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  1. #1241
    An additional 8% to the BM numbers puts it at 588169 with tier and 536629 without, so roughly 0.6% behind MM with tier and 4.8% ahead without. Pretty damn close if that's the case, considering the impact actual raid boss environments can have on MM.

  2. #1242
    By the way, I wonder: is current mm apl taking into account prioritizing Ai casted on last seconds of vulnerable?
    If it uses script like: cast WB, cast Ai if enough focus, cast As if not enough focus (WB>Ai>As>AS>Ai), when in reality we should WB>As>AS>Ai>Ai (of cause, without overfocusing), numbers are severely innacurate
    Last edited by Daerron; 2017-01-16 at 01:15 PM.

  3. #1243
    Deleted
    yo forgive me if i lost it but cant see the combination about 54 traits bm 910 apex+mantle sim

  4. #1244
    Sorry to hear about your wife effin, hope she gets better soon.

  5. #1245
    Deleted
    http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

    WTF Effin why there are melee trinket TOP?

  6. #1246
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad View Post
    http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

    WTF Effin why there are melee trinket TOP?
    From what I heard the frond actually moreso benefits classes who auto slowly rather than fast ones.(All the rogues and enh shamans in my raid have said it's not great for them)
    Finbez
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological
    if only WoW had come out when I was a teenager. Back then online gaming consisted of text-based MUDs....I could type "kill orc" faster than any of my competition, brosephs, and played a mean giantman cleric.

  7. #1247
    Quote Originally Posted by Finbezz View Post
    From what I heard the frond actually moreso benefits classes who auto slowly rather than fast ones.(All the rogues and enh shamans in my raid have said it's not great for them)
    I think he meant the draught of souls. It only drops for melee specializations (SV included, though). Frond drops for everyone. Has the draught been tested on a ranged character? I'm imagining it showing a message saying it can't be used by non-melee specializations (something else did this for non-ranged, I just can't remember what it was). Maybe it does work though, I have no idea.

    edit: Everyone was poor wording. Everyone that uses auto-attacks*, non-casters, etc
    Last edited by Spiralphoenix; 2017-01-17 at 11:56 AM.
    Main - Spirál - Hunter

  8. #1248
    Trinkets have been reran for MM and BM, and I've added Kiljaeden's legendary trinket to each list. SV is still running.

    MM: http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html
    BM: http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

    I have meetings this morning, but I will try to get resims going of what we have in the BM module as soon as possible. I haven't checked to see if the KC buff is fully implemented yet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    I think he meant the draught of souls. It only drops for melee specializations (SV included, though). Frond drops for everyone. Has the draught been tested on a ranged character? I'm imagining it showing a message saying it can't be used by non-melee specializations (something else did this for non-ranged, I just can't remember what it was). Maybe it does work though, I have no idea.
    I guess that might apply to personal loot, but I'm not aware of any top raiding guilds using personal loot (loot council seems more common). There's nothing about the trinket's description that seems to indicate it is melee only, and it procs http://www.wowhead.com/spell=225141/fel-crazed-rage, not a melee specific spell, as far as I can tell.

    If it turns out that it is only possibly useful for melee, we can of course note that in the trinkets section and/or remove it from the trinkets listing entirely.

  9. #1249
    Quote Originally Posted by Effinhunter View Post
    I guess that might apply to personal loot, but I'm not aware of any top raiding guilds using personal loot (loot council seems more common). There's nothing about the trinket's description that seems to indicate it is melee only, and it procs http://www.wowhead.com/spell=225141/fel-crazed-rage, not a melee specific spell, as far as I can tell.

    If it turns out that it is only possibly useful for melee, we can of course note that in the trinkets section and/or remove it from the trinkets listing entirely.
    True, I forgot about that as I haven't raided mythic in a long time. But the loot spec does indicate it, which is something.

