What's the point of flying half a year away from now?

[Deleted]

This argument doesn't hold up when you remember that MoP had massive timegates and complaints about the amount you "needed" to do each day despite having flight, whereas WoD had no flight but barely anything worth doing out in the world.

In other words the amount you have to do each day and how long you need to stay subbed to progress is completely independent of whether or not you can fly, Blizzard are gating flight because they prefer the way the content plays without it.

While I agree completely with what you say, for me flying is also a form of content. Most of the screenshots in my gamefolder are from sunsets/sunrises and amazing views from above.
There were expansions with tons to do, MoP was in that regard, for me, an amazing expansion, I did rarefarming routes (maaany rarefarming routes), herbfarming routes, soil farming for tillers, the dinosaur riding guys farming routes (don't remember their name), and ofc flying to the questhubs with some guildies.
Plenty of content. And flying just made it more efficient.
The difference with WoD and Legion is so big. I have played for almost 10 years, and never have I been bored, but in both WoD and Legion I have been bored, altough for different reasons.
WoD just didn't have much to do, flying or no flying would not have made a difference. I quit over the 'no flying', but I probably would have quit some time later anyway, due to it being such a boring expansion.
For Legion however, I felt like there was plenty to do, even if it was just class or artifact stuff, altough it was getting repetitive, especially when playing alts as well. Until one thing bothered me more than stuff being repetitive, it was doing repetitive stuff on annoying terrain, a mountain between me and my objective, or a cliff, or many mobs, or stupid roots where any horse or car could drive over, but not in WoW horses can't jump over angle-high roots. I unsubbed again over no flight a couple months ago. I was excited for them to have a 'flight-plan' for Legion, I did the first part, hoping the next patch would unlock flying, and since it didn't I quit.
Probably more because I hope flying will make the game excited again, or will 'add content', or maybe something else. But the conclusion for me is the same, if the game had plenty of fun things to do, I shouldn't be bothered with riding there in stead of flying there.

[Raelbo]

This argument doesn't hold up when you remember that MoP had massive timegates and complaints about the amount you "needed" to do each day despite having flight, whereas WoD had no flight but barely anything worth doing out in the world.

In other words the amount you have to do each day and how long you need to stay subbed to progress is completely independent of whether or not you can fly, Blizzard are gating flight because they prefer the way the content plays without it.

Agreed. Why it is that some people just have to look for sinister motives behind every design decision when a much simpler explanation will suffice perplexes me.

That being said I disagree with Blizzard's assessment of flying. While I agree with some of the thinking behind it, I think they're stuck on IMO a fatally flawed mindset that flying breaks the game.

I get that flying will break immersion at the start of a new expansion, and for that reason I can accept that with a new expansion we don't have flying. But this idea that witholding flying for as long as possible will somehow make the game better is flawed because the underlying assumption is that immersion is everything. It's not. They have actually lost sight on what is important, and immersion in and of itself is not important. What is important is that the game is fun. And immersion can, and often does, make the game more fun. But what don't seem to realise is that immersion can become an annoyance.

It's like the Deathbringer Saurfang RP scene from Icecrown Citadel (horde perspective). The immersion was awesome....the first time you encounter the boss. But after pull #57 everyone was grumbling about "We named him Dranosh. It means heart of blah blah blah".

That's the thing about flying that Blizzard just don't seem to get, that they don't want to get. And the fact that a tiny, vocal, anti-flying minority keeps validating their opinion enables them to continue to not get it. Immersion is only fun for so long, and when it stops being fun, flying is the silver bullet that allows players to keep enjoying the game.


Flying should have been out already and 7.1 or 7.1.5 would have been a good time to do so. Making us wait for 7.2 (or whenever they deign to grudgingly allow us to take to the skies again) is doing far more harm than good at this point.

[meroko]

Nope. No effect. Prices drop a lot as expansion ages, that was always the case.
Flying has nothing to do with it because it doesn't increase the amount of resources that you gather - it just makes you gather the available nodes faster by cutting travel time.

Um that is absoultely an effect on prices. Gathering faster means more gathered in a short amount of time. Respawn on nodes isn't that long and you get to them FAR faster with flying activated. Flying is absolutely the reason for price drops in prevous expansions, not aging of the expansion as you suggested. That is a minor factor, flying is a HUGE factor in it.

[Raelbo]

Um that is absoultely an effect on prices. Gathering faster means more gathered in a short amount of time. Respawn on nodes isn't that long and you get to them FAR faster with flying activated. Flying is absolutely the reason for price drops in prevous expansions, not aging of the expansion as you suggested. That is a minor factor, flying is a HUGE factor in it.

There's probably merit in both of your arguments. But it's actually irrelevant because even if we assume that flying results in price drops in the economy, that is not really a bad thing.

