Blizzard honestly believes they "buffed" us

[Tharkkun]

A 8% buff is HUGE, you don't know what you're talking about. The issue with MM is that they changed how abilities function and made the class overall unplayable. If they didn't like Sidewinders being the best build, they could have just reverted MM to how it was at Warlords of Draenor.

It's not really unplayable. But to play it optimally you have a higher skill cap now then 3 buttons before. I think MM's playstyle has sucked this entire expansion.

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its not that i dont understand THAT, its i dont understand the griping from a class thats been competitive for ages, and the sayings like "heads need to roll" . its a bit ridiculous to say the least.

You don't neuter a class just because you were able to effectively balance it for a few expansions. You figure out where you went wrong and you fix it. If other classes are performing like garbage you figure it out and fix them.

In the past some specs performed poorly in PVE because of PVP. There was no separation between the two styles of play so buffing a spec for PVE made them monsters in PVP. Now they are completely separate so there should be no reason they don't bring all DPS, Healing and Tanking specs in line with each other.

[Firebyrd]

There is no choice.

You tank focus and then you marked, so unload that focus into a vulnerable window. That's all you do the entire fight long, spam arcane shot for focus, use a proc at a sufficient amount of focus, and then followed by 2 to 3 aimeds. More aimeds during BL and other haste effects.

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BM doesn't feel clunky, it's as smooth as it's ever been but the problem is still that the pets can be quite unresponsive or the entire opposite and spas out.

I don't know what you're smoking, but BM does not play smooth, let alone smooth as it's ever been. It was far superior in Cata/MoP/WoD. I don't see how "Hit BW-Spam KC and Cobra for 15 seconds, then sit doing nothing for six seconds, hit KC, sit and do nothing for six more seconds" can be described as anything /but/ clunky. BM is awful. Hunters are awful. They have ruined the class and this isn't "sky is falling" crybaby spriest nonsense either.

[nomey]

The entitlement is breathtaking.

'Hunters have never been the worst so we better not be now.'
'We have to be top 5 or go fuck yourself blizzard.'

Someone has to be at the bottom. Why shouldn't it be hunters? Why do hunters deserve to be top 5 any more than the other DPS specs (such as ele as you like to mention) who have spent far longer at the back of the pack?

That said, hunter really is disgusting to play in legion except for survival. Hope they get some fundamental changes. Let's be real though, numbers aside, it's not like being absolutely disgusting to play is a trait reserved solely for hunters in legion.

[Stangerlift]

The entitlement is breathtaking.

'Hunters have never been the worst so we better not be now.'
'We have to be top 5 or go fuck yourself blizzard.'

Someone has to be at the bottom. Why shouldn't it be hunters? Why do hunters deserve to be top 5 any more than the other DPS specs (such as ele as you like to mention) who have spent far longer at the back of the pack?

That said, hunter really is disgusting to play in legion except for survival. Hope they get some fundamental changes.

I believe the majority of the outrage is in the current playstyle iteration. The players complaining about damage aren't wrong that all three specs shouldn't be so low, but I agree, we don't have to be top 5 DPS. It shouldn't be so overwhelmingly agreed upon that the playstyle is unfun, the low dps is just making it more apparent.

[Firebyrd]

The entitlement is breathtaking.

'Hunters have never been the worst so we better not be now.'
'We have to be top 5 or go fuck yourself blizzard.'

Someone has to be at the bottom. Why shouldn't it be hunters? Why do hunters deserve to be top 5 any more than the other DPS specs (such as ele as you like to mention) who have spent far longer at the back of the pack?

That said, hunter really is disgusting to play in legion except for survival. Hope they get some fundamental changes. Let's be real though, numbers aside, it's not like being absolutely disgusting to play is a trait reserved solely for hunters in legion.

We don't have to be top five. We should be middle of the pack, just like everyone else. The real problem is that they ruined our class in every way imaginable and having all three specs be terrible is insult on top of injury. So yeah, I guess we're "entitled" if we expect to be able to do the job that's the only thing our class can do (dps) and even expect to *gasp* have fun while playing a game!

[PewPewArrowz]

hes good for sure, but the others are not bad. dont confuse what im getting at here. im not saying hunters arent low dps. they are lower yes. its a fact. im saying in a raid style format with mechanics and many other things, dps is subjective to a certain degree. lets take the most power dps class and let that person get hit with every random boss ability where they have to move/fuck up their rotation. lets say the hunter does not get targeted once. in this case alone (which is possible and does happen), the best dps will probably get overshadowed by even the nerfed hunter. im not saying you dont need a buff, im saying a good player is a good player and dps can come and go depending on the needs of the fight and what mechanics are thrown your way.

