1. #1121
    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    I was a Holy Paladin in Vanilla. Raiding certainly was pretty stat with FoL spam and decursing like a mofo. 5 mans however I healed, I could do some DPS, and I tanked as that same spec. I got to use abilities that were never used in raiding, especially the holy damage abilities and such. I saw Rogues bleed and kite, certainly something like Balance Druids got to use different abilities in 5 mans as well ( yay insect swarm).

    Even in raiding though things did change up a bit when you had a boss that had a phase that worked well for using certain judgements.
    So spinning BS, gotcha.
    5 mans as a paladin was basically just spamming FoL and decursing too, sorry. Exorcism? Turn Undead? Both highly situational such as polymorph. Hell, you couldn't use turn undead because it was a fear, and fears brought friends.
    Bleeds didn't scale with AP back then, unlikely as shit. Rupture kiting was 100% world of roguecraftesque pvp fare.
    Balance druids. Lol. Insect swarm was part of their actual "rotation" and it was actually useful in raids since it provided miss chance iirc, also lol balance druids in any content ever.

  2. #1122
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrs ankle View Post
    So spinning BS, gotcha.
    5 mans as a paladin was basically just spamming FoL and decursing too, sorry. Exorcism? Turn Undead? Both highly situational such as polymorph. Hell, you couldn't use turn undead because it was a fear, and fears brought friends.
    Bleeds didn't scale with AP back then, unlikely as shit. Rupture kiting was 100% world of roguecraftesque pvp fare.
    Balance druids. Lol. Insect swarm was part of their actual "rotation" and it was actually useful in raids since it provided miss chance iirc, also lol balance druids in any content ever.
    * Shrug * we had them.

    Exorcism and the holy AoE ability ( it's slipping my mind) stayed on constant CD when running Baron, early part of SM2, and Scholomance. If all you did as Holy was FoL spam and decurse in a 5 man, well I'm glad you weren't a holy paladin in any of my runs.

  3. #1123
    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    * Shrug * we had them.

    Exorcism and the holy AoE ability ( it's slipping my mind) stayed on constant CD when running Baron, early part of SM2, and Scholomance. If all you did as Holy was FoL spam and decurse in a 5 man, well I'm glad you weren't a holy paladin in any of my runs.
    see what the word situational means.
    read it
    understand it

    and lol sorry i had t2 on my paladin, i wouldn't run 45 man baron if you paid me.

  4. #1124
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Yea I meant Winterspring.

    Maybe it's just me but I like to play a video game and experience an adventure. I want to see fire, ice, and craziness. It seems to me the developers have run out of ideas and stuck with themes. Like MoP stuck with an Asian theme, and didn't explore beyond that. Maybe it's due to limited time or budget, but the maps have gotten smaller. I doubt someone thinks a smaller map is better, especially for an MMO. But anyway, this is just one complaint I've had about modern WoW. There are more.


    You took one argument and made it another. I'm showing you how much smaller expansions have gotten and you're telling me that you can't level on just Kalimdor and therefore my argument is invalid. Don't do drugs.


    The problem you have is that you think my opinion is wrong. You said turnoff, but you're implying a negative. You're also implying that what you say is fact. It's all an opinion and you obviously don't have to agree with it.

    You can't remove emotion, cause it's inhuman to do so. Might as well ask an AI to decide what is correct. Especially for a video game where we procrastinate.

    You're never going to reach an understanding, cause everyone has their own opinion on the subject. What I'm trying to make you understand is this is the result of Blizzard changing their game design for WoW to aim at a different market. I know when this change started and it was with WOTLK Naxx. When people were complaining that the dungeon was too easy. As a result Blizzard gave Ulduar a hard mode, to appeal to the hardcore market but left an easy mode to bring in more players by making it accessible. This started a rift that expanded over time, but Blizzard was clearly in favor of the more casual market. Cata introduced a totally remade Vanilla leveling experience to make it easy for casuals to level. Cata also introduced LFR which still receives criticism to this day.

    MoP removed talent trees for the new talent system, and I believe this was done to fix players who would spec poorly. There was a noticeable contrast between a player who knew how to spec and use that spec, vs those who just copied from Google and failed to properly play that spec. So the talent system was simplified, and actually copied from Diablo 3. This again made it easier for casuals.

