The Terrifying Stakes Of Repealing Obamacare Without A Clear Replacement

[Tinykong]

Access is meaningless if you can't afford it, so your statement doesn't amount to much. The healthcare industry doesn't lend itself to free market principles that govern other industries. Have any other tiresome talking points you want to throw out there?

I believe healthcare is a basic human right, so I advocate for them having a "luxury car" as you will. You don't.

"This hospital is too expensive, let's drive to the one down the street and see if it's any cheaper to ge..."

*flat lines*

[hakujinbakasama]

Exactly thats the problem. You need a modern constitution. One that wont give guns to everyone and would rather talk about human rights more detailed. Which includes the right of physical integrity of every human being.

There is a bit of irony in this.

It doesn't "give" anyone a gun. And it certainly doesn't provide an equal measure of what kind of "gun" everyone gets. With a nice slice of hilarity, I'm limited to access to guns by the same principles which limit people from healthcare.... my financial choices.

- - - Updated - - -

"This hospital is too expensive, let's drive to the one down the street and see if it's any cheaper to ge..."

*flat lines*

This is hyperbolic. Emergency care is open to all. Additionally, lost of people refuse to pay ER bills and the hospitals use them as tax write-offs.

[Tehshocka]

There is a bit of irony in this.

It doesn't "give" anyone a gun. And it certainly doesn't provide an equal measure of what kind of "gun" everyone gets. With a nice slice of hilarity, I'm limited to access to guns by the same principles which limit people from healthcare.... my financial choices.

- - - Updated - - -



This is hyperbolic. Emergency care is open to all. Additionally, lost of people refuse to pay ER bills and the hospitals use them as tax write-offs.

Clearly you understand even a small slice of what im trying to say

[Tinykong]

This is hyperbolic. Emergency care is open to all. Additionally, lost of people refuse to pay ER bills and the hospitals use them as tax write-offs.

You don't have a choice of what facility you are taken to in an emergency. Even with insurance, you can wind up seeing an out of network doctor and suffer bankruptcy inducing levels of debt.

[Tehshocka]

You don't have a choice of what facility you are taken to in an emergency. Even with insurance, you can wind up seeing an out of network doctor and suffer bankruptcy inducing levels of debt.

I could of sworn I have a flat fee on my plan when it comes the ER, oh wait yep there it is right on my card $65 bucks.

[NYC17]

But let's start from the top.

I believe that access to healthcare is a legal right. Now if the argument is that quality of healthcare is not equal due to cost prevention then you're right. But That's true for a lot of services. You're not being denied because of sex, race, or ethnicity, instead from Economics and Finance. And in that area we are arguably equal.

Why should your economic or financial classification dictate your level of care, which is a basic human right? Declaring that you believe access to care, but it depends on your income or personal wealth, is meaningless.

[hakujinbakasama]

You don't have a choice of what facility you are taken to in an emergency. Even with insurance, you can wind up seeing an out of network doctor and suffer bankruptcy inducing levels of debt.

Yeah I don't know wtf you're talking about. I've never seen something similar to whatever you're getting at in this.

As Tehshocka points out, coverage provide a co-pay for ER visits and do not incur "network" issues as it falls into Emergency Services.

- - - Updated - - -

Why should your economic or financial classification dictate your level of care, which is a basic human right? Declaring that you believe access to care, but it depends on your income or personal wealth, is meaningless.

Because we live in a free society? I know this is really fucking hard to understand but I'll put it this way.

Can I go to Harvard because education is a free right?

[NYC17]

Clearly you understand even a small slice of what im trying to say

Everyone understands what you're trying to say. It just happens to be grounded in such ignorance, there is push back.

[Tehshocka]

Why should your economic or financial classification dictate your level of care, which is a basic human right? Declaring that you believe access to care, but it depends on your income or personal wealth, is meaningless.

So what is it? Wanting care for all or wanting cutting edge level care. You cant have both. The world doesn't work that way. No matter how much you hate it.

[hakujinbakasama]

Uh I'm pretty confident he/she was pointing out that I DID understand what they were getting at and was clear. The problem is that people do not like counter-examples which show how stupid their line of thinking is and instead try to do everything they can to scream it away.

[NYC17]

Yeah I don't know wtf you're talking about. I've never seen something similar to whatever you're getting at in this.

As Tehshocka points out, coverage provide a co-pay for ER visits and do not incur "network" issues as it falls into Emergency Services.

- - - Updated - - -



Because we live in a free society? I know this is really fucking hard to understand but I'll put it this way.

Can I go to Harvard because education is a free right?

Yes, it really is hard to understand wan opinion founded in apparent ignorance of the subject at hand.

The fact you live in a free society should be the catalyst that dictates you have a right to the same healthcare as someone else living in that free society. You seem to believe it should be the opposite. That seems to be what is "really fucking hard" to understand...for you.