Listen friend, if your hunter is outdpsing anyone then he is either overgearing them by a fair margin or your players are just shit. Or 3rd variant, he never moved and stood in all sorts of shit, never caring about boss mechanics.

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The entitlement is breathtaking.

'Hunters have never been the worst so we better not be now.'
'We have to be top 5 or go fuck yourself blizzard.'

Someone has to be at the bottom. Why shouldn't it be hunters? Why do hunters deserve to be top 5 any more than the other DPS specs (such as ele as you like to mention) who have spent far longer at the back of the pack?

That said, hunter really is disgusting to play in legion except for survival. Hope they get some fundamental changes. Let's be real though, numbers aside, it's not like being absolutely disgusting to play is a trait reserved solely for hunters in legion.

Cause its one of the 4 Pure dps classes? I dunno, call me crazy but I don't think a fucking hybrid that can heal, bring utility and do amazing dps should be on top of a pure dps class. Only utility we bring is a fucking Missdirection and from this patch a Tar Trap, big woop.

[Vellithe]

I don't know what you're smoking, but BM does not play smooth, let alone smooth as it's ever been. It was far superior in Cata/MoP/WoD. I don't see how "Hit BW-Spam KC and Cobra for 15 seconds, then sit doing nothing for six seconds, hit KC, sit and do nothing for six more seconds" can be described as anything /but/ clunky. BM is awful. Hunters are awful. They have ruined the class and this isn't "sky is falling" crybaby spriest nonsense either.

Different opinions on a subjective matter.

I never liked old BM, I preferred the easy SV with all the instant casts being spammed at every single gcd. And while I wouldn't say I love the new BM, it's a lot closer to old SV than the mess that is MM - at least everything is instant and predictable.

I mean, waiting is not exactly clunky. Specially when it's a completely predictable waiting, you can prepare for it and all. Maybe the word you're looking for is "not fun"? That's subjective, but very different from "clunky". MM is clunky, the buttons don't mesh together all that well and it's downright uncomfortable to play it.

I'm sure BM is terrible to those who did enjoy old BM. In fact, that's something I noticed a lot from the Legion class changes. Most classes changed so deeply that they play NOTHING like they played before, so essentially people's reason to play them is no longer valid. I noticed that most people hated the changes to their main (which I expect to be because they no longer play the way they like to play), so they end up rerolling as a different spec and it works, because now the niche previously filled by their old spec is filled by this new one.

Sucks if a big part of your reason to play a spec was the theme, though.

The entitlement is breathtaking.

'Hunters have never been the worst so we better not be now.'
'We have to be top 5 or go fuck yourself blizzard.'

Someone has to be at the bottom. Why shouldn't it be hunters? Why do hunters deserve to be top 5 any more than the other DPS specs (such as ele as you like to mention) who have spent far longer at the back of the pack?

That said, hunter really is disgusting to play in legion except for survival. Hope they get some fundamental changes. Let's be real though, numbers aside, it's not like being absolutely disgusting to play is a trait reserved solely for hunters in legion.

I don't think there has ever been a point in time in which a class with 3 DPS specs managed to be bottom 3 with all three specs. This is difference between a spec being terrible and a class being terrible.

I mean, this mess wouldn't be as big as it was if only three things were different: no AP grind, no filthy Legendaries, MM still competitive. Those three alone would just have every hunter become MM and stop complaining. As it stands, people have real good reasons not to reroll and since all three specs are below the dirt, there isn't even an alternative, viable spec to choose. Ideally, all hunter specs would be competitive, but having at least ONE good spec is better than having no good spec.

I don't think Blizzard has ever fucked up this hard, at least not intentionally (there was the whole WoD "Let's nerf Survival so hard that people stop playing it!" fiasco, but that was intentional failure).

[spinner981]

I wish I could care about numbers tuning, but the specs are so awful to play I simply don't.

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The entitlement is breathtaking.

'Hunters have never been the worst so we better not be now.'
'We have to be top 5 or go fuck yourself blizzard.'

Someone has to be at the bottom. Why shouldn't it be hunters? Why do hunters deserve to be top 5 any more than the other DPS specs (such as ele as you like to mention) who have spent far longer at the back of the pack?

