I really WANT to love Legion, but I feel like Blizzard keeps getting in their own way

[Deleted]

No, it's really not. Rogues (and in fact most non-magical classes) in Vanilla were about the approach on the fight.
Rogue in Vanilla was trading speed for stealth, positioning the back and unleashing a surprise and devastating attack. It was about control through trickery, CC, timing and slashing at a foe.
Rogues in Legion are some sort of shadow/poison casters with magical abilities and superpowers, that barely care about positioning or managing a fight and spam a lot of SFX-heavy spells.

No, it would feel consistent and stay faithful to what someone actually liked in their class.

I'm sorry but when you have any amount of AQ/Naxx gear you could literally crit somebody for 1200+, combined with an auto for 700'ish it would actually 1 shot a large majority of players in battlegrounds. If you're in a duel with somebody equal geared it was nearly just as fast paced. Sure you can go find some PvP videos with 2 pros dueling outside of Iron Forge but the majority of the time it's just a Rogue and Mage dueling for 4 minutes. If you play Sub you're pretty much a Rogue in his fullest at the moment, all of the things you described fit the Rogues in Sub spec now more than then. The closest to a spell we have is Symbols of Death, hardly a Warlock caster with an individual spell...

[Roar-Powah]

It's clear that when you have some very iconic people leave at Blizzard over the past year that there is some kind of internal issue that is making a lot of people unhappy. It's also showing in game with bad decisions when even during the beta people where telling Blizzard they are wrong etc. I've said it from the start and i will keep saying it, Blizzard will ruin there own game, which they are doing.

[Deleted]

Well you could just have a bunch of alts (like 2-3 melee dps specs and 2-3 ranged dps specs) which you keep geared and if your current "main" gets wrecked by a patch or xpac just play another toon that has more joyful gameplay or pulls better numbers or both?

(I am not this kind if player but that would help the problem. maybe its even fun or feelsgoodman that you are that flexible?)

[aziras]

Well you could just have a bunch of alts (like 2-3 melee dps specs and 2-3 ranged dps specs) which you keep geared and if your current "main" gets wrecked by a patch or xpac just play another toon that has more joyful gameplay or pulls better numbers or both?

(I am not this kind if player but that would help the problem. maybe its even fun or feelsgoodman that you are that flexible?)

I am this kind of player. The challenge is that in Legion that playing style comes with a big compromise. You need to accept not being competitive and sort of behind the curve. It is not possible to maintain a fleet of options and still min-max for endgame unless you play WoW full time.

That said, as soon as you accept that you are casual and cannot keep up on the AP curve on all your characters, Legion becomes a lot more fun.
On the downside, after that acceptance, your attachment to the game is much weaker and it becomes a lot harder to justify keeping the subscription going just to run another character through the treadmill.

Blizzard dropped the ball on this one, but they are in too deep to fix it easily. Pretty much the only option they have is to rewrite the story of Legion, push the final-tier story/raids to next expansion and rush it out. Then scrap all the terrible mechanics and blame it on a poor decision that was then redone.

[FelPlague]

the main problem with blizzard is (also they always lie you straight in the face claiming otherwise) that they DONT play their own games anymore - or at least not wow.

where do you get that from? we can see alot of them play... hell lore has a youtube channel where he plays, i remember he made a weak aura that makes a button pop up and a audio file play "HEY LISTEN" if he forgot to summon his arcane familiar
and ion used to raid lead (he still mythic raids)

[shonist]

There is ? That's a good thing to hear, I might try to pick it up once I finish my Skyrim run

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God yeah... I played warlock a lot in TBC and WotLK... When I tried it again in WoD, I honestly to God didn't recognize the class and had half the spells totally unknown...

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Except the fantasy itself has completely changed. The characters I play today absolutely don't feel anything like the ones I played in Vanilla. My rogue was a sneaky bitch crawling in around unaware foes, stabbing them in the back and lashing a flurry of slices that left them dead. Now she's some sort of dagger-wielding warlock with teleport spells, or a poison elemental...

