What's the point of flying half a year away from now?

[ComputerNerd]

Right now they need to release content that revolves around flying. TBC had the daily quest zone for the dragon mount, and Wrath had Icecrown and Storm Peaks, for which flying was mandatory. People have gotten too used to flying as a crutch which is what leads to the endless whining about when is flying to be re-implemented.

There is no zone released currently where flying is a must. People just want to be able to avoid content that they view as pointless. Suramar is a prime example of this as most would rather bitch and moan about the city's layout, rather than learn it. And I can guarantee that at least 90% of those crying over flying will most likely just afk in flight over some area rather than use it for something useful.

Flying does not add anything interesting to the travel experience unless we can do something with it.
I don't see the point of having flying exclusive content that is simply that way because you can't get there without a flying mount.
And this is coming from a pro-flyer.
My reasons for wanting flying is choice, in that it lets me dedicate time that isn't spent negotiating the ground into other content.

Flying has a lot more potential to be interesting, in offering new mechanics beyond being "easy".

[SirCowdog]

I can't wait for flying to be added and see people start bitching about how world quests are too simple because you just fly there and complete it within seconds because there are no obstacles.

Complaints about world quests being too easy already exist. FFS man, there's a WQ where all you do is land at the FP and click squirrels and nuts. Trying to tie flying to complaints about WQs is just weak.

[Lane]

I can't think of any logical reason why flying shouldn't have been in 7.1.5. We've been using ground mounts for how long now? I think this would've been a perfect amount of time to wait for flying.

Agreed. It's been long enough that I have 10 level 110s, most of which have fully completed every zone but Suramar. I'm rapidly running out of alts who will even benefit from having flying while leveling, although, it'll still be nice for WQs.

I also finally got the Astral Cloud Serpent from Mogu'shan Vaults, a mount I coveted for a long time, yet I have to watch as it miserably slithers across the ground in the Broken Isles instead of flying majestically as it should.

[Taeldorian]

Agreed. It's been long enough that I have 10 level 110s, most of which have fully completed every zone but Suramar. I'm rapidly running out of alts who will even benefit from having flying while leveling, although, it'll still be nice for WQs.

I also finally got the Astral Cloud Serpent from Mogu'shan Vaults, a mount I coveted for a long time, yet I have to watch as it miserably slithers across the ground in the Broken Isles instead of flying majestically as it should.

I feel you mate. I've got a few mounts I'd like to fly with but I can wait. I just feel like there's no real reason flying couldn't have been implemented in 7.1.5. Whatever though, 7.2 brings some outdoor content that's part of the second half of pathfinder, so I'm hyped for that.

Grats btw!

[Berengil]

The point?

For me the point is this: I will finally level an alt past 100. I've done 1 toon from 100-110, and completed Broken Isles Pathfinder Part 1. Once part two is available, I will complete it on the same toon. Then, when Blizz turns flight on, I will level numerous toons to max.

I will do their "see the stupid trees/roots/mountains that we put right in your way" once. No more.

[Coffeexbean]

Flying is just a carrot on a stick but regardless I think Blizz implementation of flying mounts is the best compromise and it actually feels like a reward. Flying is more special and not just anyone gets it handed to them, you have to earn it. Flying was cool in tbc because it was sooo expensive that only a smaller minority of players had one or had to grind for a while to get the gold for one. I was one of those people that didnt have one until the end and I had the slow one. But over the expansions flying accessibility isn't good for the social part of the game, it feels like you are playing alone and you never see anyone out in the world.

[Perinum]

totally ready for flight to be here...

[Klingers]

We can obviously look past the bullshit of excuses of "experiencing the world" as that argument goes out the window the second you hit level cap and have finished storyline quests in a zone. Lack of flight is just another time gate. The idea is (in theory) you stay subscribed longer because your play sessions are lengthened and your progressed lessened by inconvenience.