That said, hunter really is disgusting to play in legion except for survival. Hope they get some fundamental changes. Let's be real though, numbers aside, it's not like being absolutely disgusting to play is a trait reserved solely for hunters in legion.

Hunters bring nothing to the raid aside from damage. We should be in the top 4 at least, since there are 4 pures, and hybrids (as well as the other pures) tend to have more utility than hunters do. What raid utility do hunters have now? I think we have hero and like the worst brez in the game? Or did those get removed yet too? We have almost no survivability, no abilities that can be used to assist our allies at all, be it healing, damage reduction, movement speed, etc.. Heck, all we have are hero and being able to move while casting. Well, BM and SV has hero... and BM is a ranged that can move while casting. Non-LW MM is balanced to be terrible, and SV is melee now. Even our innate utility of being the mobile ranged class got shelved from MM and SV and just given to BM, who now has some of the worst pet pathing in hunter history, as well as playing worse than any hunter spec ever.

Hunter in Legion just suck. I unsubbed. I am checking patch notes still hoping for them to get fixed, but blizzard but the bullet and toss out their garbage 'vision' and just make the specs enjoyable again, and you DON'T do that by chopping out abilities one after another for no rhyme or reason apart from 'ability bloat'. They even got to the point where an entire spec was removed, and yes I count SV as a removed spec because current SV is a warrior spec for all I care. Like 2% of the hunter playerbase might have wanted to play a hunter melee spec and for it to completely replace SV, so apparently now all the hunters who liked or loved Survival can just get screwed because they don't matter to blizzard apparently. The spec is gone, totally and utterly gone. Nothing unique to SV remains except ability icons for black arrow and explosive shot, both of which function completely differently.

Hunter is a joke right now, an even bigger one than we've ever been imho. I don't care about numbers tuning.

[Deleted]

Blizzard DID buff you.

??

[Queen of Hamsters]

Not sure why people think MM is "ruined"... I think it plays far better now without the damned Sidewinders, with Patient Sniper and multi-shot spread of vulnerable...

[Deleted]

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...06063118643200

Cheers bud

[Firebyrd]

Different opinions on a subjective matter.

I never liked old BM, I preferred the easy SV with all the instant casts being spammed at every single gcd. And while I wouldn't say I love the new BM, it's a lot closer to old SV than the mess that is MM - at least everything is instant and predictable.

I mean, waiting is not exactly clunky. Specially when it's a completely predictable waiting, you can prepare for it and all. Maybe the word you're looking for is "not fun"? That's subjective, but very different from "clunky". MM is clunky, the buttons don't mesh together all that well and it's downright uncomfortable to play it.

I'm sure BM is terrible to those who did enjoy old BM. In fact, that's something I noticed a lot from the Legion class changes. Most classes changed so deeply that they play NOTHING like they played before, so essentially people's reason to play them is no longer valid. I noticed that most people hated the changes to their main (which I expect to be because they no longer play the way they like to play), so they end up rerolling as a different spec and it works, because now the niche previously filled by their old spec is filled by this new one.

Sucks if a big part of your reason to play a spec was the theme, though.


I don't think there has ever been a point in time in which a class with 3 DPS specs managed to be bottom 3 with all three specs. This is difference between a spec being terrible and a class being terrible.

I mean, this mess wouldn't be as big as it was if only three things were different: no AP grind, no filthy Legendaries, MM still competitive. Those three alone would just have every hunter become MM and stop complaining. As it stands, people have real good reasons not to reroll and since all three specs are below the dirt, there isn't even an alternative, viable spec to choose. Ideally, all hunter specs would be competitive, but having at least ONE good spec is better than having no good spec.

I don't think Blizzard has ever fucked up this hard, at least not intentionally (there was the whole WoD "Let's nerf Survival so hard that people stop playing it!" fiasco, but that was intentional failure).

Did...you ever actually play old BM? Because it was spamming instants constantly too. It was even faster paced than SV was because we had Focus Fire giving us more haste and interactions with our pet giving us more focus back, so we had to use fewer Cobras than SV and the ones we used frequently (or alwayas, in Cata) cast faster. The current BM is the slowest paced spec in the game. It didn't play like SV, but it was spamming instants and neither spec even remotely resembled current sit-and-wait-I-can't-regen-my-own-focus BM. And frankly, even if you think occasional waiting in a rotation is okay, occasional waiting is not the same as 10-12 second intervals with only a single ability used within them. I know that "clunky" is anathema to the devs, but I don't see how "spam spam spam wait wait wait" is anything other than clunky, for much the same reason that people mentioned in one of these threads that MM feels awful. Lots of instant spam, then long casts. BM obviously doesn't suffer from having to moving during the long wait the way MM does during the long casts, but it's extremely jarring to just sit there for long periods of time (which is very different from the occasional empty one global that some specs experience at times).

