[Megathread] Mass Effect Andromeda

[May90]

Was it though? Allow your enemy to mass their remaining fleets in one place for a showdown? The Reapers were winning until the Crucible was connected to the citadel and likely even choose to allow it to connect instead of blowing it out the sky in some fashion. None of that goes against them being great at strategy. Could Bioware have had it so Reapers showed up at the staging area and the Citadel fleets jumped away at the last second? Sure. Still doesn't make it a tactical error. Even with that said they could have made mistakes. It isn't the first time the Reapers have under estimated Humans (and other races). Being a tactical genius doesn't mean you are flawless and can't make mistakes. The Reapers might have started off as the omnipotent bogey man that can do anything. But Bioware turned them into just another force that can fall. Of course they had to do that for any sort of victory ending to make sense but it isn't a flaw in the story.

Well, it is just a basic military strategy: cut off enemy supply lines, and they won't be able to put up much of a fight. Instead, even without the Crucible, Reapers allowed the fleets to assemble together and hit them hard, and they suffered much bigger losses than they could.

The Reapers have been, well, reaping civilizations, possibly, for billions years. I'm pretty sure they've perfected their craft and wouldn't miss such an obvious opportunity for no reason.

Wat

In Mass Effect 1 solider was immortal. With high damage protection armor (Colossus) and skill cooldown mods, you could have permanent master immunity which made you basically take no damage from anything forever.

Immunity is something that should have been removed or reworked, IMO. It made playing Soldier, Vanguard and Infiltrator a joke, as level 3 immunity essentially made you immortal for a significant amount of time.

[Nazrark]

Well, it is just a basic military strategy: cut off enemy supply lines, and they won't be able to put up much of a fight. Instead, even without the Crucible, Reapers allowed the fleets to assemble together and hit them hard, and they suffered much bigger losses than they could.

The Reapers have been, well, reaping civilizations, possibly, for billions years. I'm pretty sure they've perfected their craft and wouldn't miss such an obvious opportunity for no reason..

I believe the standard tactic was to use superior technology to brute force your way through the cycles. I mean look how many ships it required to take down Sovereign while he was distracted. I believe before the first massive initial engagement. They allow their opponents to gather strength and then take down the majority of them in one swoop. It beats having to track down individual ships and fleets.

The Reapers don't suffer many casualties with this tactic because they tend to have a massive technology advantage. But since they failed in their first attempt to invade. It gave the Council races a three year head start to prepare for their arrival. Which included reverse engineering a lot of Sovereign. The massive loss of ships in this cycle would have to make them rethink the next cycle.

- - - Updated - - -

This cycle was the beginning of the end for the Reapers. Massive casualties due to Thanix Cannons and the next cycle will have a massive head start on the Reapers and will most likely take the fight to them in dark space.

[I Push Buttons]

I believe the standard tactic was to use superior technology to brute force your way through the cycles. I mean look how many ships it required to take down Sovereign while he was distracted. I believe before the first massive initial engagement. They allow their opponents to gather strength and then take down the majority of them in one swoop. It beats having to track down individual ships and fleets.

The Reapers don't suffer many casualties with this tactic because they tend to have a massive technology advantage. But since they failed in their first attempt to invade. It gave the Council races a three year head start to prepare for their arrival. Which included reverse engineering a lot of Sovereign. The massive loss of ships in this cycle would have to make them rethink the next cycle.

- - - Updated - - -

This cycle was the beginning of the end for the Reapers. Massive casualties due to Thanix Cannons and the next cycle will have a massive head start on the Reapers and will most likely take the fight to them in dark space.

The Vigil VI said it took hundreds of years for the Reapers to eradicate the Protheans. They track down every individual ship, every colony, etc., regardless, they wipe the race(s) from existence and remove all trace.

[Nazrark]

The Vigil VI said it took hundreds of years for the Reapers to eradicate the Protheans. They track down every individual ship, every colony, etc., regardless, they wipe the race(s) from existence and remove all trace.

That being said. It easier to get rid of a large number of them right away. Then you are left with hundreds of years of clean scrubbing a galaxy.

[May90]

I believe the standard tactic was to use superior technology to brute force your way through the cycles. I mean look how many ships it required to take down Sovereign while he was distracted. I believe before the first massive initial engagement. They allow their opponents to gather strength and then take down the majority of them in one swoop. It beats having to track down individual ships and fleets.

