7.1.5 Breath of Sindragosa Guide

[Yhcti]

How decent actually is this build? is it something I can play anywhere like raids/m+?

[Aivenarion]

I agree, for the first time in the history of Frost DK, it actually requires some thinking. I love playing complex specs that requires micro, because it widens the gap between a mediocre DK and a great one. As far as people saying BoS is not usable on certain fights. Yes, there are a few where it will under perform, but the majority of fights in EN are good for this build. We will see how it goes in NH. Playing this build requires a lot of macro thinking when setting up for breath. If I use it here what are the chances I have to run out of boss range as soon as I pop it? What mechanics could disrupt my BoS and how am I prepared to deal with them? Usually there is an answer to all of these, and if your're able to think ahead, then you will have no issues using this build.

Knowledge is key.

True words that everyone should understand.

Additionally, I may quote the Beako's post from DK Discord channel, which I found very useful in understanding essence of the BoS Build

People continue to make silly assumptions about "needing" legendaries for Breath of Sindragosa because they think that good performance with the ability hinges on prolonging it for as long as possible.Wrong. Prolonging BoS helps, obviously, but what people consistently miss or get wrong is how BoS actually works and how you should time your playstyle to adjust to it.Let's start with a baseline statement: As a DPS DK, what you are essentially doing is converting your resources (Runes and Runic Power) to damage. The process of this conversion is determined by your rotation, which in Frost's case is primarily via Howling Blast, Obliterate and Frost Strike. Cooldowns such as Pillar of Frost, on-use stat trinkets, DPS potions, etc, all improve your damage by actually improving the rate of this conversion while they are active. Now, there is obviously a class of trinkets/cooldowns, etc, that act as damage sources themselves rather than boost baseline damage -- but that is irrelevant to this example.

How does Breath of Sindragosa fit into this?While Breath is active the rate at which you are able to convert Runic Power -> Damage is far more efficient than with Frost Strike. The fact that you do not need to devote globals beyond the initial activation also means you're dealing that damage off the GCD as well.Essentially: Breath is mandating that you, as a player, frontload your damage into that window of opportunity to get the most out of it. This means that during the duration of BoS is when you also get the most out of things such as Pillar, such as the legendary Bracer effect, Potions, etc.Coincidentally, since you've already got all these buffs rolling, it should come as no surprise that activating Fury of Sindragosa and/or using Remorseless Winter during such a window also makes them that much effective.This is the same principle as to why Unholy-BoS was so powerful single-target wise during WoD with the legendary ring -- during the damage window provided by the ring buff, your AP -> DPS conversion was just that much more important. Obviously it had its shortcomings back then because of how the ring worked, but that's not relevant to today.

Now, let's use some logs to demonstrate what I am talking about.Here we have a Mythic Odyn log from the 13th of January:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-doneThe Frost DK in this (Navlans) is currently ranked as the highest parse on Odyn too, but it's always possible he'll be beaten. What's important though, is that people have claimed in the past that Odyn-type fights are where BoS "fails" due to not being able to sustain it for long.Opening up the log, we see that Navlans cast BoS a total of 3 times:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=155166

And indeed, his uptimes were nothing special.Cast 1: 46 secondsCast 2: 28 secondsCast 3: 54 secondsThese are all uptimes people have reported being able to attain with neither the belt nor the ring, so the fact that he even had the belt here isn't very important.

Now let's examine his cooldown usage during his Breath casts:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...false%24196770

As suspected, this is a player that understands how to get the most he possibly can out of BoS's damaging window. He aligns Pillar of Frost with nearly every one of his BoS casts to take full advantage of not only the effect but also his Bracers. He utilises the Gathering Storm talent because he values the burst it provides (particularly in the BoS window) over prolonging BoS through something like Runic Attenuation.


Now, don't take this as me saying that you should delay cooldowns considerably to all align BoS -- that would be incorrect advice. What I am saying however, is that ensuring you pump out the most damage during the initial burst window is far more important than ensuring BoS stays up for some extraordinarily long amount of time.This is also what people do not seem to understand marks the key difference between BoS before Tuesday and today: It's not just that resource generation talents were buffed (which was nice, but not really that necessary) but that BoS itself received a massive buff in how much damage it deals.

Obviously I wouldn't tell you that legendaries such as the belt or ring helping prolong BoS aren't good or worth taking. However, this notion that "Oh God mechanics will fuck me out of good numbers" is utter nonsense, unless you're telling me the boss you're attempting forces you to run out of range as a melee for well over 50% of the encounter (i.e. a nonexistent boss).So, to conclude once more: Stop worrying about BoS uptime and/or mechanics interfering with that uptime, and worry more about your actual play during BoS's duration. In an overwhelming majority of cases, people simply need to practice more with the rotation instead of blaming an encounter on matters of personal play.

Read it, it is very useful

[Jagorath]

True words that everyone should understand.



Read it, it is very useful

While quote is all nice and dandy, that's pretty much survivor bias applied to the success of BoS build.
You don't judge something by the success of outliers and best case scenarios but by majority of situations. (including those who failed and/or was unlucky)
Also, on a fight like Odyn m, to get good damage on BoS, you'll have to have to ignore some mechanics and/or be lucky, because every window of opportunity aside from first 30-40 secs of fight and some parts of 1st phase, is somehow aligned with mechanic that will fuck you up or mechanic that you will just ignore and be selfish.

