1. #1

    EPGP System rules

    Hello,

    I wanted to take your thoughts on 3 actions our guilds are willing to do and need your kind feedback.

    - Reward 10k EP “worth of 5 full raid attendance” to ppl with lvl 54 wep by 27th Jan
    - When we start raiding on NH only GP will be reset on EPGP.
    - On NH Normal and HC ppl will be charged GP on tire Tokens.


    Thnaks

  2. #2
    What exactly do you want to know? The amount of EP/GP differs per guild, tier tokens ideally should be given out via Loot Council (prioritising 2s/4s over 1st and third pieces, and those with decent bonus vs negligible, etc). We still charge for them, loot is loot at the end of the day.

    My guild doesn't reset EPGP, we simply do a huge decay - normally it's 7%/week, on a new raid (actual raid, not like ToV) we up that decay to 75%, which means people who were raiding get a slight bonus for the first couple of bosses in the new raid, it keeps them raiding through the farm, basically.
    Last edited by Soisoisoi; 2017-01-18 at 10:46 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    What exactly do you want to know?
    if a its a good Idea to do this, i was discussing with officers that both 1st point and 3rd point don't make sense

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    What exactly do you want to know? The amount of EP/GP differs per guild, tier tokens ideally should be given out via Loot Council (prioritising 2s/4s over 1st and third pieces, and those with decent bonus vs negligible, etc). We still charge for them, loot is loot at the end of the day.

    My guild doesn't reset EPGP, we simply do a huge decay - normally it's 7%/week, on a new raid (actual raid, not like ToV) we up that decay to 75%, which means people who were raiding get a slight bonus for the first couple of bosses in the new raid, it keeps them raiding through the farm, basically.
    Thank you sir for your feedback

  4. #4
    You still use EPGP? Why not Loot Council or PL?

    Anyway, can only comment on point 1. Are you clearing Mythic Nighthold within 1 or 2 weeks? If not, nobody should care about 54 points and it's ludicrous that you punish people for not having it (a bonus for the ones with 54 points is the same as a penalty for the rest).

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Enrro View Post
    if a its a good Idea to do this, i was discussing with officers that both 1st point and 3rd point don't make sense
    It depends on your guild, if you expect people to do X things to raid, it makes perfect sense. If you're not pushing early Mythics then it doesn't really matter that much. That's up to your officers to figure out. As for the third option, like I said above (edited it to add more fyi!), loot is loot. I see no reason not to charge people for it. Still prioritise the 2/4s etc over 1st and third, even if lower EPGP, for the guild's benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    You still use EPGP? Why not Loot Council or PL?
    EPGP is good if done right, it keeps loot fair, and keeps people raiding via incentives. We use LootCouncil on top of EPGP, as mentioned in my first comment. Obviously if you're pushing high end Mythic you'll just use pure LootCouncil/common sense and most people will understand what's going on, especially since you're likely to be loot funnelling anyway.
    Last edited by Soisoisoi; 2017-01-18 at 10:51 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    You still use EPGP? Why not Loot Council or PL?

    Anyway, can only comment on point 1. Are you clearing Mythic Nighthold within 1 or 2 weeks? If not, nobody should care about 54 points and it's ludicrous that you punish people for not having it (a bonus for the ones with 54 points is the same as a penalty for the rest).
    EPGP in mainly used for Mythic which we will start in 5-6 weeks maybe and initially we agreed on Loot council for both Normal and HC and keep EPGP only for mythic. but yes i agree on ur point with the 54 reward and thats what im trying to convince the guys

  7. #7
    Was the 54 points bonus decided this week ? One week ultimatum looks like a kneejerk decision to me. No matter your current progress, if 54 is needed, it should have been clear to every one for months.

  8. #8
    I think we got something like weekly 20% decay. Always.

    No extras. Nothing. This means simply that if you come to raids, you get EP. If you don't come to raids, you don't get EP and will keep losing it.

    The more you make extra demands, the more chance there will be for drama.

    You should choose the fairest method that applies to everyone and no extras to anyone. You just need to have rules that apply to everyone. Minimun amount of attendance. Food, flasks, echants... all ready always. Get the minimum effort rules to everyone. No extra stuff for doing X.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    If you are in a hardcore progression guild, why do they use EPGP and not LC? LC is much better with all team members compromised to progress, where everybody understands the loot distribution because it is the best for the guild as whole.

