What made classic wow better than current?

[tyrs ankle]

Obviously you didn't play Holy Paladin then if you think that was all there was to the spec.

I wish photobucket wasn't a piece of shit site otherwise I'd ressurrect my vanilla screens.
And yeah, there were literally 3 buttons. Cleanse, HL, FoL.
Your strength was your ability to constantly pump out efficient heals.

Also I like how you totally ignored the video.


Made it easier for you. What spells are he casting, I wonder?

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Of course I don't think that, and I've never stated we used every single thing, in fact I've stated several times the exact opposite. However to this day we still don't use everything in relevant content so its not like from a design stand point that is some odd ball thing that only happened back in Vanilla.

Yes probably 95% of all Paladins that were raiding were Holy, but there were a few that did raid as Ret. Had a guy on our server that was pretty good, and yes he healed as well sometimes, but he would get to DPS just as often. People on the server had a lot of respect for the guy, you saw him everywhere with his trusty Hand of Rag. People always want to think raiding was cut and dry and everyone did exactly the same thing all the time. Yes they might have been outliers, yes they may not have been in world first guilds, but in a group of 40 people 1 person generally wasn't going to make or break you.

Ya in a 40 man you could always have 1 or 2 retards doing absolutely nothing. I guess that's why so many of you miss that raid size, as you could be afk white swinging hoping for seal of roulette procs.

[voidillusion]

Love the arrogance of drive-by posters who come and authoritatively declare they're going to give the definite final answer, despite it being a very subjective one contradicted by tons of other answers that they didn't bother to read.

Yeah you have those who drive by to give definite answers, those who drive by to declare the end of the thread, those who drive by to declare the closure of the thread by the mods, yet here we are.

[Armourboy]

I wish photobucket wasn't a piece of shit site otherwise I'd ressurrect my vanilla screens.
And yeah, there were literally 3 buttons. Cleanse, HL, FoL.
Your strength was your ability to constantly pump out efficient heals.

Also I like how you totally ignored the video.


Made it easier for you. What spells are he casting, I wonder?

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Ya in a 40 man you could always have 1 or 2 retards doing absolutely nothing. I guess that's why so many of you miss that raid size, as you could be afk white swinging hoping for seal of roulette procs.

Actually if you pay attention you see him using more than just those 3 spells, you don't see them because they don't have a cast time and wouldn't show up on the cast bar. You see him several times adjust himself to be able judge on the boss for instance.

That UI though, even then I had raid frames and party frames.

[tyrs ankle]

Actually if you pay attention you see him using more than just those 3 spells, you don't see them because they don't have a cast time and wouldn't show up on the cast bar. You see him several times adjust himself to be able judge on the boss for instance.

That UI though, even then I had raid frames and party frames.

He casts 1 blessing/judge combo around 2 mins in but that's it. Even so, I'm amazed at how hard you're trying to push this "paladins did things other than spam fol" thing, because 1-2 casts of an ability that has a 12(can't remember) second debuff with a 10(again, unsure)second cooldown is surely regular/frequent/rotational use and not highly situational

Oh and I did play paladin in vanilla. you did nothing but decurse and spam FoL, pls stop trying to create non existent complexity.

[voidillusion]

Made it easier for you. What spells are he casting, I wonder?

I'm probably being a bit slow, and i admit i don't know paladin healing that well, but apart from FoL, HL, HS and dispell when needed, what the hell do you want him to cast? I'm supposing he's using Divine Favor and Lay on hands when and if needed.

Also, in a 5 man dungeons, in Legion, 12 years later, 6 expansions later what extra spells do paladins use? I imagine there should be plenty! Or maybe there's only a couple, maybe there's only 2 or 3 12 years later, and 1/2 of them are things that are pretty much cast and forget like beacon.

So, my point? Obviously you had less abilitys, obviously you have more now, maybe you should have even more now considering we're 12 years and 6 expansions apart, don't try to oversimply stuff to make a point you're trying to make believable.

If i wanted to go even further, and despite as i said not having played a paladin myself, i'd wager that a decent paladin would have 2 or 3 versions of FoL and HoL ready to use to save mana when needed, and if we take those into account we'd probably conclude that they would press more buttonz than now, but as i said previously, and many others also, the difficulty doesn't come from here, it comes from the tunning that was im some, many cases more demanding than the average contemporary content.

Obviously some classes/specs, specially dps ones, were more on button ponys than the others, even more taking spell resistance and immunity from mobs/bosses taken into account, but this for me just makes it a better game tbh . Why would a mage be able to zerg a fire elemental with fireball? Why would a hunter or rogue be able to poison a mechanical unit? It just makes sense to me, probably doesnt to you, but it makes to me

[tyrs ankle]

I'm probably being a bit slow, and i admit i don't know paladin healing that well, but apart from FoL, HL, HS and dispell when needed, what the hell do you want him to cast? I'm supposing he's using Divine Favor and Lay on hands when and if needed.

