for terrible mobility.

The problem is that running at 100% speed sucks, and is not fun. It's why I switched mains this expansion. I can't stand playing my DK. Pisses me off.

[Deleted]

they should reduce base movespeed to 80% of its current value and make that the new 100%
then give dks a 25% movespeed passive to shut people up

[Schizoide]

Yeah, because we don't actually find moving slowly to be not fun. That's your argument, right? We're all liars.

[Akusa202]

Yeah, every time I see a ret pally doing 100k more than us, I feel so fortunate being middle of the pack. We were middle of the pack pre-patch and they still nerfed us. Yeah, technically it may have been a bug fix, but the fact is it still lowered our damage and they didn't bother to provide any sort of compensation for it. So yeah, don't kid yourself in thinking that being middle of the pack will make you immune to the blizz nerfs, we're always free game because they just can't forget WotLK,