    If you are more casual that need EPGP system to distribuit the loot because people might get angry with LC and want to avoid drama, why on hell ar they asking for 54 ranks in weap? And how many EP do you award per raid? We award 150+300 EP per night. 10000 EP for 5 raids isn't a lot? (2000 EP per run)

    About reseting GP, looks like against the idea of EPGP, which is to give new and veteran players good chances on loot, not like DKP systems. If you only reset GP rich get richer. I don't know if it is right.

    Whatever, their guild, their rules.

  10. #10
    So you're not happy with that and you want MMO-C to support your opinion.

    As said in the above post:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pedrolo View Post
    Whatever, their guild, their rules.

  11. #11
    Deleted
    guild master>GUILD MASTER GF>any other raider thats the loot system in my guild

  12. #12
    Dont use EPGP if you wont even use it for HC/normal. EPGP only rewards bad play from the two guilds i was in that used it. It was horrible, be the top performer, doing good, and TImmy who is a clown gets loot. Yeaaa no thanks. But for the items itself, I know the 2 guilds I where in used 10% weekly and 15% weekly. Gave 10 points per hour you where in the raid group. Guilded raided 10 hours a week and items where something like.

    Normal Items:80
    Tiers: 100
    Weapons: 75/150
    Also rewarding people for having time to do 250 dungeons, in EP, yeaaaaa no dont even do that, promotes an unhealthy attitude in the raid. Since some wont see it for a while and others will have it for ages.

    I don't see any positive gain in using EPGP, that Loot council couldn't do better, or heck Personal loot as much as I hate that too
    These day's Im washed, playing VRchat instead.

  13. #13
    Anything but Loot council. LC is the worst. I prefer something like EPGP, in that you knew you were working towards something. The 54point thing is silly, don't do that.
    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bigzoman View Post
    Meant Wetback. That's what the guy from Home Depot called it anyway.
    ==================================
    If you say pls because it is shorter than please,
    I'll say no because it is shorter than yes.
    ==================================

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiZaku View Post
    Anything but Loot council. LC is the worst. I prefer something like EPGP, in that you knew you were working towards something. The 54point thing is silly, don't do that.
    I'm guessing you were in a guild with awful officers/council to say that LC is the worst, when it's literally the best method for gear distribution. Or sarcasm. Not sure if sarcasm?!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Enrro View Post

    - Reward 10k EP “worth of 5 full raid attendance” to ppl with lvl 54 wep by 27th Jan
    seems like typical corupted guild where core will only get stronger (on top of 54 traits they will have priority on 4 sets / trinkets etc ) while rest is used as nothing but cannon fodder to funnel gear into chosen few - any decent player would run away asap into actual good guild using loot council .

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    I'm guessing you were in a guild with awful officers/council to say that LC is the worst, when it's literally the best method for gear distribution. Or sarcasm. Not sure if sarcasm?!
    Multiple guilds with shit LC. Anecdotal story: BC, was usually top damage/dps, i worked my ass off to have the best PVP gear (remember when it WAS very relevant raiding gear) and crafted (wrists from Black Temple, tailoring set), farmed all of the enchants was also fishing and cook, so I had all the buffs etc. I was new to the game, but did what I could as I didn't want to be the one to "let the team down", my 10 man team was one that would full clear Kara in 2 hours while the other 10 mans would clear to Curator in 3. 25 man... only ever got to even roll on 2 items total. Ever. Wasn't even in consideration for BiS items. Those 2 rolls were won by the same person and they were side grades for them.

    That was my first experience with LC. Now, you can say "well, you didn't actually NEED anything, considering your performance" which I would agree with on my 10 man team, we were all pretty much LC "wow, that'd be an awesome piece for X" etc but to not even be considered for anything in 25 was disheartening. Had loose LC in other 25s, but those were quickly switched to a system that was easier to work with/keep track of. Also, NOT server first competitive at all - which to me is where LC would be most beneficial.
    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bigzoman View Post
    Meant Wetback. That's what the guy from Home Depot called it anyway.
    ==================================
    If you say pls because it is shorter than please,
    I'll say no because it is shorter than yes.
    ==================================

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiZaku View Post
    Multiple guilds with shit LC. Anecdotal story: BC, was usually top damage/dps, i worked my ass off to have the best PVP gear (remember when it WAS very relevant raiding gear) and crafted (wrists from Black Temple, tailoring set), farmed all of the enchants was also fishing and cook, so I had all the buffs etc. I was new to the game, but did what I could as I didn't want to be the one to "let the team down", my 10 man team was one that would full clear Kara in 2 hours while the other 10 mans would clear to Curator in 3. 25 man... only ever got to even roll on 2 items total. Ever. Wasn't even in consideration for BiS items. Those 2 rolls were won by the same person and they were side grades for them.