    But I have seen a message on a trinket that, when linked to other melee players, or when I swapped to SV, says something along the lines of "this can't be used by your current specialization" (when they are melee). So that would sort of make the potential of the proc working for a ranged character moot if they can't equip it or it just becomes disabled. But I was never on the PTR, and maybe the PTR didn't even give us the opportunity to test it. If it not being on our ranged-spec loot tables is the case I wouldn't expect Blizzard to let us use it. (obviously that is not a hard rule though, so we'll see)
    Main - Spirál - Hunter

  10. #1250
    Deleted
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=225141/fel-crazed-rage

    On the ptr at 885 ilvl it hit for about 1.5mil total for BM with 80 sec cd, i don't see why it's on top... and also you need melee range for it to hit something, getting out of melee range causes the proc to ... well not hit anything. So considering it has no agility and no mastery I don't see myself using it. The http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=140796/e...oci&bonus=3514 on the other hand seemed insane on the ptr with prox back to back and I even got all 3 buffs on me at the same time.

  11. #1251
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBetrayer View Post
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=225141/fel-crazed-rage

    On the ptr at 885 ilvl it hit for about 1.5mil total for BM with 80 sec cd, i don't see why it's on top... and also you need melee range for it to hit something, getting out of melee range causes the proc to ... well not hit anything. So considering it has no agility and no mastery I don't see myself using it. The http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=140796/e...oci&bonus=3514 on the other hand seemed insane on the ptr with prox back to back and I even got all 3 buffs on me at the same time.
    The lower ilevel one you have quoted is still high dps. 1.5m / 80 = 18,750 dps

    A base mythic one (http://www.wowhead.com/item=140808/d...uls&bonus=3519) is 209,370 * 4 * 3 = 2,512,440 damage / 80s cd = 31,405.5 dps

    That's a lot of dps unless they nerf it. It's on use, so you are completely prepared for the proc and can move into melee before you use it. If you look at the ilvls on the ones at the top, they are assuming good titanforges. The trinket gets even better as you titanforge it right now (assuming no nerfs).

  12. #1252
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Effinhunter View Post
    The lower ilevel one you have quoted is still high dps. 1.5m / 80 = 18,750 dps

    A base mythic one (http://www.wowhead.com/item=140808/d...uls&bonus=3519) is 209,370 * 4 * 3 = 2,512,440 damage / 80s cd = 31,405.5 dps

    That's a lot of dps unless they nerf it. It's on use, so you are completely prepared for the proc and can move into melee before you use it. If you look at the ilvls on the ones at the top, they are assuming good titanforges. The trinket gets even better as you titanforge it right now (assuming no nerfs).
    That is assuming you are not dealing with other mechanics at the 80s mark that will make you delay it and having no priority target at the time since the trinket hits whatever is near... also the 3s it does that damage in could be used to do 2/3 attacks... personally I don't see it better that a stat stick of similar or even lower ilvl for BM at least.

  13. #1253
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBetrayer View Post
    That is assuming you are not dealing with other mechanics at the 80s mark that will make you delay it and having no priority target at the time since the trinket hits whatever is near... also the 3s it does that damage in could be used to do 2/3 attacks... personally I don't see it better that a stat stick of similar or even lower ilvl for BM at least.
    Fortunately your feelings have no statistical meaning.
    Finbez
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological
    if only WoW had come out when I was a teenager. Back then online gaming consisted of text-based MUDs....I could type "kill orc" faster than any of my competition, brosephs, and played a mean giantman cleric.

  14. #1254
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBetrayer View Post
    That is assuming you are not dealing with other mechanics at the 80s mark that will make you delay it and having no priority target at the time since the trinket hits whatever is near... also the 3s it does that damage in could be used to do 2/3 attacks... personally I don't see it better that a stat stick of similar or even lower ilvl for BM at least.
    If you put KC/DB on cooldown and empty your focus bar I'm pretty sure you can use the trinket and lose only one autoattack. That said, I don't really like the idea of going into melee range.