    Remember Blizzard doesn't do these things for the lols, but because it makes them money. A lot of this is probably due to the massive success of the Wii, which drove a lot of companies to aim for the casual audience. Which is probably why the Wii U failed as it continued this casual catering, not realizing that casuals don't stick around. You can see this now with WoW population as it dramatically drops after a month the expansion is released, where this wasn't a thing before. Content patches were a way to sustain that population, but they've been nothing but a waste of resources. Which is why WoD was going to be such a small expansion, and Blizzard was going to continue this if WoD was a success. Luckily it wasn't.

    So now Blizzard aims towards a new audience called Whales. Learning from mobile success, this is where Blizzard puts a lot of focus on. You can see this with things like buying gold for $20, in exchange for 1 month of game time. The audience is still casual, but with deep pockets. The store is another example of this trend, even going as far as making a sophisticated machinima. Blizzards mistake is that this usually works when the game is free, which WoW certainly isn't.

    All this while ignoring the original audience that pushed WoWs success. This is the key reason why people seek Vanilla. Sure nostalgia plays a roll, but not a significant one. The game went so casual that even Ghostcrawler said that WoW was designed to be accessible to grandmas. You can't appeal to both, because it requires two totally different games. Like Vanilla WoW and Legion.

    Drugs are bad, who does that stuff. Not me. Keep fishing bud.

    Back to the topic, like multiple said. Game was new, blizz nailed it with MMORpgs in 2004. It's now 2017 and the game is still going strong. That's a big feat.

  5. #1125
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Better part of NJ
    Posts
    10,939
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Actually, you first dismissed all his claims of him being a vanilla player, then dismissed his proof when he showed you concrete proof that he was indeed a vanilla player.
    The stuff he said doesn't seem like he played Vanilla. I'm just as shocked as you are that he did.
    You even mentioned your vanilla PvP was higher than his, and that somehow meant that his opinion had no merit, for some unknown reason.
    It was meant to cause a reaction cause I know someone would get upset over it. Good times.
    Kyanion didn't say the megathread got closed because of "those type" of comments. Talk about out of context or twisting.
    Yep your right. Kinda assume everything you anti-legacy people say is negative.

  6. #1126
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,883
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    The stuff he said doesn't seem like he played Vanilla. I'm just as shocked as you are that he did.
    I'm not.

    It was meant to cause a reaction cause I know someone would get upset over it. Good times.
    So you admit to trolling/baiting. Gotcha.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  7. #1127
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Russia, Chelyabinsk (Tankograd)
    Posts
    13,849
    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    I was a Holy Paladin in Vanilla.
    I know, you was using one type of blessing, one type of seal, and judgement, right? You also used an attack button on your bars.
    And don't lie to me that you didn't, like, you was using heals and such - nope, if you was one of holy paladins you either judged light on a boss, or wisdom. Blessed wisdom, kings or salv and auto-attacked if boss allowed you to

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tyrs ankle View Post
    So spinning BS, gotcha.
    5 mans as a paladin was basically just spamming FoL and decursing too, sorry. Exorcism? Turn Undead? Both highly situational such as polymorph. Hell, you couldn't use turn undead because it was a fear, and fears brought friends.
    Bleeds didn't scale with AP back then, unlikely as shit. Rupture kiting was 100% world of roguecraftesque pvp fare.
    Balance druids. Lol. Insect swarm was part of their actual "rotation" and it was actually useful in raids since it provided miss chance iirc, also lol balance druids in any content ever.
    If you would use turn underd in any dungeon you would probably pay for everyones repair bill
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  8. #1128
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    It was meant to cause a reaction cause I know someone would get upset over it. Good times.
    At least you admit you were just trying to cause a reaction in the thread instead of trying to have an actual discussion.

  9. #1129
    The best way I can discribe it is with a few different games. Look at the original Final Fantasy for Nes. Now look at the GBA/Mobile remakes. The original was unforgiving and frankly brutal. It was challanging because of clunky mechanics and bugs. For example: fleeing is bugged, when an enemy dies all further attacks become ineffective instead of attacking the next monster, plenty of actually useless spells ect. The remake is easy as hell as they fixed many of those bugs and took away some of the annoyances like missing constantly. This is pretty much bang on when comparing Vanilla to live. Now the next example is the original Legend of Zelda vs. Any of the modern ones. In the original it was about the journey, the danger, the struggle to even get a treasure, dying because you were unprepared. Modern Zelda games hand you treasure because they think thats what you want. They took away the danger and exploration to appeal to a wider audiance for the sake of higher sales.

