What's the point of flying half a year away from now?

[Thimagryn]

Flying makes you consume content at an accelerated rate. Whether it's world quests or not, anything with flying involved because tedious at best very quickly.

I don't see the problem with accelerating the rate of completing repeated content. What reason is there for world quest grind to remain paced? The content itself is tedious.

[Dhrizzle]

While I agree completely with what you say, for me flying is also a form of content. Most of the screenshots in my gamefolder are from sunsets/sunrises and amazing views from above.
There were expansions with tons to do, MoP was in that regard, for me, an amazing expansion, I did rarefarming routes (maaany rarefarming routes), herbfarming routes, soil farming for tillers, the dinosaur riding guys farming routes (don't remember their name), and ofc flying to the questhubs with some guildies.
Plenty of content. And flying just made it more efficient.
The difference with WoD and Legion is so big. I have played for almost 10 years, and never have I been bored, but in both WoD and Legion I have been bored, altough for different reasons.
WoD just didn't have much to do, flying or no flying would not have made a difference. I quit over the 'no flying', but I probably would have quit some time later anyway, due to it being such a boring expansion.
For Legion however, I felt like there was plenty to do, even if it was just class or artifact stuff, altough it was getting repetitive, especially when playing alts as well. Until one thing bothered me more than stuff being repetitive, it was doing repetitive stuff on annoying terrain, a mountain between me and my objective, or a cliff, or many mobs, or stupid roots where any horse or car could drive over, but not in WoW horses can't jump over angle-high roots. I unsubbed again over no flight a couple months ago. I was excited for them to have a 'flight-plan' for Legion, I did the first part, hoping the next patch would unlock flying, and since it didn't I quit.
Probably more because I hope flying will make the game excited again, or will 'add content', or maybe something else. But the conclusion for me is the same, if the game had plenty of fun things to do, I shouldn't be bothered with riding there in stead of flying there.

With the exception of Vanilla (which I started about a year after launch) none of the expansions have kept me subbed until the end. As much as I enjoy WoW there's only so many times I want to repeat the same things and other games eventually grab my attention. The one that let me go the quickest was MoP because I was only playing casually (no formal raiding) and the world content and 5-mans completely failed to grip me. Even with WoD having little-to-no point in doing the repeated content I found that the world content was far more interesting than MoP, mostly because it was balanced around ground play and felt more like a continuation of the leveling experience rather than a selection of simple chores as flying dailies tend to be.

There's probably merit in both of your arguments. But it's actually irrelevant because even if we assume that flying results in price drops in the economy, that is not really a bad thing.

Maybe not if you're a buyer, but I've quite liked making a decent amount of gold from my casual gathering.

it's funny how flying is a "cheat code", but the flight whistle isn't, even though the latter is far more reminiscent of the old game genie "walk through walls" command.

Have you even played Legion? The flight whistle works more like a hearthstone than actual flight, it teleports you to a fixed point (in this case the closest unlocked flightmaster) and has a cooldown. It doesn't allow you to choose which bits of terrain you ignore or where exactly you end up the way that flight (and no-clip cheats) do.

No, flying doesn't make you consume content at an accelerated rate. Part of the problem is that WoW's open world content is so heavily burdened with unnecessary filler that I can see why you might think that. But what flying does is simply get you past all that useless "content" to the actual objectives. That's not consuming at a faster rate, that's cutting out the bullshit. Does that make sense?

Not even close to making sense. "The content" is the things you do in the game, flying lets you bypass some of the things you do in the game, therefore you complete or consume "the content" at an accelerated rate if you have flying.

Besides which, flying doesn't actually click objectives for you. It doesn't kill monsters for you. You still have to land and do that yourself. If Blizzard doesn't want people to blaze through their content so fast, maybe they should stop designing such over-simplified quests(looking at you squirrel-bashing quest). How much of wow's open world is "kill X" or "collect x" or "click x", I wonder?

Correct, flying doesn't kill mobs or click objectives. It does however allow the player to bypass any obstacles that get in the way of those mobs and objectives.

Maybe instead of trying to point the finger at Flight as the great ruination of questing, you should step back and take a hard look at the actual quests themselves.

I don't see the problem with accelerating the rate of completing repeated content. What reason is there for world quest grind to remain paced? The content itself is tedious.

Your problem seems to be more with the MMO genre than with the lack of flying. If you'd rather have a "once and done" game rather than one where you have to repeat the content in order to grind rewards a single-player game might be more suitable.

