+35 sucks!

[phogel]

I seem to remember an expansion ago that people complained there was nothing to do.

Man, it's impossible to please people.

Funny cuz I see mod's getting on peoples shit for useless posts like this all the time. Thanks for contributing nothing to this post and showing newcomers to the site how great a Super Mod is.

[Akka]

The alternative is even worse though: people who fall behind just give up (and many probably unsub). Raid progression in TBC failed spectacularly at keeping most players engaged.

All this is your claim, though, which has only your fanatical single-mindedness about it as support.

You might rant endlessly about how the most successful expansion in WoW history failed spectacularly at engaging players, don't count on me to give it much credit.

[Darsithis]

Yeah, it really is impossible to think beyond your limited mental framework. There is a huge range of topics between "nothing<->endless grinding" and there's an incredible range of topics when we're talking about "what" exactly players enjoy doing, and which content is considered fulfilling. It's safe to say that running hundreds upon hundreds of sub 20 minute repetitions of the same scripted content for months in a row isn't meaningful or fulfilling at all.
Mythic+ is the most successful version of a virtual Skinner box that has been implemented in this game.

But that takes some mental effort and is not as easy as just trolling. I'd expect a lot better from a Super Moderator. Regular visitors on these boards have been infracted for a lot less, while adding a much more meaningful contribution to the discussion.

No one has been infracted for the post I made.

If you read my other posts, you'd see where I clarified it: it's only a grind if you make it one. Unlike WoD, where there was only one gearing path (raids), you have raids, mythic dungeons, mythic+ dungeons, crafted gear, world bosses, and world quests, all of which reward AP frequently. You don't even have to grind it! People complaining about HAVING to grind it are mistaking "WANT RIGHT NOW" for "NEED".

[Deleted]

I seem to remember an expansion ago that people complained there was nothing to do.

Man, it's impossible to please people.

Pendulum swings from one exteme to another are just as bad as staying in that one extreme.

Legion is an endurance. And a strain on your free time & real life. I quit, my account is frozen since 28.11.2016. Fuck this game man. I'm not 13 year old schoolboy anymore.

I don't want WOD level of #nocontent. I just want to have the raiding formula be the same like it was in previous expansions. Aka intensive gameplay at the start, but once geared and on mythic progression, you just focus on raiding on your main, while in your free time you can try some alts, other specs/classes etc. In Legion this isn't the case, main character absorbs almost all your game time, even 3 months into raiding, long after initial gearing is done.

Launch-level intensity of main char gameplay isn't sustainable over these periods of time. We need a cooling off period which isn't there in Legion. Patches are rapid and bring new layers of stupid grinds. Screw this.

[Darsithis]

I don't want WOD level of #nocontent. I just want to have the raiding formula be the same like it was in previous expansions. Aka intensive gameplay at the start, but once geared and on mythic progression, you just focus on raiding on your main, while in your free time you can try some alts, other specs/classes etc. In Legion this isn't the case, main character absorbs almost all your game time, even 3 months into raiding, long after initial gearing is done.

Only if you make it do that.

Outside of raiding with my guild 3 nights a week I rarely touch my main. He hasn't completed an emissary cache in a long time. I have 5 110's, and am having fun with those.

[tikcol]

This isn't a joke anymore. This expansion has been forcing people into a vast array of situations, some of them being extremely dull.

[Eleccybubb]

This isn't a joke anymore. This expansion has been forcing people into a vast array of situations, some of them being extremely dull.

Such as? I haven't felt forced into anything while playing Legion and my Resto Shaman has it's artifact at 34.

[Saroc]

This isn't a joke anymore. This expansion has been forcing people into a vast array of situations, some of them being extremely dull.

Your guild, or your mind, is not the expansion, though.
Only thing i felt forced to do was to get exalted with the Nightfallen, so that i could conitune the story.

[Darsithis]

This isn't a joke anymore. This expansion has been forcing people into a vast array of situations, some of them being extremely dull.