In reality though I suspect far more people are like me. I work full-time and I value my off-hours. It might be leisure time but if it's finite then you value it more. Legion did it for me. It passed my tolerance threshold for timegates pretty much right off the bat so I just said "fuck it."

In WoD I came back briefly when flight was unlocked, burned through a lot of gold buying rep tokens so I could spent as little time in the Dumpster Fire of a zone that was Tanaan as possible, unlocked flying and then realised how pointless the whole endeavor was. At that point it was more about having flying unlocked because I could fly everywhere else.

In Legion? I think I've learned my lesson. I know there's heaps more content but how much of it really retains its value after the third time you've done it?

TLDR; Value proposition of flight doesn't match the time required to unlocked it. Circular logic at work too. "I need to fly so I can access the content I've burned myself doing to unlock flight". Bleh.

[Eats Compost]

We can obviously look past the bullshit of excuses of "experiencing the world" as that argument goes out the window the second you hit level cap and have finished storyline quests in a zone. Lack of flight is just another time gate. The idea is (in theory) you stay subscribed longer because your play sessions are lengthened and your progressed lessened by inconvenience.

In reality though I suspect far more people are like me. I work full-time and I value my off-hours. It might be leisure time but if it's finite then you value it more. Legion did it for me. It passed my tolerance threshold for timegates pretty much right off the bat so I just said "fuck it."

In WoD I came back briefly when flight was unlocked, burned through a lot of gold buying rep tokens so I could spent as little time in the Dumpster Fire of a zone that was Tanaan as possible, unlocked flying and then realised how pointless the whole endeavor was. At that point it was more about having flying unlocked because I could fly everywhere else.

In Legion? I think I've learned my lesson. I know there's heaps more content but how much of it really retains its value after the third time you've done it?

TLDR; Value proposition of flight doesn't match the time required to unlocked it. Circular logic at work too. "I need to fly so I can access the content I've burned myself doing to unlock flight". Bleh.

That all seems to revolve around the underlying game not being good, rather than it actually being about flight, no?

I mean, as soon as we can start using descriptors like "dumpster fire", something is clearly wrong with the game at a base level.

[Klingers]

I mean, as soon as we can start using descriptors like "dumpster fire", something is clearly wrong with the game at a base level.

I actually agree with you on some level. But to a point certain things like a more sandboxy self-direct endgame, flight, strong lore and story can help to mask or ease some of that. Personally I started playing WoW back in early 2005 because I was a Warcraft fan, not an MMO player. I realise everyone's different but visuals, spectacle and story payoff in expansions like BC, Wrath and MoP kept me engaged.

I was never sold on either Garrisons or time travel in WoD, nor was I that excited to go back to Draenor the second I realised Karabor as a capital and Shattrath as a raid weren't going to be a thing. Legion's game systems break my heart because they're so grindy and anti-fun that I just can't be fucked. And that's a shame because there's so much bloody brilliant story, art and lore. I love the game when it's firing on all cylinders but it was certainly never for the hotbar MMO combat.

[Deleted]

Personally i could go for flying. I have done alot of WQ and explored close to every inch of all zones by now- twice.
I can't wait to explore it from the sky now
However many seems to forget how flying have a impact on the server economy - herbs and ores often drop alot in price as people farm it faster. Gathering professions become less useful as a way to make gold.
Flying also have a impact on how the world "seems" alive, as when everyone fly around, and only dives down to kill quest mobs.
It's to late to completely remove flying, so I think pushing it to patches like x.2 is a better solution

[Elim Garak]

However many seems to forget how flying have a impact on the server economy - herbs and ores often drop alot in price as people farm it faster. Gathering professions become less useful as a way to make gold.

Nope. No effect. Prices drop a lot as expansion ages, that was always the case.
Flying has nothing to do with it because it doesn't increase the amount of resources that you gather - it just makes you gather the available nodes faster by cutting travel time. But there's a limited number of nodes and they have respawn times.
Anyone who had a gathering profession in expansions that handled flight right can attest that most of the time you just flew along the gathering addon's path waiting for the nodes to pop. It was important to be there first due to competition. Something that is completely absent in Legion as all nodes are personal.