    That was my first experience with LC. Now, you can say "well, you didn't actually NEED anything, considering your performance" which I would agree with on my 10 man team, we were all pretty much LC "wow, that'd be an awesome piece for X" etc but to not even be considered for anything in 25 was disheartening. Had loose LC in other 25s, but those were quickly switched to a system that was easier to work with/keep track of. Also, NOT server first competitive at all - which to me is where LC would be most beneficial.
    I see why you don't like LC, but it's definitely not fair to base an entire system on an awful guild. Most top end guilds use it properly, I would assume, to benefit the entire raid.

    Personally, we use it to give out tier sets so they don't go to waste and to maximise raid benefit, e.g. prio on 2s/4s even if someone who will be getting their 1st or third (or 5th/6th with Legion) piece and they have higher PR, assuming it is of course decent. Same goes again if the tier is awful, some specs don't even benefit whereas some might have a huge increase. We also use it for the likes of trinkets, if we know specifically that something is absurdly OP for x spec and useless for Y, we'd poke that person to pass it over, and since most of us understand that concept, everything is fine.

    As I said prior, we also use EPGP on top of LootCouncil. Our EPGP LootMaster is setup to show us quickly what is happening - if someone has rolled specifically for their 4s or 2s, if it's their Main Spec, Off spec, a minor upgrade, etc.
    This is what people see when an item they can use drops as an example


    And this is what the Council see (give or take, this is a "test" one)


    So, we can see if we're going to be using EPGP, or if we LootCouncil it via prioritising a 4set etc, as we added that option in ourselves.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    So, we can see if we're going to be using EPGP, or if we LootCouncil it via prioritising a 4set etc, as we added that option in ourselves.
    Ok so... say I'm SV hunter and there are no other mail wearers and mail token drops (I know it is by multiple classes, but anyways) and so SVH gets it. The other tier is for DK and you have two of them, one is for 4pc main spec and it's HOT, the other is 3pc and is meh. Both might just be given the token, cuz... only one option and far superior upgrade, but what if it is DK vs warrior and it is 4pc main for both... then what? Does SVH usually just skate by without having to ever "pay" for it, while the two platies have to play EGPG roulette? Or is EGPG always charged no matter what, but the end decision might fall to the LC? That's where I think having multiple systems would put me off.
    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bigzoman View Post
    Meant Wetback. That's what the guy from Home Depot called it anyway.
    ==================================
    If you say pls because it is shorter than please,
    I'll say no because it is shorter than yes.
    ==================================

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiZaku View Post
    Ok so... say I'm SV hunter and there are no other mail wearers and mail token drops (I know it is by multiple classes, but anyways) and so SVH gets it. The other tier is for DK and you have two of them, one is for 4pc main spec and it's HOT, the other is 3pc and is meh. Both might just be given the token, cuz... only one option and far superior upgrade, but what if it is DK vs warrior and it is 4pc main for both... then what? Does SVH usually just skate by without having to ever "pay" for it, while the two platies have to play EGPG roulette? Or is EGPG always charged no matter what, but the end decision might fall to the LC? That's where I think having multiple systems would put me off.
    In our guild we charge EPGP for tier as well, loot is loot after all. Otherwise it'd be unfair for those who can get all their tier fast because it's a decent bonus (or got lucky with coins and were able to get straight to a 2s/4s), whilst still being able to roll on other gear at the same time with higher EPGP

    For the DK vs Warrior scenario (pretending they are the same token? :P) it'd depend:
    • Are they both DPS? Both tanks? etc - Most go with DPS > Tanks=Healers for tier sets, assuming nothing blatantly OP is worth getting of course, e.g. Dragon Soul 4sets. Shit dies quicker, skip mechanics/phases, less damage goes out, less time for mistakes, less healer mana needed, etc etc. It's common practice now.
    • Is there much of a difference between the two 4sets, as in, will one give a 15% gain and the other give a 5% gain
    • Will it change the playstyle dramatically (e.g. HFC Hunter 4set)?


    If there really is no major difference, it just goes to EPGP for us. Myself and the rest of our Council look into what everyone gets and we prioritise the tier that's absurd, such as the MM Hunter (+17%-25% DPS gain) was going to be before it got nerfed. Now they are all pretty close, likely won't end up doing much with them now and just let it all go to EPGP, outside of 2/4s prio.
    Last edited by Soisoisoi; 2017-01-18 at 02:01 PM.

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