PVP vs PVE - Why PVE limits a player

[Stuntzu]

Lol has this guy played arenas? DK requires you to think on the move? DH? Ret Paladin? Warrior? Okay. BM Hunter?

Healer getting dunked in 3s or 2s? Literally nothing you can do while melee dps globals you down through infinite stuns.

Just because you use like 3 more macros than someone who PvEs doesn't mean that your WoW IQ is through the roof Mr. genius!

So how are the healers above 2400 surviving? they seem to be doing just fine think before you speak.

[Stuntzu]

Yeah I agree. A very good pvp player will shine in pve very fast. Just need to learn mechanics of the fight, you already have awareness. A pve player has huge chances to suck, especially because you have more spells to use, CC ones, plus focusing more targets that do random stuff. A boss will never fake cast, a player will

agree with both of you. well said

[shonist]

To begin I 100% believe in the following...

PvE = Watching YouTube videos of better guilds than yours doing boss fights and then trying to repeat those same feats. It's all predetermined.
Boss stands here and does this so you need to be here and do this. The Boss doesn't throw you curve balls it's the same thing night after night after night. Make a mistake ? Some of them won't cost you the fight some will. Died? Rez incoming you get a second chance at life.

PvP= Casual or Competitive - Constantly having to think on the move, do you dictate the play style onto your opponents, react to theirs or a combination of both? PvP awareness is fast paced fast twitch reactive decision making taking in sometimes 5-6 moves ahead of time based on the match progression like chess in many ways. You need to know all others classes mechanics cold and how they synergize with their teams makeup and how to counter theirs and best impose your teams will onto that.

Personally I have always felt that PvE severly limits many players WoW IQ. Make your feast drink your flask and try not to DIAF.

Thoughts?

my thoughts? i dont want to be infracted again,.

[jackofwind]

As some smart guy has said: some bots are better, than some real players.

This is a fairly good point actually. People love to espouse the difficulty of PvP because you're playing against players, but a scripted fight can actually be harder than that if the designer wants it to be:

Make a fight with the most insane movement and strictest DPS requirements possible with a margin of error of under 5 seconds for an instantly raid-wiping enrage timer.

Have mandatory interrupts occur every few seconds to force a raid-wide interrupt rotation.

Make incoming raid and tank damage push the realm of possibility, or have a mechanic set everyone's HP to 1 so that any damage taken kills them.

That's a raid fight that's harder than any PvP fight. Just because it hasn't been done yet doesn't mean it's not possible. Obviously it's a hugely stretched example but that's the point - PvP and PvE aren't comparable and the people who try to do it usually just talk out their asses and make sweeping claims. Give it up. They're different. Players aren't better or worse than each other just because of the content they like to play.

[Stuntzu]

He's right though. PvE depends on 24 other people not being retarded. Your job is to 'not be retarded' just like them.
PvP depends on your ability to out play other players (or play OP comps and mouth breath your way to titles)

One your job is to 'not fall on your face'
the other your job is 'to out perform your enemy'

Well said excellent point on pvp vs pve

[jackofwind]

Meh, OP is just cherry picking posts that agree with him to reply to with nothing but back-slapping and banal agreement.

This thread is done, there's no discussion to be had here.

[Stuntzu]

No you weren't because I was.

Or was I? The internet is a wonderful thing for anonymous claims.

Or you could just armory me and realize how wrong you are?

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Exactly. Comments like those show that the poster has no fucking clue. It's an immediate disqualifier. If you don't even know that Mythic raiding requires not just interupts, but coordinated interupts, then you have no knowledge on said subject and should jusst stfu.

I enjoy both aspects of the game. I raid 3 nights a week and i lead an RBG team the other 3 nights.

Bottom line is this: Good players can do both. End of discussion.

you're both amazingly incorrect. PVE interrupts are predetermined MUST DO's when boss does this you MUST do that period end of discussion...
in PVP there are times when interrupting your oppenents on certain types of spells during certain situations doesnt outweigh say the need to do other things more vital at that stage in the match for any number of circumstances.
Just because you have to kick a boss doesnt make PVE skill based. Again... you know when its coming. you've got a number of people who can do it and if one messes up one or two of the others probably took care of it by doing it as well. It dumbs players down If 25+ players cant kick one boss spell then i got a big HINT for ya....
you've made my point.

[jackofwind]

Or you could just armory me and realize how wrong you are?

Anyone can claim to be anyone on the internet.

Case in point - that armory is of my character. Prove me wrong.

[DakonBlackblade]

Not really. Again, Good players are good no matter what. The best players in the game can do both PvE and PvP. The playstyles are very different. One is static DPS while adjusting to your environment, the other is burst/control sequencing while adjusting to enemy strat and effectiveness.

The players have to be good players regardless.

There are players who are good in both, that doesn't mean someone who is good at just one is a bad player. They do require different skills as you described. A person can be awesome at one and suck beyond measure at the other, theres no such thing as an empirical good player when you are comparing two different styles of gameplay that require different reactions, strategies and mechanics. Some skills translate from one to the other but mostly they are different animals and your skill in one has almost no relation to your skill in the other, specialty when you consider the fact that training is a factor in what we call skill, so someone who PvPs on a daily basis and never does PvE will have no PvE practice and will therefore have less skill, so someone thats good on both also practices both.

