Hunters Are So Bad, Preach's Guild Had to Bench Their Hunters

[ydraw]

This is something a lot of people don't understand about WoW.

Just because (spec) isn't being brought to world-first bleeding-edge progression, does not mean that the spec is bad or unviable.

Yeah, it kinda does.

Just because you can still play the spec and still kill the boss doesn't mean the spec isn't bad. The spec is bad.

When I'm parsing 96% and the Shadow Priest parsing at 55% is doing 100k more DPS than I am, the spec is bad.

If I was playing a different class we would be more likely to kill the boss. That is true no matter where your guild ranks.

Every DPS check is a challenge for every guild until they get it, and playing a class that has poor DPS makes DPS checks harder whether you are top 100 or top 10,000.

Of course it is true to say that if other people were pulling their weight then we'd be more likely to kill the boss, but that's no more true than saying if the spec was pulling its weight we would also be more likely to kill the boss.

So please stop patronisingly trying to tell people it doesn't matter. It does matter.

[Bepples]

This is something a lot of people don't understand about WoW.

Just because (spec) isn't being brought to world-first bleeding-edge progression, does not mean that the spec is bad or unviable.

Unless you're pushing for server-first mythic kills, it really doesn't matter what classes/specs you bring.

In 6.2, SV was something like 80% of MM's damage in the very best circumstances. It was much lower than that in every non-patchwerk examples besides sustained AoE against a large mob, which didn't exist on any HFC boss fight.

Picking SV over MM in that patch was literally the difference between killing a priority add in time or not. By extension, you would MOST DEFINITELY AND LITERALLY wipe more and have a harder time in general if you picked SV over MM.

Yes, there reaches a point where it absolutely does matter.

[anon5123]

Every DPS check is a challenge for every guild until they get it, and playing a class that has poor DPS makes DPS checks harder whether you are top 100 or top 10,000.

The thing you're forgetting is that "DPS checks" are so much more forgiving in non-Mythic content.

You do not need to min-max to extremes to clear normal/heroic, and you do not need to min-max to extremes to clear Mythic unless you're pushing for server firsts.

Thus, crying that a spec is "bad" because it's not the best, is retarded.

[ydraw]

The thing you're forgetting is that "DPS checks" are so much more forgiving in non-Mythic content.

You do not need to min-max to extremes to clear normal/heroic, and you do not need to min-max to extremes to clear Mythic unless you're pushing for server firsts.

Thus, crying that a spec is "bad" because it's not the best, is retarded.

"min-maxing to extremes" as you put it, might be a 5% difference at the end of the day.

The difference between hunters and the top classes at the moment is close to 30%. That's the equivalent of never pushing kill command as BM. If you don't think 30% can make a difference then it's you who's retarded.

[Kirbypro]

I really hate agreeing with Preach since you can generally assume he has no clue what he is talking about, but it's true that Survival was a failed experiment. Not only has it unequivocally failed now, it was a bad idea to start with and should NEVER have been pursued.

And we can generally assume that you have no idea what you're talking about. Your asinine attempt to bash a youtuber is really sad.

[Penguintamer]

I really hate agreeing with Preach since you can generally assume he has no clue what he is talking about, but it's true that Survival was a failed experiment. Not only has it unequivocally failed now, it was a bad idea to start with and should NEVER have been pursued.

I agree that Survival failed in its current iteration, but I wouldn't have had a problem with melee Survival being pursued by the Devs if they actually made it a decent melee spec. The rotation is garbage and bloated with low cooldown shit to use on one/two targets like Explosive Trap and Caltrop. None of the cooldowns line up with each other. Fury of the Eagle as a whole is retarded. Way of the Mok'nathal only makes it more unenjoyable with its maintenance. There seems like there's barely any time to actually use Flanking Strike. The spec is garbage because of all of that, but I'd be fine with them keeping it a melee spec so long as they give it a complete and utter facelift in its mechanics. Mongoose Bite, Raptor Strike, Flanking Strike and traps are cool. Just make them interact with each other better, and make a fun melee rotation like nearly every other melee in the game right now.