[WowIsDead64]

I don't know. The longer I see, how tons of 110lvls still do Tanaan with clear intention of easy obtaining flying - the more I start thinking, that Blizzard intend flying to be something like old raid transmog runs. I.e. something, that shouldn't be done, when content is still actual, but as something, that encourages players to do already obsoleted content.

[Deleted]

Give the damn flying NOW! pots and flask are insanely overpriced in the auction house so i got to farm herbs by myself. That wouldn't be that much of a problem if suramar wasnt that overfarmed as it is. Just let me fly so this isnt that much of a chore.

[caervek]

because it ruins the core part of the game which is suppose to be killing mobs and questing

Strange, it was perfectly fine for 8 years, and 4 of those years (TBC/WotLK) are considered the games golden era...

[Raelbo]

Interesting that you say you don't get that people look for "sinister motives" - and then do the very same thing.

How so? I never said Blizzard's motives were sinister.

Who says Blizzard "doesn't seem to get it"? It might very well a deliberate decision, like it or not. You yourself say in your post you disagree with Blizzard. Fair enough. Seems they also disagree with you.

Well, yes. I think they're wrong. I never said it was something they did with sinister intent, simply misguided thinking. I've already explained why I think they think the way they do, and where I think their logic went wrong. I really can't see how what I wrote can be construed as me saying they have some sinister motive. I think Blizzard's decisions are generally based on what they think will maximise the player experience and when it goes wrong it's due to not properly understanding what drives the player experience rather than a more sinister motive of pushing their (often profit based) agendas ahead of consideration for what players want. And I don't say this because I think Blizzard are just a bunch of nice guys who don't care about profits and revenues etc, but because maximising the player experience is a legitimate approach to achieving the best profits.

IF the lack of flying is what drives people away, they could have easily let us unlock it 7.1.5. Just with a hasty, panicked, short quest. What I gather from the posts on this forum though, it is legendaries, AP, AK or class balance that has people outraged much more.

Firstly, just because there may be more pressing issues right now, doesn't mean that the lack of flying is not an issue (personally I am fine with legendaries, AP and AK, but I do acknowledge that they are generating a lot of noise on the forums, so clearly there is a lot of "outrage").

Secondly, the flying issue is one I expect will start to escalate as time goes on. Based on the WoD discussions on topic, I would say that most people are fine with the principles of not having flying at the start of the expansion, and unlocking it with something like Pathfinder. Which means that we're not going to start complaining until we've reached our thresholds of patience.

Personally I would have been fine with flying dropping with 7.1, but I am also fine with waiting until 7.1.5. And honestly, it's not a huge deal for me to wait for 7.2 - certainly not something worth getting upset over. So for me right now, the lack of flying has simply ticked from being a non-issue to a minor annoyance. After 7.2 it will probably be a major annoyance.

What annoys me more is not so much the lack of flying itself but the reasons, with which as I have already said, are IMO based on bad arguments and reasoning. I can accept that things might not be the way I like them if I can understand the reasons behind them to the point that I would often go against my personal preferences in favour of going with what is most reasonable.

[Dormie]

There's something fundamentally wrong with the game when you would prefer to have other people waste their time in order to stoke your personal perception of how "alive" a game should "feel". Maybe those people are more interested in actually playing the game and accomplishing things than standing around so your desire to feel a certain way is satisfied.

Besides which, if the content is interesting or rewarding enough, people will stop to engage with it anyway, regardless of how they get there. Whether someone flies in, glider in, or rides in will not matter. The fact that the content was good enough to begin with will ensure players hang around long enough for you to see them.

So you're holding flight responsible for something it wouldn't cause.

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Flying mounts never killed any monsters for you. They never clicked the objective for you either. Again, this is blaming flight for something it's not actually responsible for.

Too fucking bad. Stop crying like a little fucking brat already and accept cheat codes won't be turned on for however many more months.

[Deleted]

7.3 would be waaaaay too long for most pro-fliers. It would even make me quit completely and not just temporarily. 7.1 launch would be too early (even for me), so able to complete last bits during 7.1 would have been perfect.

I meant we have 7.3 which means Legion has atleast 1 more year. People have already quit till 7.2

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Players make the world feel alive. You don't see near as many players when flying is enabled.

The world is already dead. People either sit in their class hall waiting to dungeon and raid or teleporting from FP to FP. I recently levelled Val'sharah and probably saw 4 people max. The only place you see people is at WQs and flying won't remove them

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Too fucking bad. Stop crying like a little fucking brat already and accept cheat codes won't be turned on for however many more months.