[Hoeth]

I simply don't like this talent. I don't like "frantic" specs/builds, cramming as much stuff into small windows as possible, and BoS personifies this. When it is up, all I can think about it watching that RP bar and whether I'm going to get RE procs in time, or that "I hope I don't get the next debuff that requires me to run out and totally guts my damage now that I've packed all my cards into this one talent". It simply isn't fun to me, and now that the RA bug was fixed the IT/FP/RA/OB build that I preferred is apparently substandard.

[Deleted]

I simply don't like this talent. I don't like "frantic" specs/builds, cramming as much stuff into small windows as possible, and BoS personifies this. When it is up, all I can think about it watching that RP bar and whether I'm going to get RE procs in time, or that "I hope I don't get the next debuff that requires me to run out and totally guts my damage now that I've packed all my cards into this one talent". It simply isn't fun to me, and now that the RA bug was fixed the IT/FP/RA/OB build that I preferred is apparently substandard.

the MG build (IT/FP/RA/OB) is not sub-standard, it works and it's enough. BoS is better but only if you can play it properly and the mechanics allows it (at the moment there are not that many bad bosses for BoS)

A well played MG build is better than a poorly played BoS build.

[Amalkatrazz]

I'd like to ask a simple question: how do you prolong BoS without the ring/belt? Me personally, I only manage to get it up for 45-50 seconds on the first use if I use HoW then HRW then HoW again AS LONG AS I have good ME and RE procs and/or manage to AMS-soak some damage. Oh, I also find BoS easier to keep up if it is used on a big trash pack where multiple disease instances inflate RP generation.

[DagrDK]

I agree with the above mentioned post. Focusing CD usage into the BoS CD is what makes the ability so powerful. The ability to front load that damage for a period of time, have a period to 'cool off' and then begin with the damage again is strong. I have neither the belt nor the ring and can hold 40% uptime throughout a fight, but the only examples we have are EN and ToV.

It will take some time to learn the new fights from NH (which look movement heavy) and be able to maximize the BoS window. BoS aside, I think this instance is going to have DK's all over voicing their opinions on how slow we are. I can see some of the fights like Trilliax, Chrono, Augur, and Elisande being tough on DK's. Give WW two charges or give Unholy aura back, something to get us to and from the boss/ads quicker.

I might go MG for the first week or so of progression until I learn the timing on the fights and where I can use BoS effectively.

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45-65 seconds is probably the average most players are able to keep it up without the belt/ring. I have neither and consistently keep breath in that range. The ring or belt would allow another 15-30 seconds of uptime, thus allowing someone to get it to 90 seconds and begin pooling for the next BoS when it comes off CD. The dream.

[Poisongaz]

I didn't read all of the posts but i just wanated to add something about stats. For BoS you secondary stats mean shit compared to strength. like strength is 1.5x better than any stat that you could possibly get on an item. So much so that I have been seeing people run HoV to get a high ilvl Horn trinket. Talking about stats doesn't matter.

[Deleted]

While quote is all nice and dandy, that's pretty much survivor bias applied to the success of BoS build.
You don't judge something by the success of outliers and best case scenarios but by majority of situations. (including those who failed and/or was unlucky)
Also, on a fight like Odyn m, to get good damage on BoS, you'll have to have to ignore some mechanics and/or be lucky, because every window of opportunity aside from first 30-40 secs of fight and some parts of 1st phase, is somehow aligned with mechanic that will fuck you up or mechanic that you will just ignore and be selfish.

Indeed, I played Storm-Breath last week and I had to skip out on some mechanics (Nythendra, Cenarius, Odyn) in order for it to really be viable.
Everything else in that quote should be self-explanatory. BoS is more rune-efficient than Froststrike and is independent from the GCD, no need to write an Essay about it. BoS is an unflexible spec and its unflexibilty could potentially make it a mediocre raid-spec in most encounters.

However, I love it as a Myth+ spec. It provides good Single- and Multitarget DMG.

I disagree with parts of this quote (@Aivenarion):
Legendary's have a huge impact on BoS (poor) flexbility.
Most top parses have the Legendary-Ring.

[Hyper27]

I'd like to ask a simple question: how do you prolong BoS without the ring/belt? Me personally, I only manage to get it up for 45-50 seconds on the first use if I use HoW then HRW then HoW again AS LONG AS I have good ME and RE procs and/or manage to AMS-soak some damage. Oh, I also find BoS easier to keep up if it is used on a big trash pack where multiple disease instances inflate RP generation.

Hey man, a post above mentioned that this spec is not entirely about how long you can keep BoS up. Your uptime looks really good for not having legendaries. Meaning that your first BoS will be very strong, because you can use pillar+potion for it, and you will have HoW and ERW for it. Your second breath will be around 20 seconds, so don't bother potting for this, set up aain for 3rd breath. I recommend just playing around with it on fights to see what the best timings are.

