New 7.1.5 Icy Talons Build - Try it out

[Revofevi]

As 7.1.5 hit I would imagine nearly every Frost Dk out there felt a massive shift in their rotation from feeling fluid and rewarding to, for a lack of a better term, clunky.

With the nerf/bug fix to RE, it seemed in just a few days every Dk had given up on the previous build and began testing out BoS. I do think that the Breath build can feel more rewarding in a sense, being able to line everything up perfectly and deal loads of damage for as long as you can keep it up.

However, such high damage does come with a certain risk/reward where if by chance you can’t stick on the boss for whatever reason then the rotation after your Breath falls off feels like an even harder slap in the face. Also with the leggy bracers and cloak the Icy Talons build seemed like the best route for me. Personally, I enjoyed the previous build and micro-managing IT was enjoyable enough, so I was determined to make it work again.

After hours of smacking the Reanimated Monstrosity with every combination of talents/gear I had, I tried out the one thing I didn’t think would actually work, and that was Horn of Winter. The ability alone completely revamped the spec for me and added another level of fun and management to the rotation while also keeping a similar feel to how it was before the patch. It works really fluidly with either RA or Frostscythe by being able to take away the painful downtimes and also being competitive with the Breath build. I’m running 2/3/1/3/2/2/3 with 26%crit/21%haste/6%vers/25%mast. and urge any Frost Dks who enjoyed how we were before to give it a whirl and see how you like it.

First time posting here and I figured I’d share my findings. Been playing Dk all expac and will probably make a post about Blood also at some point. Lemme know what yall think and ask me any questions you might have. Thanks guys.

[Felstone]

What did you post this from an Edison typewriter?

As 7.1.5 hit I would imagine nearly every Frost Dk out there felt a massive shift in their rotation from feeling fluid and rewarding to, for a lack of a better term, clunky.

With the nerf/bug fix to RE, it seemed in just a few days every Dk had given up on the previous build and began testing out BoS. I do think that the Breath build can feel more rewarding in a sense, being able to line everything up perfectly and deal loads of damage for as long as you can keep it up.

However, such high damage does come with a certain risk/reward where if by chance you can’t stick on the boss for whatever reason then the rotation after your Breath falls off feels like an even harder slap in the face. Also with the leggy bracers and cloak the Icy Talons build seemed like the best route for me. Personally, I enjoyed the previous build and micro-managing IT was enjoyable enough, so I was determined to make it work again.

After hours of smacking the Reanimated Monstrosity with every combination of talents/gear I had, I tried out the one thing I didn’t think would actually work, and that was Horn of Winter. The ability alone completely revamped the spec for me and added another level of fun and management to the rotation while also keeping a similar feel to how it was before the patch. It works really fluidly with either RA or Frostscythe by being able to take away the painful downtimes and also being competitive with the Breath build. I’m running 2/3/1/3/2/2/3 with 26%crit/21%haste/6%vers/25%mast. and urge any Frost Dks who enjoyed how we were before to give it a whirl and see how you like it.

First time posting here and I figured I’d share my findings. Been playing Dk all expac and will probably make a post about Blood also at some point. Lemme know what yall think and ask me any questions you might have. Thanks guys.

For everyones sanity ...

[cujoe]

For everyones sanity ...

Thanks mate

[gixxpunk]

2310023 is a 11% DPS loss over 2230021 in simc (T19H_NH). I cannot see this working.

[Revofevi]

I was more trying to replicate the feel of our previous build considering some of the complaints I've seen, not asking for dps number comparisons from simcraft. Whether or not it works is subjective, the playstyle is smooth and leaves room for error. Just try it out m8

[Cerunnir]

2310023 is a 11% DPS loss over 2230021 in simc (T19H_NH). I cannot see this working.

"Working" is subjective. That DPS difference is neglicible for any guild that isnt progressing world first mythic bosses. In a casual guild if your doing 400k vs 360k would not make a lick of difference. People are probably losing MUCH more than that from imperfect ability usage, and playing a spec that you feel comfortable with in that situation may actually increase your DPS.

Perfect example is BoS builds. While it may perform best on paper, alof of people are not going to be successfull with it and would be better served staying in IT/FP.

[gixxpunk]

11% is not negligible. Even for heroic. Also this build (2310023) is already overcapping ressources (8,5%). It will be even worse with 2pc/4pc set. Yes, you can push buttons more often, but it has way too much disadvantages...

[Revofevi]

As I said, this build works equally if not better with Frostscythe and allows for lower percentages of haste (20%) which leaves room to stack more mastery/crit. With RA resources would of course be overcapping, but it felt smooth in both instances nonetheless. I just prefer GA over Oblit, but both should work with this btw.

I took into consideration the type of fights in NH as well as for M+ Dungeons, where aoe dps and target swapping is necessary in a lot of cases. With that in mind, being able to do on-demand aoe burst with FsC, keep up Icy Talons when swapping, and freely gear towards mastery (our best aoe stat) seems to me like it SHOULD by all means have greater uptime doing damage and be increasingly viable with current content. This may or may not end up being the case, but atleast it's damn satisfying to play.

However, if you'd like to repeat information I have already seen on my own sims and brainlessly play what Blizzard incentivizes you to play then more power to ya my friend.