Flying also have a impact on how the world "seems" alive, as when everyone fly around, and only dives down to kill quest mobs.
It's to late to completely remove flying, so I think pushing it to patches like x.2 is a better solution

No it doesn't. Players don't make the world feel alive - they make it feel crowded. If world needs players to feel alive then there's something wrong with the world. Not to mention that flying doesn't remove players from the world. With flying you will see the same amount of players in all the usual places. Only instead of using a whistle and disappearing in an immersion breaking manner they will mount up and fly away normally. You can even follow them if you want.

[Dormie]

Nope. No effect. Prices drop a lot as expansion ages, that was always the case.
Flying has nothing to do with it because it doesn't increase the amount of resources that you gather - it just makes you gather the available nodes faster by cutting travel time. But there's a limited number of nodes and they have respawn times.
Anyone who had a gathering profession in expansions that handled flight right can attest that most of the time you just flew along the gathering addon's path waiting for the nodes to pop. It was important to be there first due to competition. Something that is completely absent in Legion as all nodes are personal.



No it doesn't. Players don't make the world feel alive - they make it feel crowded. If world needs players to feel alive then there's something wrong with the world. Not to mention that flying doesn't remove players from the world. With flying you will see the same amount of players in all the usual places. Only instead of using a whistle and disappearing in an immersion breaking manner they will mount up and fly away normally. You can even follow them if you want.

Players make the world feel alive. You don't see near as many players when flying is enabled.

[Fang7986]

Can't understand why they have to delay flying so much.......

because it ruins the core part of the game which is suppose to be killing mobs and questing

[Deleted]

Players make the world feel alive. You don't see near as many players when flying is enabled.

Yeah you do. Running on the ground or flying isn't what determines how alive the world is, the amount of meaningful content to do does that. 7.2 will provide a bunch more, so I wouldn't really expect the world to be empty just because people are flying around. But sure, quote me on that and feel free to get back to me with screenshots when flying is enabled.

[Eats Compost]

I actually agree with you on some level. But to a point certain things like a more sandboxy self-direct endgame, flight, strong lore and story can help to mask or ease some of that. Personally I started playing WoW back in early 2005 because I was a Warcraft fan, not an MMO player. I realise everyone's different but visuals, spectacle and story payoff in expansions like BC, Wrath and MoP kept me engaged.

I was never sold on either Garrisons or time travel in WoD, nor was I that excited to go back to Draenor the second I realised Karabor as a capital and Shattrath as a raid weren't going to be a thing. Legion's game systems break my heart because they're so grindy and anti-fun that I just can't be fucked. And that's a shame because there's so much bloody brilliant story, art and lore. I love the game when it's firing on all cylinders but it was certainly never for the hotbar MMO combat.

Personally, I find that WoW's stories and "spectacle" are consistently terrible. Some of that is down to creative direction, but a lot of it is simply because an MMO structured like WoW is a terrible delivery mechanism for these things. The engine is bad for dealing with anything visual that isn't a prerendered cutscene, the story is fragmented and drawn out in a way that never does it any favours, and most story events have to involve the player character, a silent protagonist who apparently decides both everything and nothing. Not a fan, myself.

It was cool in the late 2000s for novelty, but I don't even take it seriously in those areas these days.

[SirCowdog]

Players make the world feel alive. You don't see near as many players when flying is enabled.

There's something fundamentally wrong with the game when you would prefer to have other people waste their time in order to stoke your personal perception of how "alive" a game should "feel". Maybe those people are more interested in actually playing the game and accomplishing things than standing around so your desire to feel a certain way is satisfied.