[Tehshocka]

Yes, it really is hard to understand wan opinion founded in apparent ignorance of the subject at hand.

The fact you live in a free society should be the catalyst that dictates you have a right to the same healthcare as someone else living in that free society. You seem to believe it should be the opposite. That seems to be what is "really fucking hard" to understand...for you.

So you want to live in some Utopian society where everyone is equal in all aspects of life. How boring.

[NYC17]

So what is it? Wanting care for all or wanting cutting edge level care. You cant have both. The world doesn't work that way. No matter how much you hate it.

Why can't we have both? Be specific, some abstract speech alluding to opportunity costs doesn't count.

[Tinykong]

I could of sworn I have a flat fee on my plan when it comes the ER, oh wait yep there it is right on my card $65 bucks.

Did we suddenly become a nation with universal insurance? Nope, we didn't.

My wife had an out of network doctor during the delivery of our child who prescribed a medical device, and the hospital balanced billed us for $9,000+ for an out of network consultation and prescribed device. At the time nothing seemed out of the ordinary, just another doctor coming in and doing something. Too bad the hospital employs doctors that are not part of the same insurance network as the hospital system, and you have absolutely no way of knowing until after services are rendered. It required an intervention from the Maryland's AG office to get them to reverse it, since it's against the law in certain situations to be balanced billed in my state.

If you live in a state where balance billing is legal, you could wind up easily receiving a $10k bill for out of network emergency room services. It has happened to people.

[telygroar]

Healthcare didn't exist in the 1700's , 1800's ....

Yeah, and the average lifespan was 40 years old.

https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy/

[hakujinbakasama]

Yes, it really is hard to understand wan opinion founded in apparent ignorance of the subject at hand.

The fact you live in a free society should be the catalyst that dictates you have a right to the same healthcare as someone else living in that free society. You seem to believe it should be the opposite. That seems to be what is "really fucking hard" to understand...for you.

NO I have the "right" of access. Which I do. I have the same access to Harvard or Yale as anyone else. I have the same access to the best heart surgeon in the world as anyone else. Whether or not I can fucking pay for it is a different story.

That's the stupidity of this argument. The same people who think that the ACA is so good aren't demanding that Harvard, Yale, Stanford, UCLA, or anywhere else start allowing anyone go for free because Education is a right. That's called a counter example.

[NYC17]

So you want to live in some Utopian society where everyone is equal in all aspects of life. How boring.

I don't care how boring you find it, thats not a counterargument to a Utopian society. However you believing that healthcare is akin to a utopian society is pretttyyyyyy preetttttyyyy preeettttyyyyyyy pretty...weird.

[hakujinbakasama]

Did we suddenly become a nation with universal insurance? Nope, we didn't.

My wife had an out of network doctor during the delivery of our child who prescribed a medical device, and the hospital balanced billed us for $9,000+ for an out of network consultation and prescribed device. At the time nothing seemed out of the ordinary, just another doctor coming in and doing something. Too bad the hospital employs doctors that are not part of the same insurance network as the hospital system, and you have absolutely no way of knowing until after services are rendered. It required an intervention from the Maryland's AG office to get them to reverse it, since it's against the law in certain situations to be balanced billed in my state.

If you live in a state where balance billing is legal, you could wind up easily receiving a $10k bill for out of network emergency room services. It has happened to people.

So what you're saying is that prior proper planning prevents piss poor performance?

[NYC17]

NO I have the "right" of access. Which I do. I have the same access to Harvard or Yale as anyone else. I have the same access to the best heart surgeon in the world as anyone else. Whether or not I can fucking pay for it is a different story.

That's the stupidity of this argument. The same people who think that the ACA is so good aren't demanding that Harvard, Yale, Stanford, UCLA, or anywhere else start allowing anyone go for free because Education is a right. That's called a counter example.

People aren't demanding it because it's a stupid argument conjured up by people who don't understand the basic difference between healthcare and access to schools, cars, and whatever other incomparable red herring you want to throw out there.

So you creating a rather stupid argument and using the fact no one else is making that argument is pretty funny in it's obliviousness.

[hakujinbakasama]

People aren't demanding it because it's a stupid argument conjured up by people who don't understand the basic difference between healthcare and access to schools, cars, and whatever other incomparable red herring you want to throw out there.

So you creating a rather stupid argument and using the fact no one else is making that argument is pretty funny in it's obliviousness.

It's not a red herring. The fact that you don't get the difference is comical.

Since I cannot draw it out currently I'll do it this way.

Healthcare is a right -----> Rights should be absent of costs ------> I can have the best healthcare for the same price as the worst provider.
Education is a right ------> Rights should be absent of costs ------> I should be allowed into Harvard for the same cost as the worst school.
Freedom of travel is a right -----> Rights should be absent of costs ------> I should be able to fly anywhere in the world for the same price as a bus ticket.