[Deleted]

No wonder all wow content creators on twitch and youtube are quitting.
People are giving this guy so much hate just for saying his opinion, Jeez.

[Chickensoup23]

The thing you're forgetting is that "DPS checks" are so much more forgiving in non-Mythic content.

You do not need to min-max to extremes to clear normal/heroic, and you do not need to min-max to extremes to clear Mythic unless you're pushing for server firsts.

Thus, crying that a spec is "bad" because it's not the best, is retarded.

My guild is top 3000 and were 7/7M. I'm not in a top 100 guild but I'm still deep in mythic and my DPS sure fucking matters

[Nupss]

It's probably not even worth replying to this thread, but I'd like to clarify a couple of things as an officer of aforementioned no name, sub-par performing guild.

Our hunters have not been booted for Nighthold, they've performed just fine in the past and will in the future. We had an hours worth of Helya pulls on patch day, and they chose to try a new build that didn't work out. The next day they were going to try the old Sidewinders build, which would probably have worked out just fine but we didn't know at that point. We tried some other people, we made it through p1 and p2 easier than before the patch and simply chose to stick with it for that night. We killed it without the hunters and are proud of the kill as a pretty laid back raiding guild.

Preach is not an officer and doesn't know everything. All he knows is that we replaced hunters that were underperforming the day before, and got the kill with a different setup. That's about it. He doesn't deserve the flack he is getting in this thread, nor do our hunters.
They tried something on patch day, they would have gotten it right the day after, but we made a different decision that eventually lead to a kill. We felt sorry for replacing them, they were gracious in letting us try a different setup and now we're all happy to continue as a team in Nighthold with a satisfying Helya kill under our belts.

[cvsmith122]

Personally i saw about a 80k dps loss, with the patch today i am back to about where i was.

[cLax0n]

Yeah, it kinda does.

Just because you can still play the spec and still kill the boss doesn't mean the spec isn't bad. The spec is bad.

When I'm parsing 96% and the Shadow Priest parsing at 55% is doing 100k more DPS than I am, the spec is bad.

If I was playing a different class we would be more likely to kill the boss. That is true no matter where your guild ranks.

Every DPS check is a challenge for every guild until they get it, and playing a class that has poor DPS makes DPS checks harder whether you are top 100 or top 10,000.

Of course it is true to say that if other people were pulling their weight then we'd be more likely to kill the boss, but that's no more true than saying if the spec was pulling its weight we would also be more likely to kill the boss.

So please stop patronisingly trying to tell people it doesn't matter. It does matter.

Couldn't have said this better myself.

[satimy]

If you're not a top 3 guild, class and spec are meaningless

[Youn]

That's not true. If you cannot down a boss with a class because it doesn't put out enough damage and you have enough of another class you replace them. No matter your progression. That is how benching works.

[Angrox]

That's not true. If you cannot down a boss with a class because it doesn't put out enough damage and you have enough of another class you replace them. No matter your progression. That is how benching works.

There's no excuse for not being able to down a boss with hunter. You bench the player not the class.

[mistahwilshire]

I really hate agreeing with Preach since you can generally assume he has no clue what he is talking about, but it's true that Survival was a failed experiment. Not only has it unequivocally failed now, it was a bad idea to start with and should NEVER have been pursued.

You're a fucking idiot if you really think he doesn't know what he's talking about. The problem is that he has a great sense of humor and fucking retards like you can't differentiate when he's being serious or not.

They benched two Hunters because they wanted to kill Mythic Helya before the patch and they had a geared Ele and WW waiting to go. You'd be a fucking idiot to take two Hunters that bring absolutely nothing besides lower damage when you're racing the clock for something like that. This thread is full of so many stupid and bad players. Fuck this retarded cesspool site.

- - - Updated - - -

If you're not a top 3 guild, class and spec are meaningless

They're fourth on one of the best EU servers and were racing time for the kill. Class and spec mean a fucking lot in that case. Go spew your autistic and inaccurate bullshit you saw some other retard spew elsewhere.

Infracted.

[satimy]

You're a fucking idiot if you really think he doesn't know what he's talking about. The problem is that he has a great sense of humor and fucking retards like you can't differentiate when he's being serious or not.