    That is Vanilla vs. Legion. Vanilla is clunky, buggy, unbalanced, missing all the time, adventure, accomplishment for even clearing a dungeon, hours of farming just to raid, grinding gear just for one raid fight, down ranking spells.

    Legion is grinding for artifact power, gear flying at each and every direction, doing quests, story telling, hand holding, very hard raids instead of grinding to be ready for them, queing to go run content with people you will never speak to or see ever again.

    They are both good. Ive been playing since Vanilla. I like Legion. I have 5 110s and 4 legendaries total on 2 of those. I have nothing but good things to say. But Vanilla isnt some nostalgia thing, or rose tinted glasses thing. Its a different, and for some people, better game.

  10. #1130
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Better part of NJ
    Posts
    10,939
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    At least you admit you were just trying to cause a reaction in the thread instead of trying to have an actual discussion.
    No I was trying to have an actually discussion. You and a few other anti-legacy people here don't want to. Any claims about difficulty is criticized. Any claims about a bigger more open world is criticized. Having a discussion with you lot is like dealing with trolls. There's no winning with trolls, so I resort to the power of suggestion. Something to trigger you, like the word PCMasterRace would for so many. Whoever that fellow was that used bad language means it worked.

    You want to keep telling yourselves that it's Nostalgia, and that new feeling you get for the first time. To me it's the greatest protest in gaming history, besides GamerGate. And it attacks Blizzard on two levels. One is how Blizzard took a once hardcore game and made it casual, and thus ignoring the players that gave them success. The other is how Blizzard and many other companies treat consumers who bought a product they can no longer play the version they want. It's becoming an increasing problem for other games as well. I would even go so far to include running ones own server to play the game, cause I still don't see how this is illegal. Especially when the software Mangos is on GitHub without any take down notices or anything. It was even updated 3 days ago.

  11. #1131
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,883
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    No I was trying to have an actually discussion. You and a few other anti-legacy people here don't want to. Any claims about difficulty is criticized. Any claims about a bigger more open world is criticized. Having a discussion with you lot is like dealing with trolls.
    Are you equating 'criticism' to 'trolling'? What is an 'actual discussion' to you, then? Agreeing with you without question?
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  12. #1132
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    No I was trying to have an actually discussion. You and a few other anti-legacy people here don't want to. Any claims about difficulty is criticized. Any claims about a bigger more open world is criticized. Having a discussion with you lot is like dealing with trolls. There's no winning with trolls, so I resort to the power of suggestion. Something to trigger you, like the word PCMasterRace would for so many. Whoever that fellow was that used bad language means it worked.
    Uh huh you were trying to have a discussion then admit to trying to 'trigger' people. That isn't discussion. And you can rail against claims of difficulty in Vanilla compared to now but you are fighting a losing uphill battle if you think Vanilla was more difficult in any capacity outside of maybe leveling to the level cap.

    But anyways since you don't want to have a discussion and want to 'trigger' people I'm just going to place you on ignore and not bother with you any further. Some people on the Pro-Legacy/Pro-Vanilla side were willing to have an actual discussion/debate about the subject but you just admitted you are not of those people. So ta ta.

  13. #1133
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Better part of NJ
    Posts
    10,939
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Are you equating 'criticism' to 'trolling'? What is an 'actual discussion' to you, then? Agreeing with you without question?
    For example the maps when I showed the difference between Legion and just Kalimdor. Kalimdor isn't just bigger, but demonstratively bigger. Kalimdor is just half of Vanilla WoW to give you perspective. Or how Vanilla mobs are genuinely hard. Not harder, cause whatever Legion has is Easy Bake Oven easy. Calling it harder wouldn't give Vanilla justice. But you dismiss that too, cause reasons.

    This is why nobody can have a real discussion with you and Kyanion who's apparently doing me a favor and ignoring me. Either your memory of Vanilla is very poor, or you're in denial. Could be both. It's trolling cause there's no cohesion to your reasoning.

  14. #1134
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    No I was trying to have an actually discussion. You and a few other anti-legacy people here don't want to. Any claims about difficulty is criticized. Any claims about a bigger more open world is criticized. Having a discussion with you lot is like dealing with trolls. There's no winning with trolls, so I resort to the power of suggestion. Something to trigger you, like the word PCMasterRace would for so many. Whoever that fellow was that used bad language means it worked.