[Felstone]

It looks like an interesting build, i'd like to see how it plays out in raids vs what simmed (as others have noted it looks like a DPS loss).

[Revofevi]

I'll post some logs here later today of the build in Normal and Heroic NH. I was doing around 400-420k sustained on the Monstrosity in the class hall at 884 equipped to give y'all some sort of range dps-wise.

[Hoeth]

Picked up 2 piece last night, and with 8k haste and the legendary belt I was resource capped on every fight afterward running 2/2/1/x/x/2/1. So overcapped that my FP damage dropped to ~3%.

[gixxpunk]

I took into consideration the type of fights in NH as well as for M+ Dungeons, where aoe dps and target swapping is necessary in a lot of cases.

Beside Spellblade there is not a single encounter in NH where AOE really matters.

Regarding M+: 2310023 is 25% behind 2230033 (4 Targets).

[Revofevi]

The type of fights I could see this build being somewhat competitive on would be using FsC (2/3/1/x/x/1/3) on any of the AoE/cleave centric bosses like Skorp, Tich, etc. where your burst aoe would be useful during the downtime of the BoS. While also being able to sustain decent single target without rune/rp starving.

M+ viability - I've seen little to no difference so far bet. FP and HoW dps-wise so far, just a preference of feel.

As a side note - if you don't enjoy it/find it pointless for your stats n legendaries don't use it, mostly a suggestion to get people to try out different talent setups instead of the constant cookie cutter talents.

[gixxpunk]

As a side note - if you don't enjoy it/find it pointless for your stats n legendaries don't use it, mostly a suggestion to get people to try out different talent setups instead of the constant cookie cutter talents.

It's not a matter of like/dislike. Not sure why you always try to start a discussion about it...

While I still think this build is not viable (dps wise), this discussion has persuaded me to improve the FDK APL in simc towards non BoS builds that use HoW and/or HRW. Your proposed build will sim noticible higher come tomorrows simc nightly.

[Amalkatrazz]

As 7.1.5 hit I would imagine nearly every Frost Dk out there felt a massive shift in their rotation from feeling fluid and rewarding to, for a lack of a better term, clunky.

With the nerf/bug fix to RE, it seemed in just a few days every Dk had given up on the previous build and began testing out BoS. I do think that the Breath build can feel more rewarding in a sense, being able to line everything up perfectly and deal loads of damage for as long as you can keep it up.

However, such high damage does come with a certain risk/reward where if by chance you can’t stick on the boss for whatever reason then the rotation after your Breath falls off feels like an even harder slap in the face. Also with the leggy bracers and cloak the Icy Talons build seemed like the best route for me. Personally, I enjoyed the previous build and micro-managing IT was enjoyable enough, so I was determined to make it work again.

After hours of smacking the Reanimated Monstrosity with every combination of talents/gear I had, I tried out the one thing I didn’t think would actually work, and that was Horn of Winter. The ability alone completely revamped the spec for me and added another level of fun and management to the rotation while also keeping a similar feel to how it was before the patch. It works really fluidly with either RA or Frostscythe by being able to take away the painful downtimes and also being competitive with the Breath build. I’m running 2/3/1/3/2/2/3 with 26%crit/21%haste/6%vers/25%mast. and urge any Frost Dks who enjoyed how we were before to give it a whirl and see how you like it.

First time posting here and I figured I’d share my findings. Been playing Dk all expac and will probably make a post about Blood also at some point. Lemme know what yall think and ask me any questions you might have. Thanks guys.

Was thinking about incorporating HoV into MG, too; but FSc-based MG (currently the best version of frost for quite bosses in Normal/Heroic NH) becomes substantially weaker if deprived of FP (on Tichondrius, FP was my 2nd highest source of damage).

[Keren]

It's not a matter of like/dislike. Not sure why you always try to start a discussion about it...

While I still think this build is not viable (dps wise), this discussion has persuaded me to improve the FDK APL in simc towards non BoS builds that use HoW and/or HRW. Your proposed build will sim noticible higher come tomorrows simc nightly.

thanks for your hard work gixx! updates to the DK sims are always appreciated

[varraz]

For me FP is almost the best damage ability on 2-3 targets fight, dont think dropping it for HoW is worth. Then again i have the legen ring and memento for Haste buffs and barely have downtimes in my rotation. Then also wait for your 2piece Bonus.

[Deadletter]

Beside Spellblade there is not a single encounter in NH where AOE really matters.

Gotta pad them scorp meters yo.

[DarkBlade6]

If you don't pick Frozen pulse, Icy Talon is not really worth it, you'd be better with Murderous Effiency... might as well go BoS at this point

[flyingspatula]

I play 2/2/3/x/x/1/3 fs/ga build in mythic+ but often find myself sitting for seconds doing nothing in single target fights due to no rp while runes are recharging. Am I suppose to save rp for those moments I run out of runes? I feel like I never really get to make much use of icy talons either. I assume you prioritize fs/ga in aoe situations and not worry about icy talons. But I definitely suffer in boss fights especially 10-15 with tyrannical. Im 44 in frost and have 30crit/23haste, but have zero frost legendaries.