Would deregulating the medical industry be so bad?

[Madwolf]

Right now, as I'm typing this with current regulations you have doctors and hospitals charging a outrageous amount of money for simple procedures that should cost a fraction. A clinic put in insurance claims of $3,500 for a 24 hour stay in under observation. The medical reason? Weight lost. They actually put in the paper work that they are charging $3,500 to monitor over a night a patient for weight loss. This was not a mistake as the clinic had to be called to verify this claim. A cousin of mine went into a Hospital in Texas because he was having chest pains. They kept him over night to monitor him, gave him a few shots and released him in the morning. How much was his bill after that? $16,459.89. How is that fair in any way?

This is only 2 example of most likely 95% of claims that are border line fraudulent and grossly over priced. Not to mention the pharmaceutical industries. If we deregulate them why the hell would they all of a sudden drop their incredulous ways and choose to be honest?

The cost isn't due to regulations though, it's because these companies have been protected from having to compete. The ADA was designed by Mitt Romney to keep the the same system we had prior to Obama in 2009, and just force everyone to have insurance while having to pay more for pre-existing conditions, and get dropped when it came time to treat serious illness. It was a way to get more money flowing into the pockets of the Insurance companies.

That's why when Obama proposed his version of the ADA that the Republicans stripped out the provisions he put in place to break up healthcare monopolies and provide pricing oversight.

[I Push Buttons]

Generkc drugs.

The regulations on generic drugs are already pretty broad... To the point where some, including the FDA, would like it even more regulated... Generics, while having rigorous standards, can still deviate significantly from brand name drugs. They aren't just a carbon copy, they are reverse engineered drugs that have a wide range of bioequivlance (20% below and 25% above name brand) and the only requirement for ingredients is that it has the same active ingredient, everything else can change (which can alter everything from the levels of the drug absorbed by the body to how fast or slow it is absorbed).

Not to mention total prescription drug spending in the US in 2015 was only $324 billion (10% of total healthcare spending)... And 80% of that was already generic drug prescriptions.

[Madwolf]

Or I don't want to wait 8 hours to finally see a doctor who then tells me I need to go to a specialist and wait another 3 months. What is your wait time to see your GP? I can see mine within a week in the states. I don't even need to come in to see a specialist, I can setup my own appointment.

Sure if you have a broken leg or knife stuck in your arm you'll get a quick turn around like in the US. But tell the doctor you're shitting blood and it'll be weeks/months before you see someone in Canada. You always ignore that part about your great care.

That is blatantly false. The only medical procedures that take longer on average in Canada are elective procedures such as a knee replacement.

[ati87]

Or I don't want to wait 8 hours to finally see a doctor who then tells me I need to go to a specialist and wait another 3 months. What is your wait time to see your GP? I can see mine within a week in the states. I don't even need to come in to see a specialist, I can setup my own appointment.

Sure if you have a broken leg or knife stuck in your arm you'll get a quick turn around like in the US. But tell the doctor you're shitting blood and it'll be weeks/months before you see someone in Canada. You always ignore that part about your great care.

You're basing this on experience or just stories you get from Sara Palin's facebook page?

[Shadowferal]

History has always revealed that deregulating any industry has always been a bad idea for people in general.
I can't even see how the hell is this a question.

[Osmeric]

Since when has deregulation = lower prices?

The US airline industry is a famous example where this happened. US natural gas is another.

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History has always revealed that deregulating any industry has always been a bad idea for people in general.
I can't even see how the hell is this a question.

Deregulation of the US airline industry was hugely beneficial to consumers.

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What he's getting at is regulations are bad, becasue it costs businesses money.

The big problem with regulations is when they are used by existing businesses to exclude competition ("regulatory capture"). Arguably this is the case in medicine. The US Interstate Commerce Commission has been held up as an example of this effect.

[Shadowferal]

Deregulation of the US airline industry was hugely beneficial to consumers.

It's not actually "deregulated" when there's still governmental oversight.