The Reapers don't suffer many casualties with this tactic because they tend to have a massive technology advantage. But since they failed in their first attempt to invade. It gave the Council races a three year head start to prepare for their arrival. Which included reverse engineering a lot of Sovereign. The massive loss of ships in this cycle would have to make them rethink the next cycle.

- - - Updated - - -

This cycle was the beginning of the end for the Reapers. Massive casualties due to Thanix Cannons and the next cycle will have a massive head start on the Reapers and will most likely take the fight to them in dark space.

I think in this case they could just make a more thorough cleaning, annihilating even the most primitive species having any chance to experience rapid evolution. Instead of staying in the galaxy for a few centuries, they could stay for 10,000 years and gradually eradicate every more-or-less evolved species and clear all traces of the previous civilizations ever existing. Plus, given their mistake in the previous cycle, they could upgrade the Citadel security system, stop relying on other species and build multiple ways for Sovereign (or whatever reaper replaces it) to activate the relay from a distance.

In other words, if the Reapers had won this war, the following civilizations would have a much slimmer chance at resisting the reaping than the Protheans and council races ever had.

[rhorle]

In other words, if the Reapers had won this war, the following civilizations would have a much slimmer chance at resisting the reaping than the Protheans and council races ever had.

Not necessarily. They would need to basically restart every solar system in order to do that. We aren't told about other cycles but the problem with the Shepard cycle is that the protheans changed things with out the knowledge of the Reapers. And that the galaxy had years to prepare even if most didn't believe in the reapers. That means there was enough of a chance to hide away knowledge. Look at Liara and how one, albeit well connected, being seeded so much information around the galaxy. As the protheans showed all it really takes is that one little change to give the next cycle a fighting chance.

They can't upgrade the Citadel to much, or have to many "remote activations" in the system though. Because it needs to remain hidden. Civilization is funneled to the Citadel each cycle because of the control it allows the Reapers over evolution and at the end of the cycle. The more they add the more they risk someone asking questions of why certain things exist or being able to trace it. Or reverse engineering technology that could be used against them. Like how the Protheans created the mini-rely and modified the keepers that went undetected.

[nekobaka]

https://twitter.com/tibermoon/status/821166739442561024

PRO TIP: In MEA, you can craft your own krogan-style hammer and name it GRABTHAR'S HAMMER.

https://twitter.com/tibermoon/status/821184245536276480

Q: How similar crafting in MEA is to one in DAI?
A: Quite a bit different. More on crafting later.

There is also an Official Omni-Blade replica available for pre-order.
http://www.biowarestore.com/collecti...n?sf51982587=1

[May90]

Not necessarily. They would need to basically restart every solar system in order to do that. We aren't told about other cycles but the problem with the Shepard cycle is that the protheans changed things with out the knowledge of the Reapers. And that the galaxy had years to prepare even if most didn't believe in the reapers. That means there was enough of a chance to hide away knowledge. Look at Liara and how one, albeit well connected, being seeded so much information around the galaxy. As the protheans showed all it really takes is that one little change to give the next cycle a fighting chance.

They can't upgrade the Citadel to much, or have to many "remote activations" in the system though. Because it needs to remain hidden. Civilization is funneled to the Citadel each cycle because of the control it allows the Reapers over evolution and at the end of the cycle. The more they add the more they risk someone asking questions of why certain things exist or being able to trace it. Or reverse engineering technology that could be used against them. Like how the Protheans created the mini-rely and modified the keepers that went undetected.

Yes, but the reason Protheans were able to do that was that the Citadel was abandoned too quickly. Had the Reapers left just one guardian near by the Citadel, observing, and the Prothean science team would be quickly discovered and apprehended.

Reapers were much more careless than they should have been. They should have anticipated that a very advanced civilization would eventually find/build a hidden backdoor to the Citadel, and set up permanent, or, at least, lasting defenses against that.

[Edge-]

I'm guessing they are going with melee combat style in this game? Oh boy o_o

Edited: well it kind of already existed on ME3 MP anyway...

Yeah, I'm curious to see how they make it work in the universe. Because while there has sorta been melee combat before, it was never really (to my memory) anything that was focused on as a "primary" method of combat in the design or story of the game.

And now it sounds like melee combat is going to be a totally viable and supported, both by design and story, part of the game. Very curious to see how they're going to explain it without resorting to, "Magic shields!" suddenly appearing, or something.