No one is forced to do anything. You don't even have to play. You don't have to do world quests, you don't have to farm OR and AP. You don't have to raid, or do mythics. You could just RP. PvP. Pet battle. Level alts. Play professions...

[TITAN308]

No one is forced to do anything.

I mean not to flame anyone, but...

Sure it does. With people who have compulsive disorders. Just saying... =P

[Ragestuff]

Yeeeeeep, that's the problem. I've allways been a raider at hearth, not super hardcore, realy, but allways TRIED to clear current content at the relevant time. In vanila i did 3 bosses in naxx in TBC i killed KJ, in Wrath i got Arthas HC, Cata / MoP, didn't play, in WoD i got 10/12 mythic, guild disbanded and eventualy got 12/12 before Legion launched. And gues what, did all that by raiding 12 hours a week.

In legion i said i'd take it even easier, joined a M TWO DAY A WEEK guild and am 7/7M and 2/3M, yes, by raiding 2 days a week. Endgame raiding has never EVER required a serios time comitement outside of the world first race....... and now it does. Problem is our guild is also quite large, raiding roster consists of about 30-35 people. Specificaly BECAUSE we all want a guild with less time constraints we have replacements.

But ofc there are those who are allready 54/54 and gues what, they'll get prio. I'm not in danger of loosing my guild or anything, the guild isn't enforcing we farm, but ofc for progress you take every advantage you get. And it's not only that but i also personaly feel bad if for the sake of inclusion or "fairness" i raid while someone who is 54/54 is benched. So let's say i get a an hour or two in of play every night and 5 hours thurs and sunday, as planned. At ak 25, doing daily's thats about 750k AP average, DHC 100k, a mythic 10+ is 300k, maybe do an extra M (tho it takes like an hour / M as dps, the dungeon takes like 15 mins, finding a grp is... hell) maybe there's more AP on the map than usual, thats about 1-1.5M / AP day, add in the AP from raids, maybe a couple extra hours on the weeked thats STILL anywhere from a month to two months to get 60M cunting AP.... for one weapon... and i'm a fucking warlock....

I'd say there's a pretty big problem when time = power. Might sound condescending or stupid to some, but raids are SPECIFICALY gated, weekly for that very reason.... but M+ (titanforge) and AP arn't.... who the FUCK ever thought a compleetly open ended progression system was a good idea i'll never understand... this the kinda bullshit that led to people OUTGEARING EN on opening week... and now we have that again, except now it's not gear, it's AP

My guild is a pretty laid back guild that raids 3 nights a week. We have people ranging from 33 traits-54 traits now (probably as of this writing). If it's such a laid back guild, the difference in power between 35 and 54 is 10%. There is ONE person in my guild that has reached 54, about 3 more that are even over 50, most are about 45. So in a pretty laid back guild, an increase of 5% increased output, yeah there's a difference, but far more likely to be a difference in player ability than 5%.

I've told people in my guild this time and time again, a GOOD player that isn't at the cutting edge (but competetive) will ALWAYS beat an AVERAGE player that IS at the cutting edge (gear/ap/class FotM), whether it be from not being dead, to just pulling off their rotation cleaner. I mean, I main swapped and still am not AK 25 and hit 38 traits yesterday.

A spriest in guild swapped to his hunter. He's not even 30 traits in. He was competetive night before last in the +10 Nelth's we were in.

People focus WAAAY too much on the math instead of in game results.

[tyrs ankle]

My guild is a pretty laid back guild that raids 3 nights a week. We have people ranging from 33 traits-54 traits now (probably as of this writing). If it's such a laid back guild, the difference in power between 35 and 54 is 10%. There is ONE person in my guild that has reached 54, about 3 more that are even over 50, most are about 45. So in a pretty laid back guild, an increase of 5% increased output, yeah there's a difference, but far more likely to be a difference in player ability than 5%.

I've told people in my guild this time and time again, a GOOD player that isn't at the cutting edge (but competetive) will ALWAYS beat an AVERAGE player that IS at the cutting edge (gear/ap/class FotM), whether it be from not being dead, to just pulling off their rotation cleaner. I mean, I main swapped and still am not AK 25 and hit 38 traits yesterday.