Bear in mind there are industries that may benefit from having more of a hand-off approach. (The DMV in NJ has this...) but government is always there to be "check."

[Osmeric]

It's not actually "deregulated" when there's still governmental oversight.

Ok, so you are objecting to the removal of all regulations, not reduction in regulation. In the cases I described prices were controlled by the regulatory regime, but this had morphed into a government-supported cartel system. Removal of these regulations drove down prices quite dramatically.

In US medicine, there are similar effects. Licensing reduces the supply of doctors and other professionals. State regulations requiring permission before construction of hospitals shields existing ones from competition. Drug regulations impose barriers to competition, leading to things like the Epipen fiasco. And laws dictating that best treatments be used drive up costs.

[Endus]

That's how small easier to treat problems grow into larger more difficult ones.

Does Canada have an oversupply of MRI machines? I imagine the most likely outcome of some one going to ER feeling a bit numb would get them sent you off with claims of a pinched nerve.

No, we don't. The hospital had one machine. I got pulled in because my symptoms boiled down to one of two diagnoses; an atypical migraine (which it turned out to be) or a massive brain tumor that could kill me in less than 24 hours if not operated upon (which is why I got the MRI so quickly).

I don't know why you pretend the wait times in Canada aren't incredibly longer. Endus said he had to wait 6 months to see a specialist. That's not acceptable in a 1st world country.

6 months to see a specialist for a consultation on a problem that was already being treated properly. There was no rush, and I was already asymptomatic.

And yes; Americans have wait times too. And that's without pointing out how many Americans just go without treatment altogether, either because their insurance won't cover what they need, or because they have no insurance at all. There's a reason Canadians enjoy longer lifespans and lower child mortality rates than Americans, and it's because of our respective health care systems.

85% of Americans get their care from their employer. The poor and elderly get their care through the government. There's only this small portion of people who aren't covered through these

These numbers are just obviously false. 85% of Americans have any kind of insurance at all. Only 55% or so have employer-provided insurance (going by 2012 numbers). 15% of Americans aren't covered by either employer-based insurance or government-based insurance, leaving them paying out-of-pocket, or more typically, just forgoing care.

[SaintTeapot]

Because snake oil was never a thing....

[Annoying]

These numbers are just obviously false. 85% of Americans have any kind of insurance at all. Only 55% or so have employer-provided insurance (going by 2012 numbers). 15% of Americans aren't covered by either employer-based insurance or government-based insurance, leaving them paying out-of-pocket, or more typically, just forgoing care.

One of the rare times where recent numbers actually are too old. 2015 numbers (2016 isn't out as far as I can find) -- We're down below 10% in uninsured. The employer percent slipped to ~49%, Medicaid is 20%, Medicare is 14%, Individual is 7%, and you have a strange 2% that belong to no category but are still insured -- private group insurance and such.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator...entTimeframe=0

So really, versus the numbers stated in what you quoted:
49% of Americans get their care from their employer. The poor and elderly get their care through the government (34%). There's only this small portion of people who aren't covered through these(18%).

That's 1% off, but all those numbers are rounded to whole percents.

[Bodakane]

At what point in history has an industry, as a whole, self regulated to help health or the environment?

[Endus]

One of the rare times where recent numbers actually are too old. 2015 numbers (2016 isn't out as far as I can find) -- We're down below 10% in uninsured. The employer percent slipped to ~49%, Medicaid is 20%, Medicare is 14%, Individual is 7%, and you have a strange 2% that belong to no category but are still insured -- private group insurance and such.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator...entTimeframe=0

So really, versus the numbers stated in what you quoted:
49% of Americans get their care from their employer. The poor and elderly get their care through the government (34%). There's only this small portion of people who aren't covered through these(18%).

That's 1% off, but all those numbers are rounded to whole percents.

Frankly, I think it's a little odd to describe 18% of the population as a "small portion". My main point was, however, that it isn't anywhere even remotely close to 85% of Americans who get employer-based insurance, and there's still a significant chunk who aren't covered by either private insurance OR the medicare/medicaid system.