The Terrifying Stakes Of Repealing Obamacare Without A Clear Replacement

[Tinykong]

if you are in an in-network facility, and they utilize out of network providers most, if not all, insurance plans/carriers have hold harmless clauses that will pay these providers at your in network level of benefits. i.e the anesthesialogist who comes in while you are being cut open will be paid at your in-network even though almost all fo them in the country are never contracted with insurance companies because they have a de-facto monopoly.

You're going to have to prove this, because I've never had an insurance policy that worked like this in my lifetime.

[Ghostpanther]

What you're suggesting is really only possible under a single payer system, where the government would have a lot more leverage in negotiating prices than insurance companies do now. And I suppose you could technically do away with the mandate in such a system, only that people who opt out would still have to keep paying the same taxes as if they still had insurance, so there'd be no point but hey, choices amirite? Is this what you support?

I can support a single payer system. As far as the taxes being more for those who did not choose to have insurance, I am assuming you are referring to the write off for insurance premiums when people file their taxes? A deductible? If they choose the standard short form with the standard deductions already figured into their tax return, I would have no issues with that. I mean if you itemize your deductions and go the long form, you could deduct more if your insurance plan cost more than average.

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You're going to have to prove this, because I've never had an insurance policy that worked like this in my lifetime.

Mine does not work like that. If you use a care which is not provided by a approved Provider which is listed, you pay all the costs. Period.

[Dsc]

What was wrong with the plan we had BEFORE debaclecare? I had healthcare reasonably priced, cheaper in fact, where I could see the doctor of my choice. It was amazing.... well before Obama, Big insurance and the dems got ahold of it. Remember Gruber? "The Architect"

Let me refresh your memory...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adrdmmh7bMo



Or Pelosi: "We Have to Pass the Bill So That You Can Find Out What Is In "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU



The best part, is Trump HAS a plan, but instead of acknowledging it's existence these shysters keep shrilling, " OMFG, Trump Debil, He Take Zerocare Away!"

The media peddles the lie, and the masses gobble it up.

2 Days. I can't Wait!

[daenerys]

The republicans had an alternate healthcare plan on the table since before Obamacare even passed, so there are alternate plans out there. It's just a matter of if the Republicans choose to repeal and replace in one vote, or if they instead choose to just gut it, and leave it at that.

But while repealing Obamacare will cost some people their insurance, Obamacare passing made insurance to expensive for others costing them their insurance. Repealing Obamacare in turn may force some to lose their insurance, but will likely make insurance affordable for others again who had to drop it.

[Tinykong]

Mine does not work like that. If you use a care which is not provided by a approved Provider which is listed, you pay all the costs. Period.

Mine have always paid some amount, usually as close to nothing as possible, and you get billed for the difference. It's against the law in some states and in some situations, but if it's not, you're on the hook for whatever is left over.

[Fugus]

The republicans had an alternate healthcare plan on the table since before Obamacare even passed, so there are alternate plans out there. It's just a matter of if the Republicans choose to repeal and replace in one vote, or if they instead choose to just gut it, and leave it at that.

But while repealing Obamacare will cost some people their insurance, Obamacare passing made insurance to expensive for others costing them their insurance. Repealing Obamacare in turn may force some to lose their insurance, but will likely make insurance affordable for others again who had to drop it.

The Republicans have offered no other plans and had no other plans before Obamacare, Romneycare and Obamacare are just tweaks of the same thing based on an older version of it, but they are all the same thing and half of Trumps shit he is claiming his plan will be describe either Obamacare now or Single payer both of which go against what the republicans want. Overall, there seems to be a split between the republicans who want to gut it and leave it be and consequences be damned and some of the more intelligent ones who want to make sure their is a replacement already for it.

And overall, Obamacare slowed the increase insurance rates. Yes it went up during it, but it also went up before it too. The main ones who had to drop it from what I read were the junk insurance plans which weren't really insurance as it didn't meet any real standards of quality.

Not saying there might have been some exceptions to that, but overall, it was a net benefit to what we had before and so far neither Trump nor the Republicans have offered any alternatives to it that aren't worse in quality.

[ControlWarrior]

Did I miss the terrifying part? I brought popcorn!

[purebalance]

A more realistic example is something like this:

I get kicked off my health insurance because ACA gets repealed. One day I notice a pain in my neck. I don't go to the doctor because I don't have health insurance. Live with this pain for several years, because I don't have health insurance. Eventually the pain is so bad that I go to the doctor. I have a tumor on my spinal cord. If I went to the doctor 3 years ago, I could have caught this and treated it. But it's too late. The cancer has spread. Now I'm going to die in a few months.

That shit will absolutely happen if people get kicked off their health insurance plans.