[Lane]

The world is already dead. People either sit in their class hall waiting to dungeon and raid or teleporting from FP to FP. I recently levelled Val'sharah and probably saw 4 people max. The only place you see people is at WQs and flying won't remove them

This. It's already rare I see other players unless there are WQs in the area. Alts at this point is almost like a single player experience. Even during WQs, as soon as it's completed most use the whistle. Once people have FPs discovered it's not like they use the roads anymore. I've always found this to be such a strange argument in favor of no flying.

[tyrs ankle]

This. It's already rare I see other players unless there are WQs in the area. Alts at this point is almost like a single player experience. Even during WQs, as soon as it's completed most use the whistle. Once people have FPs discovered it's not like they use the roads anymore. I've always found this to be such a strange argument in favor of no flying.

ya cus you always ran into people randomly dicking around in the middle of the tanaris desert with no mobs or objectives nearby, back in vanilla. Right?

[SirCowdog]

Not even close to making sense. "The content" is the things you do in the game, flying lets you bypass some of the things you do in the game, therefore you complete or consume "the content" at an accelerated rate if you have flying.

We've been over this, Dhrizzle. You're assuming that all content even deserves to be completed, or that all content needs to apply to all players. That's patently false. And I even conceded that Flying lets you skip the worthless filler. The point here is that some people seem to think that just because they like consuming filler that EVERYONE should have to do so as well. And it ignores the FACT that there are plenty of other ways to skip that filler.

The magical "journey" of working your way around the terrain from the ground has some merit the first time through, maybe. I don't personally agree that this is the case for ALL of Legion, but there are some parts that work out well from the ground(when you go to hell, for example). But attempting to claim that ALL of Legion's open world content is improved by being grounded is stretching the limits of believability. Similarly, to claim that ALL of Legion's open world content would be ruined by flying is also not reasonable, especially after having been forced to experience it from the ground the first time through anyway.

Telling players that their experience from the ground would be ruined when they're already not enjoying themselves is, quite frankly, arrogant and stupid. Telling players that their experience from the ground would be ruined when they've already done it and STILL said they would prefer to fly? That's just sticking your head in the sand and refusing to admit the truth.

[Dormie]

It's so blizzard can say they relented and put flying back in, duh. So long as it happens 1 minute before legion ends the white knights will come swarming outtathe woodwork in their defence

It's more of a take it or leave it situation. You're getting flying, stop crying.

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I don't see the problem with accelerating the rate of completing repeated content. What reason is there for world quest grind to remain paced? The content itself is tedious.

It's been repeated content since week 1. That means nothing. This is a game based around repeating content.

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This. It's already rare I see other players unless there are WQs in the area. Alts at this point is almost like a single player experience. Even during WQs, as soon as it's completed most use the whistle. Once people have FPs discovered it's not like they use the roads anymore. I've always found this to be such a strange argument in favor of no flying.

If you think the world is dead you're either on a dead server or aren't actually out in the world.

[Thimagryn]

Your problem seems to be more with the MMO genre than with the lack of flying. If you'd rather have a "once and done" game rather than one where you have to repeat the content in order to grind rewards a single-player game might be more suitable.

What?

So you think flight makes world quests more tedious? Reality is flight is just a tool for transportation, nothing more. You have access to the Goblin Glider. Using it doesn't make a quest more tedious to do, would you not agree? If the complaint is that content becomes more tedious because of flight, then I argue it's because the content was already tedious to begin with and has nothing to do with flight. I don't see people saying goblin gliders make content more tedious, do you?

We had flying in WoW in previous expansions. It was fine. It was fun. I don't see how this is suddenly a problem with the MMO genre when it is working as intended. The content won't become more of a chore than it already is once 7.2 hits.


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IIt's been repeated content since week 1. That means nothing. This is a game based around repeating content.

That was my point. Repeated content is repeated content. The pace it's consumed at is up to the individual player. Content pacing is not a valid argument against flight.

[Wramp]

I for one love Legion and think the game is awesome, so far loved it in all of its iterations except for WoD. But there is no saying who is leaving, how many, and for what reason. Though i do hope you can find the passion in it sometime in the future.

This ^^ i haven't had this much fun in WoW in 5+ yrs, and my entire guild is active, happy and progressing...im sorry others are having a crappy time, but I, for one, am thoroughly pleased.

[Darkeon]

Stretchy-Stretchy all the content available~

[Dhrizzle]

We've been over this, Dhrizzle. You're assuming that all content even deserves to be completed, or that all content needs to apply to all players. That's patently false. And I even conceded that Flying lets you skip the worthless filler. The point here is that some people seem to think that just because they like consuming filler that EVERYONE should have to do so as well. And it ignores the FACT that there are plenty of other ways to skip that filler.