[Fang7986]

if I wanted to PvP I'd go play a game that's designed around it and not one where it's tacked on often overlooked addition. And yes WoW PvP is tacked on. When the game is designed around raids where it takes 10 or more people to kill one mob, 1v1 fighting will never be anything but an afterthought.

[jackofwind]

/snip

Because 25 people are in the position to kick the boss or add, or both. Not you know, spread the fuck out in a big room to handle mechanics, or doing other things. And it never happens that a kick has to be missed in order to handle a different mechanic that pops up at the same time.
Because boss abilities always happen in the same exact order at the same exact time.
Because bosses never have abilities that shouldn't be kicked at all, or shouldn't be kicked in order to allow something else to be kicked.



Again, the amount of ignorance in this thread coming from both sides is stupid. It's apparent that half of these people don't even do both PvE and PvP at a high level, and therefore really ought not to be commenting at all since they don't have any relevant experience.

High level players are usually good at both PvE and PvP. Most of the people in this thread fall into the category of players who think they're better than they are, so they belittle others for doing either PvP or PvE. They're like the people who think they're hot shit because they cleared Heroic, but are salty that they don't get picked up for a Mythic progression guild - when the reality is that they're nowhere near good enough to do Mythic progression. Or a player who thinks he deserves Glad just because he broke 2k and is the best from among his group of friends.

Have I ever gotten Glad? Nope, but I've gotten Duelist many times and played against Glads. Have I ever gotten a World First Mythic end-boss kill? Nope, but I've gotten quite a few server first ones.

Do I think I'm close to the best there is at either PvP or PvE? Nope, and that should be telling. It's the people who think they're the hottest shit that are usually the most deluded.

[Dragoncurry]

So how are the healers above 2400 surviving? they seem to be doing just fine think before you speak.

Okay, WoD Turbo required so much skill. Walking dead too. Just like restodruid/hunter in 2s in WOD.

Lots of skills. Yawn.

I forgot that unless you're 2400 you have no skills. What about 2v2 PvP, is that unbalanced, or only 3v3 PvP counts as High IQ generating PvP? What about BGs, is that high IQ PvP too?

Lol.

[Daffan]

Give them a week and they'll out dps you while picking their nostrils.

Give a pve player a week to learn pvp and they most likely will quit and blame "balance issues"

Let's be honest about things.

I can see it happening.

[Notdev]

If PvE was only easy scripted encounters which only had the "don't be retarded" requirement, why don't the best players in the world clear "hard" bosses in 15-20 attempts?

Why don't guilds kill bosses immediately after a video gets released?

A guild full of high end pvpers that also pve's exists... hey im mvp, they raid around 15 hours a week and didn't kill mythic helya.

Trying to fully optimize your rotation while handing 5-8 mechanics and coordinating with 19 other players simultaneously isn't as "limiting", or easy, or scripted as you claim.

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I remember back in WoTLK we had a s4 rank 1 hunter who pvped with some of our raiders join the raid team (was in a top 25 US guild) because how bad could he be? He then proceeded to fail at the majority of mechanics while simultaneously doing bad dps and was promptly removed from the raid team.

If PvE = easy scripted encounters, PvP = rolling fotm classes and facerolling your way to 2400.

[Katchii]

Whlie I agree with the difference, it's just not that simple. I can't stand PvP because I'm just not that type of player. I hate PvP, usually. I like accomplishing a goal or working towards an objective, and actually playing. In PvP of any kind, most matches boil down to who pulled the trigger first, who has the most accurate twitchiest fingers and the match ups only last 5-10 seconds when you do encounter someone at which point you need to find cover to heal or you need to run back into the action from the respawn point because you died. Repeat.

Constantly dying and running back into the action is just not fun to me. I'm sure it would be different if I had teammates and a somewhat organized group, but as a solo experience, PvP sucks for me.

[Etselion]

Pretty standard bait thread

[Notdev]

The majority of hard pve fights require VERY crisp execution of complex strategies while maintaining your throughput (damage/healing) and expecting various mechanics will be casted on you even if they might not be.. Its not anywhere close to "watch some videos and don't stand in the fire".

[Deleted]

A hardcore PvPer will never outshine a hardcore PvEer in PvE content. Just as a PvEer wont outshine a PvPer in PvP.

They are two different aspect of the game, that require two different kind of mindsets.

[Smauldy]

This is a PvE game at heart. It always has been and always will be. PvP is a "tacked on" sideshow that will never be truly well balanced. You want PvP? Go play a game that was built for it and balanced around it from the ground up. WoW PvP is a joke.

[clevin]

honestly, who gives a fuck? Most of you are either stroking yourself or arguing about definitions. If you like to PVE, PVE. If you're all about PVP, do that. IF you like a mix, do that.

Fighting over how people should play or who's better is idiotic and childish.