Also, in a 5 man dungeons, in Legion, 12 years later, 6 expansions later what extra spells do paladins use? I imagine there should be plenty! Or maybe there's only a couple, maybe there's only 2 or 3 12 years later, and 1/2 of them are things that are pretty much cast and forget like beacon.

So, my point? Obviously you had less abilitys, obviously you have more now, maybe you should have even more now considering we're 12 years and 6 expansions apart, don't try to oversimply stuff to make a point you're trying to make believable.

If i wanted to go even further, and despite as i said not having played a paladin myself, i'd wager that a decent paladin would have 2 or 3 versions of FoL and HoL ready to use to save mana when needed, and if we take those into account we'd probably conclude that they would press more buttonz than now, but as i said previously, and many others also, the difficulty doesn't come from here, it comes from the tunning that was im some, many cases more demanding than the average contemporary content.

Obviously some classes/specs, specially dps ones, were more on button ponys than the others, even more taking spell resistance and immunity from mobs/bosses taken into account, but this for me just makes it a better game tbh . Why would a mage be able to zerg a fire elemental with fireball? Why would a hunter or rogue be able to poison a mechanical unit? It just makes sense to me, probably doesnt to you, but it makes to me

Downranking FoL didn't work because max rank cost like 70 mana. And why would you downrank HL if you could just use FoL instead? Paladins were the only healer that didn't downrank in vanilla.

And the whole elemental resistance is what we call a balance change. Yeah, you wouldve liked to, in a world where dps doesn't matter and you could be an afk faceroll shitter (i.e, vanilla) not be able to attack mobs due to resistances/immunities. But, having entire classes being 100% useless on fights, was never good game design.
If you wanna play the whole fantasy elemental alignment board bull, why couldn't we heal/res undead to instakill them? Pick your fights better, son.

[voidillusion]

If you wanna play the whole fantasy elemental alignment board bull, why couldn't we heal/res undead to instakill them? Pick your fights better, son.

I'm not picking a fight, and i'm not your son, boy.

However, you seem to think ppl that have different tastes and different opinions are beneath you don't you? Very well carry on, you'll do good.

[tyrs ankle]

I'm not picking a fight, and i'm not your son, boy.

However, you seem to think ppl that have different tastes and different opinions are beneath you don't you? Very well carry on, you'll do good.

No, your tastes are inconsistent and your opinions are bad. There's a difference between a different opinion and an outright bad/wrong one.

[voidillusion]

No, your tastes are inconsistent and your opinions are bad. There's a difference between a different opinion and an outright bad/wrong one.

Sure, whatever you say.

[Akka]

Downranking FoL didn't work because max rank cost like 70 mana. And why would you downrank HL if you could just use FoL instead?

Because spellpower, duh.

[tyrs ankle]

Because spellpower, duh.

Max rank FoL was the most efficient HPM spell in the game. Made no sense to downrank.

[Pringled]

Tier 0.5, baron 45.

[Ielenia]

That's highly subjective though. Your feelings and perceptions does not equate to the truth.

True. However, it works both ways. DukeNukemx accused me of having 'no cohesion' to my argumentation, but, like you said, 'feelings and perceptions do not equate to the truth'.

[Sturmbringe]

It's better now.

No, it is not. It was better then.

[Vash The Stampede]

True. However, it works both ways. DukeNukemx accused me of having 'no cohesion' to my argumentation, but, like you said, 'feelings and perceptions do not equate to the truth'.

There are ways to denounce something. You can't argue the Legion vs Vanilla map size, but instead you excuse it cause expansion. Problem here is that Legion costs as much as a new game, not an expansion. There's also the difficulty in leveling which you can just go by numbers. Like what the average mob hits players for vs what players hit back with. Then you can extrapolate that 2-3 mobs on you would mean certain death.

[Ielenia]

There are ways to denounce something. You can't argue the Legion vs Vanilla map size, but instead you excuse it cause expansion.

You have yet to give us a reason why map size matters in any shape or form. Kalimdor is bigger? Yeah, but, once again, it has to house enough quests to get your character through sixty levels. An expansion only needs to get you through 10 (sometimes 5) levels. Saying the vanilla maps are bigger than the expansion maps is such a meaningless, irrelevant argument, it borders on wasting time.

Problem here is that Legion costs as much as a new game, not an expansion.

I don't see a problem here considering that the base game (bundled together with all the previous expansions) costs next to nothing in comparison.

There's also the difficulty in leveling which you can just go by numbers. Like what the average mob hits players for vs what players hit back with. Then you can extrapolate that 2-3 mobs on you would mean certain death.

A challenging leveling experience would be good if WoW was about the leveling experience. Yet it's not. WoW is about the endgame. The 'leveling experience' is just supposed to be just an overly long tutorial to get you acclimated bit by bit with your class, experiencing its strengths and drawbacks.

[Crookids]

Because you never played Vanilla. There are ways to survive two or more mobs in Vanilla without dying. Paladins can judge light and use seal of light to keep themselves alive, while a Mage can Frost Nova and AOE them down slowly. AOE stomp if you're a Tauren, and maybe use an Engineering bomb to stun mobs while you just run away until they drop aggro. While these are things you can do in Legion, there's never the urgency cause most things die in 2-3 hits.