Yes, and we've been over the fact that just because you consider something to be "worthless filler" doesn't mean everyone, or more importantly Blizzard and their target audience, do. Maybe some people consider the journey across the land to be the more important/interesting part of the game and the bit where you tab-target and spam your rotation is the "worthless filler," so maybe they should be given the rewards just for getting to the quest location? Maybe someone is a hardcore raider/PvPer and considers any world content to be "worthless filler," so maybe they should be given the quest rewards just for logging in?

The magical "journey" of working your way around the terrain from the ground has some merit the first time through, maybe. I don't personally agree that this is the case for ALL of Legion, but there are some parts that work out well from the ground(when you go to hell, for example). But attempting to claim that ALL of Legion's open world content is improved by being grounded is stretching the limits of believability. Similarly, to claim that ALL of Legion's open world content would be ruined by flying is also not reasonable, especially after having been forced to experience it from the ground the first time through anyway.

Given that Blizz have a decision of "flying" or "no flying," and that I prefer the game with "no flying" I don't see why it is unreasonable to say that the content is improved by having no flying.

Telling players that their experience from the ground would be ruined when they're already not enjoying themselves is, quite frankly, arrogant and stupid. Telling players that their experience from the ground would be ruined when they've already done it and STILL said they would prefer to fly? That's just sticking your head in the sand and refusing to admit the truth.

You have to understand that different players like different things. Just because you personally prefer the game with flight doesn't mean that everyone does, and it seems that Blizz have come to the decision that, for most people, the game is better with flight. Now it's a shame that the game is, currently, being developed in a way that you don't enjoy but you're not the only person who has to accept that they can't have it their own way all the time. There's lots of ways the game has changed that, as far as I'm concerned, have made it less enjoyable, but once Blizzard have made a change, listened to feedback, explained their reasons and then stuck with the changes there's little point in continuing to push the same complaints for what, nearly 3 years now?

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What?

So you think flight makes world quests more tedious? Reality is flight is just a tool for transportation, nothing more.

You seem to be underestimating how powerful transportation can be in this game when it allows you to skip the obstacles like terrain and enemy monsters.

You have access to the Goblin Glider. Using it doesn't make a quest more tedious to do, would you not agree? If the complaint is that content becomes more tedious because of flight, then I argue it's because the content was already tedious to begin with and has nothing to do with flight. I don't see people saying goblin gliders make content more tedious, do you?

The goblin glider requires you to find a vantage point, it has limits in its use due to having fixed forward and down velocities and it has a cooldown. In many ways using the glider can be a more awkward experience than simply riding a mount to the objective (unless you're one of those with terminal difficulties dealing with tree roots and navigating terrain.) It simply doesn't compare to an item that allows you to take off and land anywhere in the outside world whenever you want.

We had flying in WoW in previous expansions. It was fine. It was fun. I don't see how this is suddenly a problem with the MMO genre when it is working as intended. The content won't become more of a chore than it already is once 7.2 hits.

As I've mentioned numerous times, yes flight was "fine" when world content was more of an afterthought. I liked having something mindless to do when not raiding or doing heroics (those times when heroics were a reasonably involving challenge.) With MoP though the world content became a more important part of progressions and, for me as a casual player at the time, having progression be a choice between mind-numbing world quests or snooze-fest heroic dungeons completely put me off the expansion. WoD might have lacked meaningful rewards or any material incentive to keep playing but I found the content to be far more interesting and stayed subbed much longer than I did to MoP.

[Thimagryn]

You seem to be underestimating how powerful transportation can be in this game when it allows you to skip the obstacles like terrain and enemy monsters.

You mean like flight paths, goblin gliders and all the other abilities we already have in game that do that?

Yes, flight is an issue. But so is having all that I mentioned above too. All of those features are tools of convenience that allow people who use them to have an advantage over those who chose not to. But if we were to discuss the merits of having flight paths over not having them at all, you can see the benefit. I see having player-controlled flight as being more beneficial than its negative affects. Pathfinder already forces players to complete all immersive content at least once (and multiple times for rep grind) to the point where there's literally no reason not to have flight.

I ask you, what content is there left in the game that isn't repeated content that will be affected by having flight right now?

[Wingspan]

I am pretty neutral as to when Flight finally appears, but I won't re-sub until it does.

I was never a big fan of Blizz removing Flight in current content (hated it, actually) but I must say that by doing so, it finally inspired me to play other games for the first time ever. The end result is that I dropped an eight year sub before WoD (due solely to the Flight situation) and started actually giving other games a try... Which really paid off for me.

