Documented Enhancement Hotfix Changes

[Imnick]

If Ascendance was 2min CD or 20 sec duration, it would surely be competitive. The last buff to it (+2 more MS regeneration during Asc) was a joke though, so that talent doesn't only suffer from bad mechanics, it's even numbers wise not competitive.

Maybe Ascendance could be made competitive simply by reducing the cooldown, but it will never become a satisfying button while it is a cooldown that essentially only buffs one skill, which you can't guarantee that you will be able to use more than a couple of times during its duration.
It needs to proc Stormbringer when activated and/or decrease the cooldown of Stormstrike while active and/or increase the frequency of procs when active, really.

[Guran]

Remove Stormstrike CD during Ascendance?

I know it's similar to Ele but if it works, why not?
Also, 2min CD would be too much 'competition' with Feral Spirits.

[Deleted]

With the hotfixes,

What would be the ideal build to go for with wrist+tn legendaries?

HH+Hailstorm+Tempest/oc?
to activate and make most of both legendaries fully.

Rotation wise, frostband and flametongue uptime + lightningbolt/OC will make it a nightmare of a rotation to maintain.
Like I will have 3 maintenance abilities that i will be constantly watching / and casting lightning bolt every 9 secs : ( what a nightmare of a rotation

I do not think I can manage this. so I will probably take tempest instead also keeping in mind most fights in nighthold are multitarget except two.

However with tempest i find that I run out of maelstorm fairly quick to maintain stormbringer procs and rockbiter isn't enough to provide me with enough malestorm in comparison to BF.

Any thoguhts would be appreciated

[Imnick]

With the hotfixes,

What would be the ideal build to go for with wrist+tn legendaries?

Rusah (who provided the sims in the OP) ran some more tests to confirm this very thing and came up with the below results:

On the topic of Akainu's and Eye of the Twisting Nether (Wrist/Ring) and Hailstorm:

Sims are below to back up these claims, but the wrists are STILL TERRIBLE. Wearing 2 legendaries to support Hailstorm is a .5-1% gain over wearing one legendary and playing Ancestral Swiftness in every comparable build. This is consistently true across no tier and 4p tier builds. It doesn't take a genius to guess that either the legendary Necklace, Helmet, or Trinket bonuses will be valued at much, much larger than 1%. Ring + any of the other 3 legendaries listed will be a much better option. If the wrists and ring are the absolute only legendaries you have, then go ahead and play hailstorm ONLY IF YOU WANT TO, you are not required to go HS over AS.

[Lupein]

Feels like we're playing WoW Fluxx and someone drew 5 different new rules including a play all but 1.

I do like that our talent choices are all simming within 20-30k of each other (without legendaries) but don't like that we've been on the bottom since 7.1.5. Nobody likes being on the bottom but I wouldn't really mind if being there was 3-5% less than the top. I wish they'd stop screwing around with every spec&class for each of these patches, and just focus on a couple at a time to bring them all within a 5% margin and make the results more based on skill.

[Deleted]

HH+ HS+tempest +fury with legendaries not included there its mostly OC.. we will use tempest more in night hold so it would have been interesting to see this combo too.

Thank you though...We are not comparing AS with HS

I wanted to see how much more damage we could do with the Hothand legendary build in comparison to other builds you provided on first page.
Highest damage on your first page sims is 477k 0p
HH ring akainu build is 497k 0p

So something is not right if you're saying this build isn't worth taking with hailstorm

[Imnick]

HH+ HS+tempest +fury with legendaries not included there its mostly OC.. we will use tempest more in night hold so it would have been interesting to see this combo too.

Well those were all single target sims.
We'll be using Tempest more in NH, but on multiple targets :P

[Gunwolf]

If Ascendance was 2min CD or 20 sec duration, it would surely be competitive. The last buff to it (+2 more MS regeneration during Asc) was a joke though, so that talent doesn't only suffer from bad mechanics, it's even numbers wise not competitive.

Maybe Ascendance could be made competitive simply by reducing the cooldown, but it will never become a satisfying button while it is a cooldown that essentially only buffs one skill, which you can't guarantee that you will be able to use more than a couple of times during its duration.
It needs to proc Stormbringer when activated and/or decrease the cooldown of Stormstrike while active and/or increase the frequency of procs when active, really.

Yea I agree, the SS proc rate needs to be predictable so it can be reliable and easier to balance. Lower CD would be cool but 3 min cd is pretty standard so doubt that will happen, but 20 sec duration is a good idea (esp if there won't be any other adjustments so we still rely on procs).