You can't be serious with your baseless assumptions. Besides your fallacious accusation -- what does any of that have to do with the leveling experience being boring? Pulling individual mobs and far less utility is not fun. Period. Truthfully, it's you who sounds like you've never played Vanilla. You mention DPS classes. Do you even remember how god awful it was to level as a healer or tank?

Nevertheless, once again, WoW isn't about the leveling. Even though leveling now might not be as "challenging", but it sure is more balanced (class/spec wise) and fun.

You can't blame them believing the game is finished once they clear LFR. Then to be told to do the same raid again, but it's harder with recolored loot. And then to be told to do it again on Heroic, for more recolored loot. And then finally to be told to do it again on Mythic, for more recolored loot. It's not fun to clear the same raid over and over.

Yes, I can blame them. If you're going to complain the game is easy, you should be expected to actually play the game. Your notion about re-skinned gear is also utterly ridiculous. If you're raiding for transmog or for looks -- then I agree. You're playing the wrong game. But again, if this is the case, don't complain it's too easy.

Your sentiment still doesn't make sense. Mechanics change, difficulty increases and coordination becomes more necessary. Running LFR is for simply seeing the content and continuing the story. You don't have to really follow mechanics and enjoy the learning that goes into mastering an encounter. For most of us, it is fun. To go in each week and try to get better while at the same time getting loot to progress your character, compete among friends and other guilds/players. How is wiping to the same boss for days because you can't gauge how bad other people are all while not getting any drops (even "re-skinned") better? Besides, original Naxx was probably the only truly difficult Vanilla instance. Then when you finally drop a 40 man boss, he drops 2 epics that someone ninja loots. Again, it seems like you're the one who never played Vanilla. Case and point. If you're raiding with a guild and truly playing the game -- you don't need LFR. Your mythic gear from the previous tier will be better unless you're trying to grab an extra tier piece.

You never run out of quests in Vanilla, and whelps is a legitimate mechanic in a boss fight.

Ahahahah, beyond proof that you have never played Vanilla. Every Vanilla player remembers having to grind around level 40 to be eligible for more quests.

Seriously? Like what else besides Mythics?

PVP and yes Mythics. Of course mythics. Which now include high mythic dungeons which are very challenging. Weekly affixes to keep things fresh. Brawler's Guild for some fun with challenging solo mechanics. Competing on parses and logs. Maximizing your class' performance. Mastering your rotation based on studying what you've done wrong and how to improve.

What was challenging in Vanilla? Managing 20 people afk? Yelling at the idiots who keep getting feared into a cheesy whelp mechanic? Spamming trade chat for a group? Are you seriously going to tell me a challenging leveling experience and raids like MC are more challenging than what I just mentioned?

Again, simply a joke that people complain about difficulty yet engage in ZERO difficult content.

I don't want to be rewarded for time, I want to be rewarded for skill.

Then don't play Vanilla. You either can't comprehend what I'm saying which makes you either too biased and/or stubborn or you simply never played Vanilla which makes you intellectually dishonest.

Which one is it?

[Kallisto]

You can't blame them believing the game is finished once they clear LFR. Then to be told to do the same raid again, but it's harder with recolored loot. And then to be told to do it again on Heroic, for more recolored loot. And then finally to be told to do it again on Mythic, for more recolored loot. It's not fun to clear the same raid over and over.

Yes I can and yes I will blame them. They're the kind of people that claims that Civ is done when you finish it on chieften (hint it isn't), or if they beat Street fighter on the easiest level (where the AI barely fights back). In reality no one claims they've done a game when they finish it on super easy baby mode. Yet somehow wow is so different.

[Rampant Rabbit]

The one and only thing vanilla has over current is how interwoven the community was.

No name changes and no server transfers.

While I understand adding these things was needed from a business model perspective, it absolutely destroyed the community of a server and also allowed those who wanted to be douche flutes to proceed with little danger.

People (generally) were careful to safeguard their reputation of their character.

Other than that, WoW is far superior now than then.

The feeling of being in a community really is what made Vanilla so great, whether you liked the people or not. If you moved to a different server, your experience of the game could change completely.

As cool as the content is/was, the game was very poorly balanced, itemization was shit, and there was too much farming required to keep up with everyone.

[Crookids]

Yes I can and yes I will blame them. They're the kind of people that claims that Civ is done when you finish it on chieften (hint it isn't), or if they beat Street fighter on the easiest level (where the AI barely fights back). In reality no one claims they've done a game when they finish it on super easy baby mode. Yet somehow wow is so different.

Don't forget he pigeonholed the content into literally 1% of end-game. How do you fail to mention arena, BG, RBG, mythic+ dungeons.. And then he acts like the point of mythics is for the way gear looks? What the hell? Not to mention that mythic gear usually has additional flair and is easily seen above previous difficulties.

But Vanilla didn't even have any reskins so how the hell is that even a logical response?

Again, it's annoying to argue with people who don't engage in a majority of the content yet complain about it. It's like reviewing a game you have never played.