A spriest in guild swapped to his hunter. He's not even 30 traits in. He was competetive night before last in the +10 Nelth's we were in.

People focus WAAAY too much on the math instead of in game results.

100% this.
Theory and practice are 2 dif things. Most people can't pull off theoretical dps. Yes, getting 54 traits increases your dps. So does better gear. So does not standing in fire. So does rng. So does not dying. So does playing better.

[Simple057]

I stopped my ms now I am working on my other 3 artifacts(Druid) once they hit 34 I will go back to my ms wep I do not go out of my way to farm this stuff though

[Deleted]

Raid with the guild 3 times a week, do a couple of mythics and mythic plus and couple of WQs and im on 46

I dont consider myself a farmer of m+ and im around the same level as you, dont know why people consider it an 'exhausting grind'' when just playing randomly you get more than enough ap to get your artifacts high enough.

Blizzard said that you were supossed to farm AP the whole expansion

[Daffan]

When in the history in WoW have activities outside of raiding not been "trivial" based on that description? Honestly, at what stage did we have anything outside of raiding to do anything meaningful towards character progression, as that's what your definition of content seems to be. Back in Vanilla/TBC you would endlessly farm rep for a trinket that would soon be replaced in AQ/Naxx/BT, alongside with other blue upgrades that would be replaced just as easily, so that's trivial content? Throughout WOTLK/Cata you had the exact same thing, you could go over to the Argent Tournament Grounds and endlessly farm Champion's Seals for subpar items that were replaced in TOTC, so again trivial.

It's always revolved around raiding as being the core focus on the game, sure we have had some cool PVP areas, that's probably the extent of it though.

So when it the history of the game have we had "non-trivial" content in your eyes?

Trivial is both difficulty and time investment.

We are talking about the average player here too, not the top raiders. You make it sound like everything anyone ever did was a waste of time because in two week they'd replace it with Naxx/AQ40 gear rofl.

The average player found crafting to be an efficient large use of time, with lots of requirements that had a huge pay off.

The average player found dungeons to be of suitable difficulty and reward incentive. And so forth.

Then on top of that, my post reply was ALSO including raids. In previous expansions, if you were an average player you'd have 1-3 tiers worth of content to work on. Now you have 1 at most ever due to the patch reset cycle, and sometimes not even 1 (in the case of WoD as we referenced before) where you could get Welfare Baleful and Conquest that was better then almost Heroic HFC (More-so the farmable Conquest)

Hence people "having nothing to do" is much more valid in today's WoW experience. Or maybe it should be rephrased to nothing relevant or worthwhile.

That's been the bane of WoW since 3.2 (and there was already some ugly happening in late TBC with badge gear), and they never managed to get around fixing it.

Instead of fixing it they just try and get everyone hooked on the dopamine gambling with WF/TF to keep people playing.

Even casuals have a reason to do the same thing a million times now. Forget crafting, progressing through the tiers/raids or going up the mythic + difficulty chain. Just keep farming three chest mythic + on low difficulty, do your welfare world boss and timewalking afk dungeons and pray.

[PowerOfTwo]

Blizzard said that you were supossed to farm AP the whole expansion

Yes they did wich is kinda.... scary. In my last i said how even playing 1-2 hours a day you can get 1-1.5M AP. Even if you JUST do your WQ's and 1 RHC that's still 700k-1M AP, for compleetly neutered non-threatening content. Going slowly should still "only" take 2 months to get 54/54.... and it's suposed to take the whole xpac?

Who the flying fuck is this game designed for anymore?

[Deleted]

Remember when players were whining about how there was nothing to grind for? Now there is and people are still throwing a temper tantrum. Can't please anyone these days.

People didn't ask for a Grind, they asked for "stuff to do". There was plenty to "grind" for in WoD.

But personally I don't mind how Legion does things. At least not anymore, because I gave up on grinding the shit out of everything that gave AP. So now I am at 39 or something and perfectly happy. Some guys in my raids are way higher but tbh? I much rather stay sane after the insane amount of grinding I did in WoD, because there was nothing else to actually do.