[Optio82]

We went from having a small niche to having NOTHING at all + having the worst shit rotation on the planet. Who the fuck came up arcane shot generating 5 focus. Fuck.

I agree 100%

And MM was at least fun and different at the start of Legion. I really liked playing it.

Now? Please, it is terrible -- Blizz said: here multi-shot stuff again, arcane to hope you get enough focus and then have fun with squeezing Aimed Shots. It is fucking horrible.

Blizz should have just left it alone. Instead they should have buffed the heck of Aimed Shot and reduced Marked Shot a tad...and we would have been much better off now, a little less AOE and a lot more ST -- that's all we needed!

Not this crap. And 8% is nothing. So many other classes (Rogues, Shamans) are in great spots now - MM just needed a little love, a few minor tweaks - NOT A GIANT SLEDGEHAMMER OVER THE HEAD.

O - and lets not bring up my 48lvl MM weapon and now starting BM at 7.1.5 at 34lvl. Thanks for that too. AP is so dumb.

[Deleted]

Not sure why people think MM is "ruined"... I think it plays far better now without the damned Sidewinders, with Patient Sniper and multi-shot spread of vulnerable...

Thats great, I don't.
I dislike patient sniper because I can't switch, the amount of dmg a lose (20%) as soon as I switch targets is not worth it.
I hate the spammy 5 focus arcane shot bullshit.
I hate that I have to ignore procs because im on 60 focus and need to spam at least 10 more arcane shots before I can actually use the procs.

Sidewinders wasn't the best but it was something I could get used to, this "spec" that we have to run now I can't, its just a mess and it did make me reroll for the first time in 9 years.

[Deleted]

The entitlement is breathtaking.

'Hunters have never been the worst so we better not be now.'
'We have to be top 5 or go fuck yourself blizzard.'

Someone has to be at the bottom. Why shouldn't it be hunters? Why do hunters deserve to be top 5 any more than the other DPS specs (such as ele as you like to mention) who have spent far longer at the back of the pack?

That said, hunter really is disgusting to play in legion except for survival. Hope they get some fundamental changes. Let's be real though, numbers aside, it's not like being absolutely disgusting to play is a trait reserved solely for hunters in legion.

I think that as a pure dps class we kinda deserve to have a t least 1 specc in hte upper 1/3 of the simulations not rock bottom.

[Stormcleave]

Elemental shammy has been my alt for 3 expensions now its always been good fun but now finally they have some decent damage to back it up .

Hunters are just so shit right now that I rerolled, never thought that would happen to be honest.

My Hunter has been my main dude for over a decade. I've always taken great joy playing the class...until Legion. The Hunter class for me just feels awful mechanically.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Thats great, I don't.
I dislike patient sniper because I can't switch, the amount of dmg a lose (20%) as soon as I switch targets is not worth it.
I hate the spammy 5 focus arcane shot bullshit.
I hate that I have to ignore procs because im on 60 focus and need to spam at least 10 more arcane shots before I can actually use the procs.

Sidewinders wasn't the best but it was something I could get used to, this "spec" that we have to run now I can't, its just a mess and it did make me reroll for the first time in 9 years.

Welp, they can't please everyone.

[Deleted]

Welp, they can't please everyone.

They are doing their best to piss off everyone though.

[Cryocryp]

Are these "buffs" happening today (1/17)?

[Queen of Hamsters]

It's not really unplayable. But to play it optimally you have a higher skill cap now then 3 buttons before. I think MM's playstyle has sucked this entire expansion.

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That's the thing, people are whining that "it's unplayable", but wtf is "unplayable" about it? And the "higher skill cap" still comes down to very basic elements. Were people REALLY so challenged by how the spec played before 7.1.5 that another layer of "things to keep track of" rendered the spec unplayable to them?

Not sure why people find the focus regen "spammy" either, back when we had a casttime focus regen it was still a matter of hitting buttons preemtively in order to never have a gap between abilities firing.