[May90]

Yeah, I'm curious to see how they make it work in the universe. Because while there has sorta been melee combat before, it was never really (to my memory) anything that was focused on as a "primary" method of combat in the design or story of the game.

And now it sounds like melee combat is going to be a totally viable and supported, both by design and story, part of the game. Very curious to see how they're going to explain it without resorting to, "Magic shields!" suddenly appearing, or something.

I would assume something like Kai Leng's sword. And you might be surprised at how well it works. Before buying KotoR back in 2004, I was very skeptical about melee weapons in Star Wars universe (vibroblades), but they fit the world surprisingly well. Same with Fallout games. I wouldn't be worried about it.

[nekobaka]

ME3 multiplayer showed it fairly well. I find it hard to believe having something on par with the Krogan hammer gameplay wise for a human. There would have to be changes to how single player works as it focuses on range use for elites and bosses especially due to instagib abilities from the former. Having a weapon that could oneshot mooks would be nice though. Pain in the butt not being able to one shot husks on insanity unless speced into mele boosts.

[Edge-]

I would assume something like Kai Leng's sword. And you might be surprised at how well it works. Before buying KotoR back in 2004, I was very skeptical about melee weapons in Star Wars universe (vibroblades), but they fit the world surprisingly well. Same with Fallout games. I wouldn't be worried about it.

Yeah, but that was kinda a one-off thing. Not many in the ME universe seem to have melee weapons for general combat given the multitude of ranged options that exist and are far better.

Star Wars already established melee weapons existence as being significant, even if it's primarily for Jedi/Sith. Yeah, any sci fi universe, it makes sense that there would be some limited use of close quarters combat in situations. But it's never a mainstay, nothing that would make sense for them to dedicated a whole crafting system partially around. So they'd need to establish their relevance as primary weapons in a universe where guns exist.

It's one thing I liked about Dune, even as silly as the whole explanation with the Holtzman Shields was. It pretty much immediately established that close quarters fighting was the primary mode of combat due to the shield negating almost all forms of ranged attack (either nullifying them or because the two interacting would literally cause a nuclear explosion). Very few sci-fi universes that involve functional ranged weapons give any kind of meaningful justification for melee weapons still existing as primary forms of combat, especially in games. At least not beyond, "This hammer totally does more damage per second than that laser gun with a rocket launcher on it. IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE AND DO NOT QUESTION IT."

[I Push Buttons]

Yeah, but that was kinda a one-off thing. Not many in the ME universe seem to have melee weapons for general combat given the multitude of ranged options that exist and are far better.

Star Wars already established melee weapons existence as being significant, even if it's primarily for Jedi/Sith. Yeah, any sci fi universe, it makes sense that there would be some limited use of close quarters combat in situations. But it's never a mainstay, nothing that would make sense for them to dedicated a whole crafting system partially around. So they'd need to establish their relevance as primary weapons in a universe where guns exist.

It's one thing I liked about Dune, even as silly as the whole explanation with the Holtzman Shields was. It pretty much immediately established that close quarters fighting was the primary mode of combat due to the shield negating almost all forms of ranged attack (either nullifying them or because the two interacting would literally cause a nuclear explosion). Very few sci-fi universes that involve functional ranged weapons give any kind of meaningful justification for melee weapons still existing as primary forms of combat, especially in games. At least not beyond, "This hammer totally does more damage per second than that laser gun with a rocket launcher on it. IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE AND DO NOT QUESTION IT."

Just takes a couple of codex entries to handwave things like that away.

Like ME3 codex introducing omni blades which weren't in the other two:
"Although melee-combat applications for the omni-tool are almost as old as the device itself, the feature was largely unused prior to the Reaper invasion. The need to take on multiple husks in close quarters forced the Alliance to develop ways to enhance the tool's offensive capability."

Just a quick little "Blah blah blah L5 biotics being able to more easily close gaps blah blah reintroduced the lost art of melee combat to devastating effect!" and voila, melee combat in Mass Effect.

- - - Updated - - -

ME3 multiplayer showed it fairly well. I find it hard to believe having something on par with the Krogan hammer gameplay wise for a human. There would have to be changes to how single player works as it focuses on range use for elites and bosses especially due to instagib abilities from the former. Having a weapon that could oneshot mooks would be nice though. Pain in the butt not being able to one shot husks on insanity unless speced into mele boosts.