[last1214]

I do miss some fucking breathing room in between content patch releases. Having nothing to do wasn't so bad? Was it? I personally had a temporary sense of accomplishment after I got to that point. I had accomplished everything, or nearly everything I had set out to do for the week/patch. It gave me time to play alts, Pvp, or alt tab and porn, without the feeling of dread that I was falling further and further behind.

I'm finally to the point this expac where I feel like I'm nearly caught up; my legendaries aren't bad, I have a few of them, and my artifact power grind is nearly complete. I just hope the feeling lasts more than 2 weeks...

[Trumpcat]

Oh bullshit. Still his choice to play with those people, etc. VERY few guilds are going to boot you for not having 54. And if he insists on playing with those people it's HIS CHOICE.

Man up. Decide what's important. Quit bitching and whining and take charge of your life and responsibility for your decisions.

PS: bolded the key parts. The way HE WANTS TO.... choices come with consequences. Deal.

^ This.

If you are playing with people that "require" you to farm, it's your choice. If you feel you are "required" to farm by the game itself, it's again your own problem.

You don't -need- above 35 for anything, except some insanely high m+ which is by far not casual content.

I do miss some fucking breathing room in between content patch releases. Having nothing to do wasn't so bad? Was it? I personally had a temporary sense of accomplishment after I got to that point. I had accomplished everything, or nearly everything I had set out to do for the week/patch. It gave me time to play alts, Pvp, or alt tab and porn, without the feeling of dread that I was falling further and further behind.

I'm finally to the point this expac where I feel like I'm nearly caught up; my legendaries aren't bad, I have a few of them, and my artifact power grind is nearly complete. I just hope the feeling lasts more than 2 weeks...

You are releasing too much content Blizz! We can't handle it anymore, we are tired of so much content, Blizz, please release less content! But then Blizz says you will keep getting more and more.
.. But on a serious note, indeed constantly raising the farm cap diminishes the sense of accomplishment. It is a very fine line. On the other hand the non-grindy content, like story quests, cutscenes, etc. takes a lot of resource to produce so it can never be paced the same way that grindy content can.

[vsb]

My guild is a pretty laid back guild that raids 3 nights a week. We have people ranging from 33 traits-54 traits now (probably as of this writing). If it's such a laid back guild, the difference in power between 35 and 54 is 10%. There is ONE person in my guild that has reached 54, about 3 more that are even over 50, most are about 45. So in a pretty laid back guild, an increase of 5% increased output, yeah there's a difference, but far more likely to be a difference in player ability than 5%.

I've told people in my guild this time and time again, a GOOD player that isn't at the cutting edge (but competetive) will ALWAYS beat an AVERAGE player that IS at the cutting edge (gear/ap/class FotM), whether it be from not being dead, to just pulling off their rotation cleaner. I mean, I main swapped and still am not AK 25 and hit 38 traits yesterday.

A spriest in guild swapped to his hunter. He's not even 30 traits in. He was competetive night before last in the +10 Nelth's we were in.

People focus WAAAY too much on the math instead of in game results.

The problem is, everyone is already playing at their max. You can't improve your gameplay. All guides are already read, interface is set up. So the only thing you can do to improve your dps is your gear. And AP farming now becomes mandatory.

You're talking trivial things. Yes, someone might have better reaction, than me, I can't do anything about it. I'm playing 15 years and my reaction is as good, as it could be, it won't improve. I can't do anything about my ping, it's 100ms if I'm lucky and 200-500ms otherwise. I can't migrate to Amsterdam, sorry, that's outside of my capabilities. I can't do anything about my FPS, my money is shelved for new car, so my PC is all I got now. I'm reading guides, tactics, it's obvious, but then I'm going to farm AP, because I don't have a choice. I can't farm my ping or my reaction time, sorry.

So Legion is chinese farm. That's the fact which makes otherwise awesome addon so terrible for many people.