PVP vs PVE - Why PVE limits a player

[Deleted]

Not just "something" I vanquished the biggest ones Blizzard has ever spawned

Deathwing isn't difficult to solo

[tikcol]

My point still stands.

I believe I vanquished that one too.

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Deathwing isn't difficult to solo

Any competent PvPer agrees with you

[Amerissis]

PvE players limits WoW IQ. What does it even mean? IQ is intelligence, that doesn't get limited by what you do. WoW IQ is... what? I think you confuse IQ with knowledgeor proficiency. Knowledge can be limited and of the WoW variant, IQ is IQ, not different based on what you do.

So I gues you mean PvE requires less knowledge of the game to be good at it? Yes, probably true, unless you are raidleader. Then you still need to know all classes and their capabilities. Tanks need to know that too, so they know when a dps or healer can feign, selfheal, etc. so they know when to help out. Healer same, they prioritize heals and it would be a waste to heal someone who was just about to selfheal. Only dps might not have to know a lot about all classes, as they are usually just focussed on dps and movement, unless they need to interrupt. Hm, maybe PvE requires just as much knowledge as PvP...

Anyway, having said all that. So what?

[Leih]

Don't feed the you-know-what, folks. This kind of topic has been discussed to death and I'm pretty sure it's not allowed here. Just report this and move on.

[Deleted]

Anyway this car crash cock measurement thread has already bored me so o/

[darkwarrior42]

Give them a week and they'll out dps you while picking their nostrils.

Give a pve player a week to learn pvp and they most likely will quit and blame "balance issues"

Let's be honest about things.

Doesn't usually take me that long to quit again.

Of course, my reasoning has nothing to do with balance, and everything to do with the arrogant attitudes I get sick of dealing with about 10 seconds after trying to get back into PvP...

[cFortyfive]

I don't know why people PvP in MMORPGs, that's what FPS, MOBA, Beat 'em Ups and Racing games are for...

Well judging by the tournament structure you have left in wow most people actually did.

[OrcsRLame]

I believe I vanquished that one too.

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Any competent PvPer agrees with you

I'd be willing to bet you've never tanked a mythic 15 or higher.

[Deleted]

No they wouldn't. Plenty of PVPers hate PVE BECAUSE they can't handle it. If the very best players of the game (and they're often skilled in PVP as well) can't PVE while "picking their nostrils", people such as yourself sure as hell can't.

Fact.

That's a pretty large assumption. I think you would find PvPers aren't interested in PvE because it's just not competitive also there's no instant gratification which lots of players who PvP love. I do both and I've achieved pretty big things on either side. I can honestly say it's 2 completely different playstayles which will cater to 2 completely different types of players. Mechanically and skillwise PvP will always take the cake because you are, in fact dealing with players who may be predictable in setup, will be unpredictable in playstyle. I'm not devaluing PvE in anyway but it's the easier of the two, it is however still extremely challenging due to the coordination required by 20 players, combined with finding 20 players who can preform well under pressure.

I wouldn't go out and say top end PvPer's can't PvE well, if you can PvP well chances are you can control your character under pressure well combined with great mechanics and reactions all while maintaining a "rotation" of some sort. All of the skills required to PvE. Getting along with other players is another story

[tikcol]

I'd be willing to bet you've never tanked a mythic 15 or higher.

I've healed it and I knew very quickly the tank had no idea how harder it is to heal it.

Harder doesn't mean it's hard, it just means that healing is harder than tanking

[OrcsRLame]

I've healed it and I knew very quickly the tank had no idea how harder it is to heal it.

Harder doesn't mean it's hard, it just means that healing is harder than tanking

How can you know without having done it?

[Kolvarg]

Thoughts?

The whole notion that there's a "WoW IQ" is silly. Especially since PvE and PvP require different skillsets and mentalities as you say yourself. I've known people who are very good in PvE but absolutely atrocious in PvP, and people who are excellent in PvP but couldn't even aknowledge the "rules" of the trinity and would simply pull everything and kill themselves and/or their group, as well as people who are good or bad at both.

Not saying it's directly equivalent, but the logic step is equal to saying an illiterate hunter-gatherer from a reclusive tribe has more IQ than a professor at an university because he knows how to hunt and be sneaky and has fast reflexes and quick thinking, while the professor only deals with books and his classes which have a linear process. Doesn't make much sense does it?


Either way, you either compare casual pve to casual pvp, or competitive pve to competitive pvp.

Competitive PvE is not "Watching YouTube videos of better guilds than yours doing boss fights and then trying to repeat those same feats" certainly not in all fights. The competitive raiding guilds might have some reference and footage from Beta/PTR, but that's about it. They have to come up with their own tactics, positioning and meticulously synchronize 20 people, of course in some fights more than in others. And they have to be on top of their game, sometimes in multiple characters, to absolutely maximize their potential for their group.