  15. #1255
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBetrayer View Post
    That is assuming you are not dealing with other mechanics at the 80s mark that will make you delay it and having no priority target at the time since the trinket hits whatever is near... also the 3s it does that damage in could be used to do 2/3 attacks... personally I don't see it better that a stat stick of similar or even lower ilvl for BM at least.
    BM has a ton of idle time where you're just waiting for focus. I think it would work fine... if we're talking about the trickiness of fitting it into a rotation, I'm sure marks would be more of a challenge to fit it in, since marks should really have no idle time at all.

    But sims are sims... if the numbers are in right and the APL is good and all that, a dps increase is a dps increase. Arguing that you could have used 2/3 attacks in that time frame... the sims would have accounted for that.
    Main - Spirál - Hunter

  16. #1256
    The tricky part is going to be convincing your loot master to give this trinket to a ranged class.

    There are very good reasons to not want your ranged DPS to be moving into melee all the time.

  17. #1257
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    The tricky part is going to be convincing your loot master to give this trinket to a ranged class.

    There are very good reasons to not want your ranged DPS to be moving into melee all the time.
    True, though many of us reading here are probably going in under personal loot. In which case you can temporarily swap to SV loot specialization (though there may be other items SV has on it's loot table you would risk getting, who knows).

    There's no doubt it would be a situationally useful trinket (similar to a high ilvl spiked tongue), but if it is simming highest and there are opportunities... it could definitely be worth having at some point. If it is equippable and fully functional for ranged, it's worth keeping in mind.
    Main - Spirál - Hunter

  18. #1258
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBetrayer View Post
    That is assuming you are not dealing with other mechanics at the 80s mark that will make you delay it and having no priority target at the time since the trinket hits whatever is near... also the 3s it does that damage in could be used to do 2/3 attacks... personally I don't see it better that a stat stick of similar or even lower ilvl for BM at least.
    These are sims that incorporate physical damage and abilities in the priority list for MM, BM, and SV. It does assume perfect play, but the point of theorycrafting is to discuss the maximum potential of something. Also, if you always delay a usage of the trinket by 5 additional seconds because of mechanics or whatever, the math for that is very straightforward. Instead of an 80s CD, you simply divide by the new CD (e.g. 85s).

    2,512,440 damage / 85s = 29,558 dps (down from 31,405.5)

    This is not unique to a trinket like this. And if you're talking about MM, you're going to get more punishment from AiS cancels from mechanics (it has a short cd) than something that is executed every 80s (longer cd).

    - - - Updated - - -

    SV trinkets should be updated now.

    SV trinkets, single target: http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html

  19. #1259
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Effinhunter View Post
    The lower ilevel one you have quoted is still high dps. 1.5m / 80 = 18,750 dps

    A base mythic one (http://www.wowhead.com/item=140808/d...uls&bonus=3519) is 209,370 * 4 * 3 = 2,512,440 damage / 80s cd = 31,405.5 dps

    That's a lot of dps unless they nerf it. It's on use, so you are completely prepared for the proc and can move into melee before you use it. If you look at the ilvls on the ones at the top, they are assuming good titanforges. The trinket gets even better as you titanforge it right now (assuming no nerfs).
    Ingame the tooltip reads a much lower value than on wowhead, a 910 one reads as ~80k damage per hit unlike the 210k listed by wowhead there. Does that mean that the tooltip is broken ingame or is it the other way around?

    Additionally, it's not listed under any Hunter class filter, but I'm going to assume that is because Blizzard intends for this to be a melee trinket (since it's melee range, after all).

  20. #1260
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Makro View Post
    If you put KC/DB on cooldown and empty your focus bar I'm pretty sure you can use the trinket and lose only one autoattack. That said, I don't really like the idea of going into melee range.
    That 1.5mil is used in BW window ... there is no such thing as CD for KC there with killer cobra. Out of BW the trinket damage goes down to 1mil.

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