Codex Entry: "Blah blah mass effect field around the weapon, allowing it to feel almost weightless for those who wield it!"

[Edge-]

Just takes a couple of codex entries to handwave things like that away.

Like ME3 codex introducing omni blades which weren't in the other two:
"Although melee-combat applications for the omni-tool are almost as old as the device itself, the feature was largely unused prior to the Reaper invasion. The need to take on multiple husks in close quarters forced the Alliance to develop ways to enhance the tool's offensive capability."

Just a quick little "Blah blah blah L5 biotics being able to more easily close gaps blah blah reintroduced the lost art of melee combat to devastating effect!" and voila, melee combat in Mass Effect.

Oh, I know. I'm just curious as to what the "blah blah blah" bit is going to be. How universes handle (or avoid) these types of topics is fascinating to me.

[rhorle]

Yes, but the reason Protheans were able to do that was that the Citadel was abandoned too quickly. Had the Reapers left just one guardian near by the Citadel, observing, and the Prothean science team would be quickly discovered and apprehended.

It wasn't abandoned to quickly. The reapers left and the small surviving team on Illos was never found. The Reapers thought they wiped out all traces of the Protheans but since they are not omnipotent they missed Illos. Even if they left a guardian as you say then what was stopping the next cycle from finding that guardian? From seeing their lasting defense in the citadel? Remember the Reapers not only wanted no trace of the last cycle but no trace of themselves. You can't leave some defense system on the citadel and not raise suspicions of people that discover it and study it. If they did leave such a defense system why couldn't any citadel races reverse engineer it to use it against the Reapers?

Anything left might not have been able to stop the Prothean scientists anyways. The Reapers already thought they had their foolproof plan. Keepers and a lone reaper. Both failed.

[Lahis]

And the Reapers actually did leave a guardian within the galaxy.

Anyone remember Sovereing?

[Karrotlord]

I'm really curious about this hammer. Will it be a primary weapon that replaces your gun? Will it just be used for skills? Will it unlock new skills like Biotic Hammer if that's the case? If it doesn't, how strong will it actually be? Will there be swords too? Will I be able to Electric Slash things?

Ugh, so many questions.

[Elim Garak]

And the Reapers actually did leave a guardian within the galaxy.

Anyone remember Sovereing?

It was not a guardian. More like a monitor. It was there to monitor the development of the new cycle periodically (most of the time it was sleeping to conserve energy) and once the cycle was ripe for the plucking it sent a signal to keepers on the Citadel to reactivate the Citadel Relay so that Reapers could come in and begin the harvest.

In pre-ME cycle keepers were tempered with by Prothean survivors from Ilos. Thus prompting sovereign to act in a different manner during ME cycle.

Not to mention that there were a lot (relatively speaking) of dead Reapers floating in space.

Leviathans were still around.

Prothean ruins everywhere.

Working Prothean tech still intact.

In other words Reapers did a sloppy job due to arrogance coming from repetition of perceived successes.

Also the existence of the Crucible design and its peculiarity in involving a multicycle roadmap to completion kinda screams "We know what you are, Reapers".

[Matt0193]

Also the existence of the Crucible design and its peculiarity in involving a multicycle roadmap to completion kinda screams "We know what you are, Reapers".

While it's borderline fanfic territory at this point, I could see the Crucible being created by Starbrat/Harbinger as the final test for Organics; If they can create, use and control the device then they should be wise enough to survive without the Reapers needing to step in and hard reset the technology level in the Milky Way. More likely that it would've been the Starbrat intelligence, or Harbinger started off neutral and impartial to the sheer level of destruction it was putting the galaxy and organics through and eventually it's intelligence evolved to a state where it no longer believed Organics could survive.

Of course, the alternative is it's a convenient solution to the Reaper problem that somehow happens to be discovered just in time.

[I Push Buttons]

I'm really curious about this hammer. Will it be a primary weapon that replaces your gun? Will it just be used for skills? Will it unlock new skills like Biotic Hammer if that's the case? If it doesn't, how strong will it actually be? Will there be swords too? Will I be able to Electric Slash things?

Ugh, so many questions.

https://twitter.com/tibermoon/status...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

"There's a dedicated melee weapon slot. The omni-blade you start with is just one (though you can upgrade it)."

Whether that means there will be actual melee focused builds or it just a backup weapon remains to be seen.