Those all seem like good suggestions.... At first I thought simply make SS like 5-6 sec CD during Ascendance, but we actually rely on SB procs since SB has bonus effects like "buffs the next SS" via traits and stuff. So maybe have SB proc right after using ascendance, then again like 8 seconds in. This would give you 4-6 SS's, depending on if u have tempest or not. It is a bit boring that it only works on SS and melee attacks, but then again alot of our spec now centers around SS and melee attacks (further buffed with stuff like WF and imbues). It would be cool if LL had some bonus effect under Ascendance too, perhaps it could transform into a cleave attack... aka "Lava Slash" similar to Elem's Lava Beam so we have a way to use it for either single target or aoe. I have used Ascendance at random times like leveling, pvp, or if I need the extra burst for a rare... and I think as long as it does high dps and is reliable burst then it will feel fun and useful regardless of the fact that it is kinda boring and only buffs one ability (but I would LOVE that old stormblast animation back... I think everyone does and while I know why they removed it, I still think it was a dumb reason and should be brought back).

[Deleted]

Looking at your sims I still think the ring akainu build with hothand deals more damage

Highest damage on your first page sims is 477k 0p
HH + hailstorm + ring akainu build is 497k 0p

[orga]

the first one is without legendaries or well with 1

[Deleted]

Looking at your sims I still think the ring akainu build with hothand deals more damage

Highest damage on your first page sims is 477k 0p
HH + hailstorm + ring akainu build is 497k 0p

Or you pick Prydaz, legendary legs, chest, helmet
trinket, belt instead of Akainu and go AS for higher.

If Akainu and EotN are your only 2 legendaries, you could?go HS on pure single target. Even then, AS pulls ahead witj additional targets or our new BIS trinket.

For your sake. Ignore Hailstorm and try to avpid Akainu. Especially with 4p.

[Deleted]

Do you guys think, BF + AS + Tempest + CS
is a good AOE build for the first boss in Nighthold?

[MasterOfNone]

So what I'm seeing is talents are predicated by legendaries. Is anyone aware of a current compilation of what is best without four set and with other legendaries? In my case would be ring and waist. Additionally, I'm not seeing a lot of concrete evidence on FoA. This talent is junk and I'm hoping there is a better substitution without 4 set

[Deleted]

So what I'm seeing is talents are predicated by legendaries. Is anyone aware of a current compilation of what is best without four set and with other legendaries? In my case would be ring and waist. Additionally, I'm not seeing a lot of concrete evidence on FoA. This talent is junk and I'm hoping there is a better substitution without 4 set

With any other legendary and ring ( except akainu which you MAY want to use with hailstorm) you will want to be using Ancestral Swiftness + Rockbuilder build either with Windsong and Hothand, they are quite close in damage. All go with Fury of Air well but do not take FOA with boulderfist ever you will run dry.

You take - Overcharge for strictly single target fights, and windsong is a strong single target Cd too - but for cleave/ aoe swap for Tempest

Heavy aoe - go for Boulderfist + Tempest +AS build with Crashing Storms - as you know waist/cloak/ring any aoe leg

[MasterOfNone]

With any other legendary and ring ( except akainu which you MAY want to use with hailstorm) you will be want to be using Ancestral Swiftness + Rockbuilder build either with Windsong and Hothand, they are quite close in damage. All go with Fury of Air well but do not take FOA with boulderfist ever you will run dry.

You take - Overcharge for strictly single target fights, and windsong is a strong single target Cd too - but for cleave/ aoe swap for Tempest

Heavy aoe - go for Boulderfist + Tempest +AS build with Crashing Storms - as you know waist/cloak/ring any aoe leg

Thanks for the response. Some of this can be a bit confusing as some people are making it seem FOA is not viable anymore (which would be fantastic)

[Imnick]

Once you get the 4 set the optimal build takes Boulderfist and consequently drops FoA, you don't want to run both at the same time.
It's still viable but less advisable to continue to run WS/HH and then pick FoA though.

If you don't like FoA I'd just advise bullying your loot council so you get 4 set ASAP :P

[Futhark]

I am not a bleeding edge player, but I love the fact that Overcharge hits like a truck.

[Deleted]

Todays simc nightly build shown old HS spec on top for me.
Can anyone cofirm?

[Guran]

Todays simc nightly build shown old HS spec on top for me.
Can anyone cofirm?

I can confirm that it shows on top for you.
I can also confirm that for my own gear, it's about a fart and a cough behind HH/AS/FoA.

Using various trinkets I picked up in the past and legendaries I don't actually own, both builds sim within 1-2% of eachother, without using modified APLs.
While they're never perfectly identical in DPS, I think they are close enough to eachother that you can take the one you play better or have the gear for.
In my opinion, the difference in talent builds is so minimal that I find Blizzard has succeeded in making viable choices, except for Sundering & the last row.
Now they just need to nerf all the other classes to our level

[MakeMeLaugh]

Without SA I feel like I get almost no stormbringer procs. That trinket really changed gameplay and made it awesome, too bad they had to nerf it for whatever reason. I find myself sometimes with nothing to do but spam lava lash for a really long time many times....