Yes, in theory it's straightforward and simple. But in practice there's a reason there's even a very limited number of people actually raiding mythic "casually" (ie kill a few mythic bosses many weeks after the raid is released), let alone actually competing for World or Regional rankings. Just like not actually that many people can actually play on a competitive PvP level.

Because let's face it, when it comes to non-competitive gameplay, the vast majority of players, both in PvE and PvP, aren't very good. And just as "common" PvE people will watch videos and guides the competitive people write, "common" PvP people will read guids on their class, their arena composition, so on. The only real difference really is the "human" component, which yes, in the more competitive scenarios I'm sure provide a higher challenge than most PvE bosses (perhaps not as much as some of the harder and more tightly tuned bosses, it's arguable). But the same way it can provide a higher challenge through non-linearity, it can also provide an easier challenge through human mistake, which doesn't happen with PvE bosses, but can happen with PvP especially at a non-competitive level.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I wouldn't go out and say top end PvPer's can't PvE well, if you can PvP well chances are you can control your character under pressure well combined with great mechanics and reactions all while maintaining a "rotation" of some sort. All of the skills required to PvE. Getting along with other players is another story

And it's still a fact. Being at the top in one area doesn't automatically mean you'd be at the top in another.

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*snip*

Because let's face it, when it comes to non-competitive gameplay, the vast majority of players, both in PvE and PvP, aren't very good. And just as "common" PvE people will watch videos and guides the competitive people write, "common" PvP people will read guids on their class, their arena composition, so on. The only real difference really is the "human" component, which yes, in the more competitive scenarios I'm sure provide a higher challenge than most PvE bosses (perhaps not as much as some of the harder and more tightly tuned bosses, it's arguable). But the same way it can provide a higher challenge through non-linearity, it can also provide an easier challenge through human mistake, which doesn't happen with PvE bosses, but can happen with PvP especially at a non-competitive level.

+1, could refer to your post whenever someone starts a thread like this.

[doryski33]

First off, I'd like to state the following -
PvE Raiding - The fight is NEVER the same, if you think so, you are not even worth debating with. We are all humans every single fight will be different, now how big or how small sure, I can see what you mean possibly. But to end game raid you need to know your class down to a T. Maybe casual raider (as I am assuming you are) you just go into a raid maybe normal maybe heroic, and casually click your buttons in which you think is the best rotation.

For progression / mythic raiders, you are constantly calculating what move will build your resources to (x) amount the fastest to use the move that will deal majority of your damage, while also mitigating / positioning yourself best for the next boss move. On top of that all the days you spent on target dummies / fourms min maxing your secondaries to get the perfect amount of survivability and damage.

Now for the carebear PvPers, lets lay it down,

Gear ilevel no longer matters, you can be a nasty causual and get boosted to those who actually put real time and effort into the game.
Every class has certain CD's you are looking for to be popped, once popped you either know if you've won or you've lost. Its simple, get a hpally to pop an early bubble and you've won the arena. Its very similar to raids where yes every battle is different, but in the grand scheme of things you are simply waiting on the same machincs we are. expect the fact that you don't need to know how to min max your toon because blizzard will even the ilevel regardless. ON TOP OF THAT, simply fucking google "best 2v2 comp" play that comp and win reguardless, I rarely PvP and did that last season... guess fucking what... im glad. It's probably the simplist part of wow next to wquest.

[Queen of Hamsters]

PvP definitely improves you as a player.

Can honestly say that PVP has never helped me improve in requirements put on the player by PVE. I've gotten better at PVP from doing PVP, nothing else.
And return to the fact that many PVPers, can't PVE worth shit.

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Gear ilevel no longer matters, you can be a nasty causual and get boosted to those who actually put real time and effort into the game..

Means skill matters more. That "nasty casual" will be outPLAYED, not outGEARED.

[cFortyfive]

That's a pretty large assumption. I think you would find PvPers aren't interested in PvE because it's just not competitive also there's no instant gratification which lots of players who PvP love. I do both and I've achieved pretty big things on either side. )

If it's mostly about being competitive - how competitive is a game though these days if there is no money up for grabs ? Aside from the Blizzcon charity gala there doesn't seem to be much left.

[Soikona]

Give them a week and they'll out dps you while picking their nostrils.

Give a pve player a week to learn pvp and they most likely will quit and blame "balance issues"

Let's be honest about things.

Coming from the same guy that doesn't want to socialise in aMMO

[Sativ]

Coming from the same guy that doesn't want to socialise in aMMO

He's right though. PvE depends on 24 other people not being retarded. Your job is to 'not be retarded' just like them.
PvP depends on your ability to out play other players (or play OP comps and mouth breath your way to titles)

One your job is to 'not fall on your face'
the other your job is 'to out perform your enemy'

[Deleted]

The comparison between PvP and PvE is just retarded for plenty of reasons. They are just different things.. And people who claim PvP is hard don't even get how the ladder works.

[tikcol]

Coming from the same guy that doesn't want to socialise in aMMO

I wonder where is the correlation (?)