I have health insurance through school now only because the GI bill pays for it(and I found out VA coverage would have worked from the start) and have been seen once by a doctor just because I wanted acne meds. Meanwhile at work people on insurances I know are from ACA come in for a cough that started 2 hours ago with no fever etc on a regular basis. Hell some of these people come multiple times a month for stupid crap that they wouldn't be coming for if they had to pay out of pocket.

There needs to be far stricter guidelines on people who are using their ACA derived insurance for stupid shit and to remove the tax penalty for those who choose to not get it.

[drakensoul]

Most doctor's aren't working the hours you said, in fact, hardly any are. You're posting incorrect information to make your argument, don't get snide when you get called out on it.



This is a deliberate misrepresentation of my argument. Reducing physicians salaries, by lowering the reasons for why their salaries are high, will have further reaching impacts than just the cost of their salaries. Doctors aren't being paid $400k a year solely becaussae they are worth $400k to their practice, but because of the cost of doing business as a doctor. You completely glossed over that point in your crusade to defend the tireless medical professionals who are working 45 hours a week.

So you take the highest quartile of salaries (400,000), which few physicians make, completely neglect to notice that the doctors who make higher salaries are the ones who work the longer hours, and I'm the one posting incorrect information to make an argument?

Suffice it to say it's a very dishonest misrepresentation of reality to point to family practice and primary care physician hours and link them to surgical subspecialty salaries. And those of us who do work the crazy hours that "hardly anyone works" find said misrepresentations to be distasteful. That includes almost any hospital based surgeon of any specialty, almost all of whom work more than sixty hours a week.

The fact that you've decided to believe that no one works more than 45 hours a week and they all pull in $400,000 a year is not correct; clearly you're on some kind of a quest yourself.

I couldn't tell you the last time I've worked under 60 hours in a week if my life depended on it. I just worked 6 days straight, 12 hour days, took three off and have another 11 days straight, 12 hours a day coming up. I work 12 hour shifts and I work 23 days a month.

Best of luck, and I look forward to a single payer system with universal access. Unfortunately that won't be happening under Trump.

http://www.bestmedicaldegrees.com/salary-of-doctors/

[Surfd]

The best part, is Trump HAS a plan, but instead of acknowledging it's existence these shysters keep shrilling, " OMFG, Trump Debil, He Take Zerocare Away!"

The media peddles the lie, and the masses gobble it up.

2 Days. I can't Wait!

Trump has a plan? Like an actual plan, with actual details? This comes as news to just about everybody following this whole shitshow. Can you provide sources to this plan? Or anything, at all to prove that Trump has a plan, other then Trump saying that he has a plan? Cause so far, the closest thing Trump has come to having a "plan" is spouting long streams of vague generalities about how great the changes he is going to make to things are, and how awesome they will be. Just you wait and see.

[daenerys]

The Republicans have offered no other plans and had no other plans before Obamacare, Romneycare and Obamacare are just tweaks of the same thing based on an older version of it, but they are all the same thing and half of Trumps shit he is claiming his plan will be describe either Obamacare now or Single payer both of which go against what the republicans want. Overall, there seems to be a split between the republicans who want to gut it and leave it be and consequences be damned and some of the more intelligent ones who want to make sure their is a replacement already for it.

And overall, Obamacare slowed the increase insurance rates. Yes it went up during it, but it also went up before it too. The main ones who had to drop it from what I read were the junk insurance plans which weren't really insurance as it didn't meet any real standards of quality.

Not saying there might have been some exceptions to that, but overall, it was a net benefit to what we had before and so far neither Trump nor the Republicans have offered any alternatives to it that aren't worse in quality.

Republicans had a full plan on the table while obamacare was being passed, put together by a medical doctor congressman, the democrats just wouldn't let it be voted on. Republicans have a plan now, denying it won't make it any less so. They're easy enough to find if you want to look. And obamacare rates went up faster than in previous years. Some people though found their rates go up much higher than others because obamacare outlawed several plans, meaning that people who were on discount plans found the next best plan sometimes 4x more expensive, and since they made to much for subsedies, had to drop their healthcare as a result.

You may say that the republicans haven't offered one that isn't worse, but that's a matter of perspective, Obamacare has a very bad reputation out there, more people say they'd prefer healthcare the way it was before Obamacare, than the current state of obamacare.

[Zeta333]

Did I miss the terrifying part? I brought popcorn!

people who dont understand how things get repealed think that the republics and trump will make obamacare dissapear without a trace, when in reality they dont have the numbers for a full repeal but can nuke parts of it. And tbh the whole thing isnt shit, just parts of it need to be replaced.

[Barnabas]

Did I miss the terrifying part? I brought popcorn!

The people getting the good deal from obamacare are terrified that the free lunch is over.