It will be Blizzard crying when subs become to plummet because of their own stubbornness. I will happily tolerate no flying for a few more months but any longer and i'll just unsub till it hits because everything is just becoming tedious not fun. I'll never understand the QQ against flight in WoW, FFXIV has no issues

[Dormie]

I meant we have 7.3 which means Legion has atleast 1 more year. People have already quit till 7.2

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The world is already dead. People either sit in their class hall waiting to dungeon and raid or teleporting from FP to FP. I recently levelled Val'sharah and probably saw 4 people max. The only place you see people is at WQs and flying won't remove them

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It will be Blizzard crying when subs become to plummet because of their own stubbornness. I will happily tolerate no flying for a few more months but any longer and i'll just unsub till it hits because everything is just becoming tedious not fun. I'll never understand the QQ against flight in WoW, FFXIV has no issues

So be it. Bye.

[Lutris]

Too fucking bad. Stop crying like a little fucking brat already and accept cheat codes won't be turned on for however many more months.

it's funny how flying is a "cheat code", but the flight whistle isn't, even though the latter is far more reminiscent of the old game genie "walk through walls" command.

[Xandrigity]

Meh I really like flying I probably would have stuck around longer than I did if flying was at lvl cap. Legion has a lot more turn offs than just flying but it was high on my list. I thought I might come back in 7.2 when flying came back but I really think I'll sit this whole expansion out. Did not like, flying or not.

[Deleted]

It will be Blizzard crying when subs become to plummet because of their own stubbornness. I will happily tolerate no flying for a few more months but any longer and i'll just unsub till it hits because everything is just becoming tedious not fun. I'll never understand the QQ against flight in WoW, FFXIV has no issues

I much prefer the game without flying, I enjoy traveling on foot to daily quests etc.. Just feels less rushed all of the time, makes the game feel a bit more relaxing

[Deleted]

I much prefer the game without flying, I enjoy traveling on foot to daily quests etc.. Just feels less rushed all of the time, makes the game feel a bit more relaxing

I agree for the first feẁ months but once you've explored every inch 5x over its no longer relaxing or fun

[Deleted]

Yeah the problem is world/daily quests are an outdated boring concept. Flying would just make it more bearable but the real problem is the concept of doing the same set of quests every day/week.

Fun fact : there were no daily quests in vanilla.

Oh that nostalgia hurts.

Let me guess, guys like this are the same crying about nothing to do if there are no world quests or daylies, right? You are such a bunch of whiny pussies....


On topic:

I don't feel the world is that bad at all to be honest. I don't feel flying is that mandatory right now. Yes, Suramar City sucks....but whatever, If I don't have to move in there I don't. The whistle is enough for me right now, every 5 minutes able to be teleported to the nearest flight master is great. Rarely I need it more often and have to walk.

[TheLimonTree]

Complaints about world quests being too easy already exist. FFS man, there's a WQ where all you do is land at the FP and click squirrels and nuts. Trying to tie flying to complaints about WQs is just weak.

Flying makes you consume content at an accelerated rate. Whether it's world quests or not, anything with flying involved because tedious at best very quickly.

Besides, I more meant for an increase in complains. As we all know if it exists somebody on the internet will complain.

[Beazy]

Isnt flying supposed to be added next patch in 7.2?

Also, If I purchased legion today, how long would it take me to finish the first part of the flying quest chain?

[Cwimge]

It's so blizzard can say they relented and put flying back in, duh. So long as it happens 1 minute before legion ends the white knights will come swarming outtathe woodwork in their defence

[SirCowdog]

Flying makes you consume content at an accelerated rate. Whether it's world quests or not, anything with flying involved because tedious at best very quickly.

Besides, I more meant for an increase in complains. As we all know if it exists somebody on the internet will complain.

No, flying doesn't make you consume content at an accelerated rate. Part of the problem is that WoW's open world content is so heavily burdened with unnecessary filler that I can see why you might think that. But what flying does is simply get you past all that useless "content" to the actual objectives. That's not consuming at a faster rate, that's cutting out the bullshit. Does that make sense?

Besides which, flying doesn't actually click objectives for you. It doesn't kill monsters for you. You still have to land and do that yourself. If Blizzard doesn't want people to blaze through their content so fast, maybe they should stop designing such over-simplified quests(looking at you squirrel-bashing quest). How much of wow's open world is "kill X" or "collect x" or "click x", I wonder?

Maybe instead of trying to point the finger at Flight as the great ruination of questing, you should step back and take a hard look at the actual quests themselves.

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I much prefer the game without flying, I enjoy traveling on foot to daily quests etc.. Just feels less rushed all of the time, makes the game feel a bit more relaxing

I absolutely can respect that. However, have you ever considered that other people might prefer a game where they have the option to fly if they want? Or that even if flying was in the game now that you wouldn't need to unlock it if you preferred to stay on the ground?

And what if Blizzard made ground mounts more interesting in the same patch that flying was unlocked? I don't mean something weak like a simple speed increase, either. I mean things like added utility. Maybe something like certain mounts getting special abilities, similar to how each hunter pet used to have slightly different abilities? What if you could unlock these abilities across all mounts as you did different achievements or quests? For example: Once you completed the Waterstrider unlock, ALL your mounts gained waterwalking.