They benched two Hunters because they wanted to kill Mythic Helya before the patch and they had a geared Ele and WW waiting to go. You'd be a fucking idiot to take two Hunters that bring absolutely nothing besides lower damage when you're racing the clock for something like that. This thread is full of so many stupid and bad players. Fuck this retarded cesspool site.

- - - Updated - - -



They're fourth on one of the best EU servers and were racing time for the kill. Class and spec mean a fucking lot in that case. Go spew your autistic and inaccurate bullshit you saw some other retard spew elsewhere.

How about you git gud first, go rage on the official forums. Server 4th means fuck all, they arent even top 100 world. You don't even need to flask at that level.

[Dracodraco]

You're a fucking idiot if you really think he doesn't know what he's talking about. The problem is that he has a great sense of humor and fucking retards like you can't differentiate when he's being serious or not.

They benched two Hunters because they wanted to kill Mythic Helya before the patch and they had a geared Ele and WW waiting to go. You'd be a fucking idiot to take two Hunters that bring absolutely nothing besides lower damage when you're racing the clock for something like that. This thread is full of so many stupid and bad players. Fuck this retarded cesspool site.

- - - Updated - - -



They're fourth on one of the best EU servers and were racing time for the kill. Class and spec mean a fucking lot in that case. Go spew your autistic and inaccurate bullshit you saw some other retard spew elsewhere.

There's no need to be hostile man. People are entitled to their opinions; In this case it's a fact that hunters aren't being benched on Helya because the class is bad; It's because the players were being dumb and playing the wrong talents for the fight. You see the affliction warlock doing 45M less damage than everyone else on the kill, without ever dying, and your first assumption isn't "OMG AFFLI WARLOCKS SUCK WHY HE NOT SAT?", it's "wow that dude can't play".

There was multiple people that should have been sat over the hunters, assuming the hunters are competent players - the warlock and preach being the main two, because they do the least damage. Saying it's because of the class is asinine, because if you throw any of the top 20 MM hunters up against their team, the hunter will be the highest damage on Helya - beating out their top performer, an assasination rogue, showing that in this case, it's not an issue of class balance; It's an issue of player skill.

Say what you want, but arguing a sub-300 kill post-nerf-post-buffing everyone to fuck with 7.1.5 is actually constrained by class balance is just silly and not true. They had better players that weren't hunters - they used the better players. It's as simple as that, and it's 100% the right decision. But to say this is because of class balance is making excuses for the two hunters that just straight up performed horribly.

[Aggrophobic]

If those Hunters are playing anything like in that video, of course they will get benched... the players fault, not the Hunter rofl

EDIT:

Hunters don't bring anything usefull? How about bres, Bloodlust, slows, traps, interrupt that doesn't have a 24 sec CD (as SV), great soaking with Aspect of the Turtle and there is probably a lot more that I'm forgetting.

Thoes players might not be the best but hunters in any spec are trash tier.
Unless you have nothing else to bring you really shoud bench them.

Damage is too low, utility is pointless. There are other classes that does all that way better.

[Deleted]

Thoes players might not be the best but hunters in any spec are trash tier.
Unless you have nothing else to bring you really shoud bench them.

Damage is too low, utility is pointless. There are other classes that does all that way better.

Like most of the people here are in that top part of raiding, it doesn't matter that much for the rest, they do fine in "normal" circumstances.
And if Blizzard sees many (if not most) Hunters getting benched, they will change it "soon™".

Also, the people that post an overall dps list from world of logs... like that says anything, everyone plays differently and overall never matters. it's just a dps race, like always.

[Aggrophobic]

Like most of the people here are in that top part of raiding, it doesn't matter that much for the rest, they do fine in "normal" circumstances.
And if Blizzard sees many (if not most) Hunters getting benched, they will change it "soon™".

Also, the people that post an overall dps list from world of logs... like that says anything, everyone plays differently and overall never matters. it's just a dps race, like always.

They might get buffed but then again, BM and survival was at the absolute bottom during EN and Blizzard did nothing.
Shadow was so far ahead it was silly yet Blizzard did nothing.

I really doubt Blizzard cares much about balance anymore.