    You want to keep telling yourselves that it's Nostalgia, and that new feeling you get for the first time. To me it's the greatest protest in gaming history, besides GamerGate. And it attacks Blizzard on two levels. One is how Blizzard took a once hardcore game and made it casual, and thus ignoring the players that gave them success. The other is how Blizzard and many other companies treat consumers who bought a product they can no longer play the version they want. It's becoming an increasing problem for other games as well. I would even go so far to include running ones own server to play the game, cause I still don't see how this is illegal. Especially when the software Mangos is on GitHub without any take down notices or anything. It was even updated 3 days ago.
    Lmao.

    Jesus christ, you're dumb.
    The "hardcore" scene in vanilla wasn't hardcore, at all. They were often, just not complete dogshit at the game.

  15. #1135
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrs ankle View Post
    Lmao.

    Jesus christ, you're dumb.
    The "hardcore" scene in vanilla wasn't hardcore, at all. They were often, just not complete dogshit at the game.
    It was a well known thing that WoW was the more casual game because other MMOs in the market at the time were far more hardcore. That is what likely doomed them to fall to the more casual accepting WoW. EQ, FFXI, UO to name a few were much more hardcore oriented, with EQ leading the pack in that regard by a mile.

  16. #1136
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,883
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    For example the maps when I showed the difference between Legion and just Kalimdor. Kalimdor isn't just bigger, but demonstratively bigger. Kalimdor is just half of Vanilla WoW to give you perspective.
    So what? They're expansions. They're bringing 10 more levels (5 in some cases) and sometimes a new race or class, not a whole new 60 levels and eight more races. What's the point in saying 'Kalimdor is bigger than the Broken Isles/Outland/Northrend/Pandaria/Whatever-new-continent'?

    Or how Vanilla mobs are genuinely hard.
    So what? Having normal mobs that take less damage and deal more damage is not an objectively better attribute, especially in a game designed toward the more casual player.

    But you dismiss that too, cause reasons.
    I dismiss that because subjective preference is subjective.

    It's trolling cause there's no cohesion to your reasoning.
    I don't think I ever contradicted myself, in this thread.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  17. #1137
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So what? They're expansions. They're bringing 10 more levels (5 in some cases) and sometimes a new race or class, not a whole new 60 levels and eight more races. What's the point in saying 'Kalimdor is bigger than the Broken Isles/Outland/Northrend/Pandaria/Whatever-new-continent'?
    It was stuff I already said to him earlier that he just hand waved away. Every 'expansion' that was released after Vanilla has of course been smaller because they are expanding upon the base game. I don't know that many expansions that are larger than the base games they are expanding upon in like any genre. It sure isn't the case in board games like Talisman, other MMOs like EQ never did it either.

  18. #1138
    And this is why these threads are cancer. You have people with very selective memory and very thin skins.

  19. #1139
    Herald of the Titans Klingers's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Parliament of the Daleks
    Posts
    2,940
    Newness. Sandbox. More player agency, less railroading. Less arbitrary single-expansion "systems" to suck every little skerrick of joy from your game experience. Progression was cleaner, simpler (even if it took longer). RNG in gearing was where RNG stopped.

    I.e . you start a character. You level that character. You take that character through dungeons. Then you raid or PVP with that character.

    No secret bases nobody asked for that look identical to everyone else's to suck your soul away, no effectively time-gated bars to fill up once you hit endgame, no Magic Fun Points™ of any form to grind out to upgrade some random arbitrary thing of the week, no random sockets, no staggered item level drops, no titanforging, no legendaries to farm...
    Last edited by Klingers; 2017-01-18 at 06:13 AM.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  20. #1140
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Computer Chair
    Posts
    2,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildpantz View Post
    There is only 1 benefit with vanilla cause legion is a million times better as a game BUT the social aspect making friends (while doing the wpl cauldrons) grouping upp questing just standing there talking getting to people around the world. Vanilla was horrible basicly you only had 1 viable spec per class ofc some say otherwise but if you wanted to be a serverfirst raider killing the world dragons there was no choice.
    Yeah but in Vanilla when you got a piece of loot or crafted something you got a dopamine rush so hard your head felt dizzy for 2 days and your WoW addiction just got 20x stronger.

    In Legion it feels like a trip to the Welfare Office or Vegas Strip Casino
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •