Legion - Assassination Discussion

[DakonBlackblade]

Except there is virtually no Single target fights in NH and right now Vers/crit - EP/exsanguinate outperforms the AP build even on Single target.


By all means go chat it out with the theorycrafters on discord though

Every fight in NH has a strong single target component, half of them are pretty much pure single target fights, ppl worry too much about the final DPS number when Sin rogues are doing exactly what they were designed for, wich is deal massive damage to the priority target, any raid who does not appreciate the guy who is last in the meter on Skorpyron but actualy hit the boss for more than everyone else on the team do not know anything about raiding. And no EP/exsang does not outperform AP, specially if you have tier, unless every sim is wrong by a nice margin.

[Demorgoth]

Do we know if the 2 piece Assassin (bleed on Mutilate) procs our energy regen? I have the two piece but don't see any energy regen procs in my logs, or how do I turn this on in ElvUI?

[Eazy]

Do we know if the 2 piece Assassin (bleed on Mutilate) procs our energy regen? I have the two piece but don't see any energy regen procs in my logs, or how do I turn this on in ElvUI?

No, unfortunately it's not.

[Deleted]

Just got an 885 Entwined Elemental Foci from my timewalking, it's basically a higher ilvl memento right? not sure if i should use it over my 875 + socket Etheral Urn and 860 Eye of Command with NB chest, sim results seem to be only 1-2k difference with each combination.

[Elyzibeth]

@Zoopercat

I just wanted to throw this out there. I was looking at a sim I did this morning and I noticed 2 things, both revolving around crit. When I look at the buffs section of my dps results it shows my legion's gaze tooltip at 124 crit stacking 10 times. I have nightbanes chest though, so it's actually more like 198. Also, I never saw a buff for the +6 seconds of crit from the shoulders when you come out of stealth. Is that built in, or is the buff missing?

Thanks for everything you all do with AMR, it's awesome and so easy to use!

- - - Updated - - -

also, does AMR check each person's artifact path? I ask this because under slayers precision it lists it as "1" when I actually have enough pts in it to give me 10%

[Souichirou]

Just got an 885 Entwined Elemental Foci from my timewalking, it's basically a higher ilvl memento right? not sure if i should use it over my 875 + socket Etheral Urn and 860 Eye of Command with NB chest, sim results seem to be only 1-2k difference with each combination.

I also got the same trinket as 880 and tested it on a dummy for 10 mins and only noticed about 3-4 procs after multiple runs to compare data, It seems the proc in it self is low maybe it was just back luck on my end but i ran the test 10 times in an attempt to rule out inconsistency due to rng.

[Hodag]

Now that DFA isn't totally shite, could it be viable now for a couple fights? (Spellcaster, Botanist)

Or would that be pretty much just cheesing with no real gain to the success of a pull?

[Smaxy]

Whats verdict on relics with MA nerf? MrRobot is telling me to go with iLVLs (890 serrated blades vs 875 MA and 885 envenom vs 865 MA, keeping my 895 MA). No boots or CoF.

Also, verdict on AP/Mp vs EP/ex? Not only is SimCraft showing me completely different results than AMR related to what's better, but it seems Exsanguinate rotation is no longer available on AMR? Or is it just me?
@Zoopercat

[Deleted]

Is haste also scaling much better with the actual changes for you? crit 11, vers 10.5 , haste 9.7

Using boots/bracer, AP/MP/Vigor, 154% mastery, 28%crit, 9%haste
simc: 715-1 build with the recent hotfixes active,

[Zoopercat]

@Elyzibeth @Smaxy - I'm checking with our theorycrafter / data guy, Swol, about some of your questions. Stay tuned!

[Smaxy]

Thanks @Zoopercat, it's weird Bc I could've sworn you were able to sim both the AP build and the Exsanguinate build by changing the Eotstion drop down option in the simulate window

[Swol]

@Zoopercat

I just wanted to throw this out there. I was looking at a sim I did this morning and I noticed 2 things, both revolving around crit. When I look at the buffs section of my dps results it shows my legion's gaze tooltip at 124 crit stacking 10 times. I have nightbanes chest though, so it's actually more like 198. Also, I never saw a buff for the +6 seconds of crit from the shoulders when you come out of stealth. Is that built in, or is the buff missing?

Thanks for everything you all do with AMR, it's awesome and so easy to use!

- - - Updated - - -

also, does AMR check each person's artifact path? I ask this because under slayers precision it lists it as "1" when I actually have enough pts in it to give me 10%

The tooltips on those buffs are wowdb tooltips. It won't reflect the modified value if you have the chest piece, but we do have the increase modeled in the simulation. Making our own spell tooltips isn't something that we wanted to get into right now. It's hard to verify that it's right, but, here's the formula:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/theory...n&version=live

You can see it gets multiplied by 30% if you have the chest. ItemBudget is a table of numbers from the game with values based on item level. ItemRatingMultiplier is another table with the scaling applied to secondary stats based on item level.

Here's a simulation with the Mantle of the Master Assassin:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...a569911d3261ef

If you expand buffs, you'll see "Master Assassin's Initiative" - That's the buff you get when you pop out of stealth. Note that the live version of the simulator right now has a bug with that item which makes it work during shadow dance - will be fixed in an update today.

The artifact path is loaded with the character. If it's loading the artifact incorrectly, let us know and we can take a look. Armory imports sometimes have problems with the artifact - imports from the addon generally work better.

[Deleted]

Im having some trouble figuring out the right way to handle AoE. What should my rotation/priority be on packs on many small adds? Im always dead last on DMG meters as soon as adds are involved but topping the meters on single target. Is that just the life of an Assassin or am I just shit at AoE? Do I attempt to Rupture as many targets as possible or just focus 1 target and hope for Poison Vial procs?

[Elyzibeth]

@FruitCakeRonin

It's pretty dependent on how much life the adds have. You can actually pull super high numbers if the adds have decent health pools. You want to FOK to build combo points and get ruptures on at least 3-4 as fast as possible. Once you have that, FOK>envenom to fish for poison bombs. if the adds are still up as ruptures are running out, re apply bleeds and repeat.

If the adds have low HP, you're just going to suck on DPS because it's simply not worth it. You might be able to throw out a FOK to build some combo points, but that's about it.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the tip, just ran the timewalking dungeons, and DPS on trash packs werent so bad.

Can anyone tell me how good Entwined Elemental Foci is? Just got one and it would replace a 850 Mastery stick. Cant seem to find any Trinket rankings that are updated for NH for Rogues.

[Deleted]

Every fight in NH has a strong single target component, half of them are pretty much pure single target fights, ppl worry too much about the final DPS number when Sin rogues are doing exactly what they were designed for, wich is deal massive damage to the priority target, any raid who does not appreciate the guy who is last in the meter on Skorpyron but actualy hit the boss for more than everyone else on the team do not know anything about raiding. And no EP/exsang does not outperform AP, specially if you have tier, unless every sim is wrong by a nice margin.

I'm just gonna have to take people who know what they are talking abouts word more then some random forum guy

[DakonBlackblade]

I'm just gonna have to take people who know what they are talking abouts word more then some random forum guy

Those ppl must have invented some super advanced sim no one know about them. They probably might have developed a whole new tear of raid where every bos sis just a hughe pack of trash mobs, and I believe they are also hiding some super bonkers logs and not sharing with anyone of them running exang and doing more damage than AP.

[Isoge]

Those ppl must have invented some super advanced sim no one know about them. They probably might have developed a whole new tear of raid where every bos sis just a hughe pack of trash mobs, and I believe they are also hiding some super bonkers logs and not sharing with anyone of them running exang and doing more damage than AP.

Exa is quite strong and depending on who is playing it, it can kick AP ass any day. You must have gotten things mixed up on raids, which means you literally know nothing about raiding. MOST of the fights that have aoe elements (skorpyron, high botanist, tichon etc.) have adds that must be brought down. Having people suck at aoe and only be good for tunneling the boss is useless dps, especially when you have tons of high priority targets that must be brought down. Then the final number does matter because you were god damn last because all you could do with your useless ass is tunnel the boss while all others had to do the work that kept you from wiping, take down adds as soon as possible. Nobody appreciates the guy that is last on skorpyron when he has zero damage on adds that has to be taken down. And that guy would be kicked from my raiding team if he ever said something as stupid as you said. That is basically the same as "let someone else do, I am here to tunnel the boss". You don't know anything about raiding.

[DakonBlackblade]

Exa is quite strong and depending on who is playing it, it can kick AP ass any day. You must have gotten things mixed up on raids, which means you literally know nothing about raiding. MOST of the fights that have aoe elements (skorpyron, high botanist, tichon etc.) have adds that must be brought down. Having people suck at aoe and only be good for tunneling the boss is useless dps, especially when you have tons of high priority targets that must be brought down. Then the final number does matter because you were god damn last because all you could do with your useless ass is tunnel the boss while all others had to do the work that kept you from wiping, take down adds as soon as possible. Nobody appreciates the guy that is last on skorpyron when he has zero damage on adds that has to be taken down. And that guy would be kicked from my raiding team if he ever said something as stupid as you said. That is basically the same as "let someone else do, I am here to tunnel the boss". You don't know anything about raiding.

Useless DPS is having inefficient target switching reducing boss DPS when you could be handling adds with classes that don't waste DPS doing so and reducing overall fight duration since you have a couple of players dedicated to boss killing. Theres a reason why you generally stick 2-3 dudes to the boss 24/7 in pretty much every fight or why you don't have melee run around to hit every add that spawn 100 of miles away form boss, only situations you switch everybody to adds is if theres some mechanic involved killing you (like an aoe aura, tanks dying, healers failing to keep up, or whatever) because you can't kill them fast enough. You can have every DPS switching to bloods on Thicondrius every time they spawn, including melee, wich would mean wasted DPS on boss, wasted DPS traveling + ramp up timers to recover DPS on boss, or you could let ranged and multi doters take care of them and actually have the fight last way less because the boss itself will die faster meaning you have to deal with mechanics less times. Second scenario will mean some members of your team will deal lower numbers while some others will deal higher compared ot scenario 1, but the dudes dealing lower damage were paramount in killing the boss the easiest possible way cause they are actually there to make sure the boss don't last for too long cause the team is focusing adds too much. A raid team is 20 dudes, you don't need every member doing every thing, you need to delegate tasks and do it efficiently.

Its not about each persons DPS its about overall DPS, ppl who do inefficient AoE just hog DPS from ppl who do it efficiently cause the "avaliable DPS" is finite since when adds die there is nothing more to DPS, if the trade off for your sin rogue to do more AoE was your DH loosing AoE DPS while the rogue himself also lost single target DPS you are actually doing less raid DPS than before. You could have had both your sin rogue and your DH dealing maximum potential DPS by keeping the rogue single target.

And log data (and sims) are pretty clear AP > exang and when you need the aoe Alacricity > then both, so whats your guys point here again ?

[Deleted]

Seems the most common relic google sheet has been updated:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1982425597

With boots it seems the first and second MA relic is very strong, the third one is valued a little higher then GW. But its possible , atleast, to line up the second kingsbane a bit with vendetta.

What do you think? Is the risk too big to take the relics because of the problem with the fight lenght? Atleast a 900 GW is worth switching over an 885 MA , thats not bad at all.