I look forward to returning to WoW whenever Flight comes back... But since I no longer feel as invested in my characters (since I now have other characters in other games) it is REALLY easy to just pick up and leave as soon as they remove Flight again.

The whole lockout on flight thing is now just a convenient trigger for me to play other games. I recommend it!

[tyrs ankle]

I am pretty neutral as to when Flight finally appears, but I won't re-sub until it does.

I was never a big fan of Blizz removing Flight in current content (hated it, actually) but I must say that by doing so, it finally inspired me to play other games for the first time ever. The end result is that I dropped an eight year sub before WoD (due solely to the Flight situation) and started actually giving other games a try... Which really paid off for me.

I look forward to returning to WoW whenever Flight comes back... But since I no longer feel as invested in my characters (since I now have other characters in other games) it is REALLY easy to just pick up and leave as soon as they remove Flight again.

plz don't come back tho

[Wingspan]

plz don't come back tho

Heh heh... And this would be another pretty good example of why the Flight changes ended up good for me. There are WAY fewer people like this in most of the other games I experimented with and then eventually settled in to.

[tyrs ankle]

Heh heh... And this would be another pretty good example of why the Flight changes ended up good for me. There are WAY fewer people like this in most of the other games I experimented with and then eventually settled in to.

Cool, now maybe you'll stop lurking like a junkie.

[Wingspan]

Cool, now maybe you'll stop lurking like a junkie.

It's ironic really... You would apparently prefer me to keep away from WoW (and now maybe these forums) while I prefer that you stay just where you are.

[kaintk]

well, i stopped farming crafting thing and reroll alt, because its too tedious to 'just walk' i just want to be able to fly to make thing less tedious, more fun to do, and flying is what give me fun to do them, i have enough of all this bullshit gated behind months of awaiting for the flying, if you dont ant to fly, just walk and stop making us who love flying not able to have it from the start like it should be

[Celadir]

Personally, I thought the WotLK system was a great "meet in the middle" design choice. No flying until you ding max level then it's purchasable for "X" amount of gold. The option is there if you want to use it and if not...then just mount a land mount. It really should just be that simple.

[Dhrizzle]

You mean like flight paths, goblin gliders and all the other abilities we already have in game that do that?

Yes, flight is an issue. But so is having all that I mentioned above too. All of those features are tools of convenience that allow people who use them to have an advantage over those who chose not to. But if we were to discuss the merits of having flight paths over not having them at all, you can see the benefit. I see having player-controlled flight as being more beneficial than its negative affects. Pathfinder already forces players to complete all immersive content at least once (and multiple times for rep grind) to the point where there's literally no reason not to have flight.

Again, you don't seem to realise that those abilities are different to how flight works. Flight paths only take you between fixed points on the map, they do not allow you to take off from any point and set down wherever you like. Goblin Gliders have a cooldown with fixed forward and downward velocities, you can not just take off and land wherever you want whenever you want. Do they offer some of the convenience people want from flight? Sure. Do they offer all the convenience people want from flight? No, and if they did there wouldn't be threads like this from people who want to earn their rewards quicker and easier.

I ask you, what content is there left in the game that isn't repeated content that will be affected by having flight right now?

Probably nothing, but as end-game is generally built around the idea of repeatable content, if it wasn't important you wouldn't be asking for flight to make it easier to complete.

[Thimagryn]

Again, you don't seem to realise that those abilities are different to how flight works.

Because it doesn't matter how they're different. If your base argument is that utensils help you eat faster and thus shouldn't be allowed, it doesn't matter if we're talking chopsticks or forks and knives and how they're used. Convenience is convenience, and if the complaint is 'it makes content too easy' then the same can be said about other like features. In the end, there is no difference because we are getting flight regardless, so it's clear that none of those differences matter in the end anyways.

Probably nothing, but as end-game is generally built around the idea of repeatable content, if it wasn't important you wouldn't be asking for FLIGHT TO make it easier to complete.

Except that's exactly what I'm pointing out the futility of. Repeatable content isn't hard, never was and never will be. It's a time sink through and through. We shouldn't kid ourselves that having mobs and terrain in our way makes a repeated grind any less of a grind. Flight doesn't change the fact that it's still a gated time sink.

I want flight because I have flying mounts that I want to use. Mounts I've earned through hard work and would like to use to see the new content from a different perspective. The added bonus is as a druid, I also would have flight aid me in doing menial tasks like herb farming or rare spawn hunting. Using it to do repeated content is by far the least of my reasons, considering you need to DO repeated content to unlock Flight in the first place!