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people who dont understand how things get repealed think that the republics and trump will make obamacare dissapear without a trace, when in reality they dont have the numbers for a full repeal but can nuke parts of it. And tbh the whole thing isnt shit, just parts of it need to be replaced.

No it's great for the people getting the good deal on the cost of the policy and it doesn't matter what parts of it are great to the people not getting the good deal. If you happen to live anywhere an insurer deems a high risk pool it sucks to be you.You pay more for insurance even if you don't get sick for 30 years. You could need physical therapy and insurance can basically lock you out for the year after 24 visits because you meet your maximum benefit level. (the bolded part applies nationwide no matter where you live and even the people getting the good deal are in the same boat.) There are many ways insurance companies can game obamacare to their advantage while you are sick and are forced to pay for the policy or a penalty and have no coverage at all.

[Zeta333]

The people getting the good deal from obamacare are terrified that the free lunch is over.

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No it's great for the people getting the good deal on the cost of the policy and it doesn't matter what parts of it are great to the people not getting the good deal. If you happen to live anywhere an insurer deems a high risk pool it sucks to be you.You pay more for insurance even if you don't get sick for 30 years. You could need physical therapy and insurance can basically lock you out for the year after 24 visits because you meet your maximum benefit level. (the bolded part applies nationwide no matter where you live and even the people getting the good deal are in the same boat.) There are many ways insurance companies can game obamacare to their advantage while your sick is forced to pay for the policy or a penalty and have no coverage at all.

Again parts of it are good, parts of it are shit, there is ZERO chance the entire thing will be repealed. Unless half the democrats vote republican for some reason.

[Macaquerie]

Again parts of it are good, parts of it are shit, there is ZERO chance the entire thing will be repealed. Unless half the democrats vote republican for some reason.

I'm sure they'll try something like repealing the mandate while continuing to maintain coverage for pre-existing conditions, and then blame Obama for the resulting spike in premiums. The problems with Obamacare all lie in the fact that it doesn't go far enough - not enough subsidies to help people with premiums, not enough of a penalty to deter people from opting out, and not empowering the health system with enough leverage to negotiate lower costs for treatment. The fix is to ADD to it, not to repeal it and start over.

Yes, doing all of that will cost money, and it will require wealthier folks to pick up more of the tab so that the less fortunate can be cared for. Earlier in this thread, someone pointed to the German health system as a model to follow, and it's curious that their system was devised by none other than Bismarck himself, whom nobody could ever accuse of being some radical pinko leftist. His whole idea was to create welfare policies based on the idea of national solidarity, using the health, safety, and prosperity of society as a source of strength to draw on, spurring people to work harder and innovate more, and I don't see why that idea can't be applied in America as well.

[Wells]

people who dont understand how things get repealed think that the republics and trump will make obamacare dissapear without a trace, when in reality they dont have the numbers for a full repeal but can nuke parts of it. And tbh the whole thing isnt shit, just parts of it need to be replaced.

What on earth makes you think you can just remove significant parts of the law and still have it function?

[Trumpcat]

It is rather amusing to see the medias gradually going pro-Obamacare to stay opposite to Trump. The same medias that were telling us how terrible the system was years ago. Now everyone is supposed to cower in fear "Oh, noes, Obamacare gets repealed, everyone dies!"

The vocal social media snowflakes rather see prices keep going sky high than agree it's a terrible system that needs replacement. (And should have never come in effect in that form in the first place).

[Barnabas]

Again parts of it are good, parts of it are shit, there is ZERO chance the entire thing will be repealed. Unless half the democrats vote republican for some reason.

You gotta be dreaming if you think republicans don't have the 51 for the nuclear option. Democrats are really going to regret that change they wanted. Republicans have both the house and senate and a president to sign the bill. Even bill clinton said obamacare was terrible and never stated it was in parts.

[Zeta333]

What on earth makes you think you can just remove significant parts of the law and still have it function?

becuase they have allready said they plan to replace those parts they get rid of. A start would be removing the penalty for not having it. Pretty fucking dumb to fine people money for not being able to afford somthing.

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You gotta be dreaming if you think republicans don't have the 51 for the nuclear option. Democrats are really going to regret that change they wanted. Republicans have both the house and senate and a president to sign the bill. Even bill clinton said obamacare was terrible and never stated it was in parts.

go look it up, you need alot more than what republicans have.

[Wells]

becuase they have allready said they plan to replace those parts they get rid of.

Oh they said? Well then, I guess all questions answered, we can definitely take their promises at face value.

A start would be removing the penalty for not having it. Pretty fucking dumb to fine people money for not being able to afford somthing.

This right here is what I'm talking about. Without the mandate in place there's no mechanism to make insurance profitable after all the consumer benefits the ACA grants. The ACA is a three legged stool. You can't just take a leg out.