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I still like chess after 30 years, haven't felt the need to change the rules.

i still like wow, no need the change de game.

and btw, i got bored of chess after 5 games.

[Deleted]

Legion is fun and all but it feels like they are improving and then destroying with each patch...

[Akka]

I'm sorry but when you have any amount of AQ/Naxx gear you could literally crit somebody for 1200+, combined with an auto for 700'ish it would actually 1 shot a large majority of players in battlegrounds. If you're in a duel with somebody equal geared it was nearly just as fast paced. Sure you can go find some PvP videos with 2 pros dueling outside of Iron Forge but the majority of the time it's just a Rogue and Mage dueling for 4 minutes.

I wasn't talking about PvP, I was talking about the general class feeling.

If you play Sub you're pretty much a Rogue in his fullest at the moment, all of the things you described fit the Rogues in Sub spec now more than then. The closest to a spell we have is Symbols of Death, hardly a Warlock caster with an individual spell...

I always liked Sub, but Legion turned off hard from it.
Sub rogue in Legion is about teleporting, shadow damage and magical buffs/debuffs. I don't see how it can feel like the classical sneaky killer I described before.

[shonist]

yes its a video game. a video game based on a fantasy world where you have fun by taking the role of a warrior, mage, etc.. remember why you started playing world of warcraft. It probably wasnt to brag about skada meters and world of logs.

skada/warcraftlogs?

i dont care about dps (and im mostly tank/healer). i care about having a fun spec to play. challenging myself. Those graphics will never inmerse on a fantasy rpg that i can play it only for the "fantasy". Im not saying that everybody should play my way. but my point is that not everyone plays this for the fantasy.
i really dont care about lore or anything.

[Deleted]

I wasn't talking about PvP, I was talking about the general class feeling.

I always liked Sub, but Legion turned off hard from it.
Sub rogue in Legion is about teleporting, shadow damage and magical buffs/debuffs. I don't see how it can feel like the classical sneaky killer I described before.

Rogues have been blinking around for YEARS now, how is this a new play style? Also magical buff/debuffs, there's literally 1 "magical" debuff which I explained above. Things need to evolve to stay fresh regardless, if you're scared of change then MMOs aren't for you, especially the ones that are 12+ years old.

[Deleted]

I cant go back to WoW again after Heavensward. Legion was really, really mediocre.

yeah but the community of WoW will always pretend like everything else is shit even if its not true. They will test some game for three days and call it trash while finding excuses for WoW which is basically trash for 90% of the content that is not endgame hardcore.

Also the whole "MMO must be endgame only and raid only" really hurts the industry, this whole brainwashing must stop so people open their minds to what MMOs should really offer

[Deleted]

For me it is more because I want to experience every class. I never got as far as experience every specc though. But at the end of the day, I always liked my priest, warlock and paladin.

But yeah, sometimes the specc changes are annoying. I used to love disc - cannot get a grasp on it this x-pac...so my priest is now shadow.

Yeah, I used to love disc, I just can't get used to the changes in Legion. I feel sad they've changed disc so much that I've come to dislike it.

[Socialhealer]

yeah but the community of WoW will always pretend like everything else is shit even if its not true. They will test some game for three days and call it trash while finding excuses for WoW which is basically trash for 90% of the content that is not endgame hardcore.

Also the whole "MMO must be endgame only and raid only" really hurts the industry, this whole brainwashing must stop so people open their minds to what MMOs should really offer

lol tells others to not find other mmo's trash, calls wow 90% trash.

the mental gymnastics here are amazing, quality bullshit.

[Akka]

Rogues have been blinking around for YEARS now, how is this a new play style? Also magical buff/debuffs, there's literally 1 "magical" debuff which I explained above.