[Deleted]

Hey man, a post above mentioned that this spec is not entirely about how long you can keep BoS up. Your uptime looks really good for not having legendaries. Meaning that your first BoS will be very strong, because you can use pillar+potion for it, and you will have HoW and ERW for it. Your second breath will be around 20 seconds, so don't bother potting for this, set up aain for 3rd breath. I recommend just playing around with it on fights to see what the best timings are.

The second Breath can last about 30-40 seconds (proc depending) without HRW if you cap RP and Runes before starting the BoS-phase.
In addition to that, AMS is a solution in most fights. Its a good tool to replenish RP when Runes are on CD.

[adamthemute]

What about a potential best-of-both-worlds spec with Frozen Pulse and Avalanche (3230032)? Haven't tested in raids, but looks to be better in mythics.

[Hyper27]

The nice thing about frost DK is how cooldowns synergize together. Individually they are not very strong, but together they add up to a big sum of damage. Going for a half BoS half M+ build would only break how well HoW and HRW works with BoS. I recommend either going the full BoS build or going the full Obliteration build, which also does very competitive damage.

[Deleted]

WCL at this current time is a little misleading given the fact that EN and TOV is on farm and a lot of the bosses are simply brute forced deeps into oblivion. We will only know BoS' true effectiveness once we encounter NH. Then the real discussion begins. I am thankful to have read earlier posts about the utility of BoS, this will certainly influence my decision to take on this playstyle in certain encounters as frost in the very near future.

[Deleted]

What about a potential best-of-both-worlds spec with Frozen Pulse and Avalanche (3230032)? Haven't tested in raids, but looks to be better in mythics.

Just replace Gathering Storm with Frostsycthe and it becomes a very good M+ Spec.

[Malka]

The fact that BoS can be interrupted is a huge turn off for me.

[Aivenarion]

Thanks to Magdalena, one more guide on Breath of Sindragosa Build was released yesterday. If you need more detailed and fundamental explanation how Breath of Sindragosa ability works you are strongly advised to study this document:

7.1.5: The road to Breath of Sindragosa’s resurgence
by @MagdalenaDK (Twitter), Magdalena#0612 on Discord / January 16th 2017

[DagrDK]

Indeed, I played Storm-Breath last week and I had to skip out on some mechanics (Nythendra, Cenarius, Odyn) in order for it to really be viable.
Everything else in that quote should be self-explanatory. BoS is more rune-efficient than Froststrike and is independent from the GCD, no need to write an Essay about it. BoS is an unflexible spec and its unflexibilty could potentially make it a mediocre raid-spec in most encounters.

However, I love it as a Myth+ spec. It provides good Single- and Multitarget DMG.

I disagree with parts of this quote (@Aivenarion):
Legendary's have a huge impact on BoS (poor) flexbility.
Most top parses have the Legendary-Ring.

Agreed. Absolutely love it in Mythic Plus. AOE damage is good when the adds are up a little longer (M12 and up) and boss damage is absolutely nuts. With lust, I can finish a fight with an easy 1M. This week (Sanguine/Overflowing for US) will be a great week to crank out some M+ and see how strong it is.

As for the last part, I have neither legendary for BoS. I average around 45-65 seconds usually on the first breath and around 30ish on the second. The belt would smooth out the off-breath part of the rotation as well as during breath, and the ring has a similar effect. Both are great, but they are not mandatory. I think once we gain 4pc and those dreadful empty RP GCD's spent on Rime go away, it should add several seconds more to the BoS build. 90 seconds is the target I'm aiming for.

That all being said and @DreadfulDave has done some great work in here, his last comment stands. If we cannot stay on target (Boss/Adds/Whatever) for a period of 45 seconds to a minute, this spec will have some difficulty. For this reason, I will most likely run MG this week on heroic to learn the timing/add phases/burst sequences for next week. A well played MG spec will beat a poorly optimized BoS spec any day.

[Deleted]

A well played MG spec will beat a poorly optimized BoS spec any day.

I have the same mindset. Although, i'll be exploring Unholy, despite lacklustre performance on heavy movement fights.

[bubbadubba]

Glad that it scales with mastery, but why call it shadowfrost damage instead of just frost damage then? Am I missing something stupidly obvious here?

It is designed as shadowfrost for benifits and such. The biggest one for abilities like this is usually casters, let's say frost casted abilities for a second, you casted a frost strike that got interrupted, it is a frost skill but this wouldn't lock you out of the shadowfrost spells.

The other design point which works for DK's is if a mob/caster has some sort of reduction to shadow or frost ability. I don't know the exacts but will explain it so you get the basic concept, let's say a mob takes 2% reduced shadow damage, then this ability would not get the reduction or it is cut in half to only 1% (can't remember which.)

It does work with our mastery though, it is just one of those odd spells designed a different way.

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Check Warcraftlogs man, top 50 parses on almost every Mythic EN boss is with the BoS build. Except for Il'gynoth, like I said earlier.

Could you still use it on Il'gynoth and just use it for the eye phase (and maybe the start..) I find Il'gynoth is not much of a dps race until you are inside and when outside I don't find GA extremely valuable as most adds we need to hold off on due to gear.