Besides which, if the content is interesting or rewarding enough, people will stop to engage with it anyway, regardless of how they get there. Whether someone flies in, glider in, or rides in will not matter. The fact that the content was good enough to begin with will ensure players hang around long enough for you to see them.

So you're holding flight responsible for something it wouldn't cause.

- - - Updated - - -

because it ruins the core part of the game which is suppose to be killing mobs and questing

Flying mounts never killed any monsters for you. They never clicked the objective for you either. Again, this is blaming flight for something it's not actually responsible for.

[Klingers]

Personally, I find that WoW's stories and "spectacle" are consistently terrible. Some of that is down to creative direction, but a lot of it is simply because an MMO structured like WoW is a terrible delivery mechanism for these things. The engine is bad for dealing with anything visual that isn't a prerendered cutscene, the story is fragmented and drawn out in a way that never does it any favours, and most story events have to involve the player character, a silent protagonist who apparently decides both everything and nothing. Not a fan, myself.

It was cool in the late 2000s for novelty, but I don't even take it seriously in those areas these days.

100% with you on that, timing and all. WoW was best back in Wrath-era. Been pretty down-hill since then. I'm also not a fan of WoW's direction.

BY the way when I use the word "Spectacle" I'm less talking about stakes escalation or massive story beats in the game as it is now, I'm more talking about heading down the gorge for the first time on the steamer ship into Howling Fjord, or stepping through the Dark Portal for the first time, getting that one pounding note, seeing an army of demons pusing against a line of defenders, then you rotate your camera around and see the portal...

I think all there railroaded starting experiences and stupid little scenarios they put us through now are trying to be "epic" actually do them a disservice. They've lost that ability to just punch home a cool moment organically.

[Dhrizzle]

We can obviously look past the bullshit of excuses of "experiencing the world" as that argument goes out the window the second you hit level cap and have finished storyline quests in a zone. Lack of flight is just another time gate. The idea is (in theory) you stay subscribed longer because your play sessions are lengthened and your progressed lessened by inconvenience.

This argument doesn't hold up when you remember that MoP had massive timegates and complaints about the amount you "needed" to do each day despite having flight, whereas WoD had no flight but barely anything worth doing out in the world.

In other words the amount you have to do each day and how long you need to stay subbed to progress is completely independent of whether or not you can fly, Blizzard are gating flight because they prefer the way the content plays without it.

[Eats Compost]

100% with you on that, timing and all. WoW was best back in Wrath-era. Been pretty down-hill since then. I'm also not a fan of WoW's direction.

BY the way when I use the word "Spectacle" I'm less talking about stakes escalation or massive story beats in the game as it is now, I'm more talking about heading down the gorge for the first time on the steamer ship into Howling Fjord, or stepping through the Dark Portal for the first time, getting that one pounding note, seeing an army of demons pusing against a line of defenders, then you rotate your camera around and see the portal...

I think all there railroaded starting experiences and stupid little scenarios they put us through now are trying to be "epic" actually do them a disservice. They've lost that ability to just punch home a cool moment organically.

Ehh, even for stuff like the Dark Portal, I still put that in the "cool because novelty" basket. I remember it being cool going through the portal and looking around, but it was cool because there were a huge amount of enemy NPCs marching forward, friendly NPCs of the opposite faction fighting them back, etc... None of those are actually crazy good by themselves, it just happened to be the first time things like that showed up in such a way. Wrath was similar, in the sense that it introduced phasing and ingame cutscenes. Just novelty because something happened for the first time.

For a relevant comparison, I'd point to something I played recently; Dark Souls 3. That game has a ton of "arrive and pan your camera around" glory moments that are just way more appealing than anything WoW could possibly produce, due to technical limitations. It highlights the difference between what I expect from spectacle in WoW compared to what I expect from spectacle in everything else. Even the moments in WoW that were conceptually cool (fighting on Deathwing's back, for example, shouldn't have been lame but was) just don't work well for a variety of engine-related reasons and others.