A single teleport on a semi-long timer which is a spec-defining ability (shadowstep) is not the same as a constant teleport allowing you to jump left and right (Shadowstrike).
Yeah, you described Symbols of Death (though you consider it's hardly warlock-themed while I see it as very much so), but there is also Shadowblade which is about imbuing shadow energy in your blade and Nightblade which is basically Corruption with another name. All this combined is much more than half of your total damage, so yeah, it feels more like a shadow-based caster than a rogue.

All my Vanilla rogue abilities were clearly based on skill and roguish methods. Most of my Legion skills are just magic/supernatural. That's not a rogue anymore.

Things need to evolve to stay fresh regardless, if you're scared of change then MMOs aren't for you, especially the ones that are 12+ years old.

That's just a trite affirmation with little basis on reality, and the very subject of this thread.
As for me, I'll say two things :
1) Change for the sake of change is dumb. Only change things if they're obviously an improvement.
2) =>

I still like chess after 30 years, haven't felt the need to change the rules.

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i still like wow, no need the change de game.

and btw, i got bored of chess after 5 games.

You're the one saying they should change class each expansion, make up your mind.
And that you don't like cerebral past-time is not the point, which seems to have flew high above your head.

[Deleted]

1) Change for the sake of change is dumb. Only change things if they're obviously an improvement.

It's hardly change for the sake of change though, they're trying to make the game evolve to keeps the attention of the playerbase. They don't always get it right and it's not always popular. At the same time a lot of people really like the changes but aren't inclined to jump straight into an online forum to praise the developers as fast as players are going to complain about said changes.

You can hardly compare one of the greatest competitive games in history to a PC game like World of Warcraft, which consist of playerbase whom are a completely different demographic.

[Akka]

It's hardly change for the sake of change though, they're trying to make the game evolve to keeps the attention of the playerbase. They don't always get it right and it's not always popular. At the same time a lot of people really like the changes but aren't inclined to jump straight into an online forum to praise the developers as fast as players are going to complain about said changes.

I'd prefer they make much less changes, but ensure these don't destroy what's already not broken. Trying to make things change to keep the attention of the playerbase sounds awfully like "change for the sake of change" to me.

You can hardly compare one of the greatest competitive games in history to a PC game like World of Warcraft, which consist of playerbase whom are a completely different demographic.

I'm just making a point that there is no intrinsic need to change something if it works. You also don't see the FIFA trying to rewrite half the rules each year to prevent people from being bored to watching football - they just do, rarely, slight changes when an aspect of the game really drags the interest down. I wish Blizzard could have had the same approach.

[Deleted]

I'd prefer they make much less changes, but ensure these don't destroy what's already not broken. Trying to make things change to keep the attention of the playerbase sounds awfully like "change for the sake of change" to me.

I'm just making a point that there is no intrinsic need to change something if it works. You also don't see the FIFA trying to rewrite half the rules each year to prevent people from being bored to watching football - they just do, rarely, slight changes when an aspect of the game really drags the interest down. I wish Blizzard could have had the same approach.

You're missing the point that not everybody has the same mindset of you. Sure, you will find people to relate to on these forums, but there's a large amount of people on forums who are also here to voice their conflicts with the changes made to the game. Some players get bored MUCH quicker than others, if they get bored, they unsub. Blizzard wants to maximize profits, sometimes that's at the cost of a handful of players not liking the changes. The game has being going strong now for 12 years, they obviously know what they're doing. Any other MMO would have fizzled out YEARS ago, and they have been. World of Warcraft remains afloat, but a large margin, it's extremely profitable after over a decade.

Just because you don't agree with the changes doesn't mean Blizzard needs to change how they operate. Sure you can voice your concern but I can pretty much guarantee you they will continue to overhaul classes on a near annual basis. They always have, and they always will.

[Cuppy]

Blizzard wants to maximize profits

/thread and 10char

[Deleted]

/thread and 10char

Yup, I think people forget they don't give a shit and essentially just want as much money as possible.

[satimy]

Revert all classes back to MoP SOO

Activate flying


There I just made the greatest wow expnasion