1. #2901
    Epic! Ryuji's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Convergence of Fates: now activates 70% less often for Retribution Paladins (other specs unaffected).
    But...why? NH has been out for literally 1 day and a nerf already? I thought the PTR was meant to test junk like this. Unless around 24 hours worth of data for the few Rets who have it already was enough for them to go "NOPE GOTTA NERF."
    Last edited by Ryuji; 2017-01-19 at 03:45 AM.
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  2. #2902
    Deleted
    JUST



    10char

  3. #2903
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuji View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Convergence of Fates: now activates 70% less often for Retribution Paladins (other specs unaffected).
    But...why? NH has been out for literally 1 day and a nerf already? I thought the PTR was meant to test junk like this. Unless around 24 hours worth of data for the few Rets who have it already was enough for them to go "NOPE GOTTA NERF."
    Makes you wonder if Blizz even simulates shit at all and why there even is a PTR...

  4. #2904
    Not even remotely close to the top of the logs and we get the nerf while only getting around 4 PPM on the trinket while others are getting around 6...

  5. #2905
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    oh well I don't even know what to say. Was kalgan visiting at the last to-be-fixed meeting?

  6. #2906
    Scarab Lord miffy23's Avatar
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    Wow, people are seriously overreacting. We are absolutely great in Nighthold without the trinket, yet people act as if the spec itself had been gimped. Grow up...

  7. #2907
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    Wow, people are seriously overreacting. We are absolutely great in Nighthold without the trinket, yet people act as if the spec itself had been gimped. Grow up...
    People were looking forward to a strong trinket choice outside of FCM, one that made sense with Drought of Souls as well...that they are now disappointed isn't strange at all.

    At the end of the day if a 70% nerf was needed it should never have gone live in the first place. They have the PTR to test in, they have simcraft to simulate in, they probably have internal tools to simulate with (although I'm starting to doubt it). This shouldn't happen and not only creates disappointment but also screws with loot distributions in a bad way.

  8. #2908
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    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    Wow, people are seriously overreacting. We are absolutely great in Nighthold without the trinket, yet people act as if the spec itself had been gimped. Grow up...
    ever thought about how our position will go down the drain when other classes get the un-nerfed version?
    All this shit about "without the trinket we are fine" yes we are but only because no one got any new gear so far. Start talking about how we are fine in 3-4 weeks.

  9. #2909
    Scarab Lord miffy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CptKnusper View Post
    ever thought about how our position will go down the drain when other classes get the un-nerfed version?
    All this shit about "without the trinket we are fine" yes we are but only because no one got any new gear so far. Start talking about how we are fine in 3-4 weeks.
    Except that those profiles had been simmed to death on ptr for weeks and we were very high up consistently. So...

  10. #2910
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    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    Except that those profiles had been simmed to death on ptr for weeks and we were very high up consistently. So...
    yes on the PTR previous to the fucking nerf you... why am I arguing at all. obviously the concept of time flowing only in one direction under normal laws of physic is lost to you.

  11. #2911
    Scarab Lord miffy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CptKnusper View Post
    yes on the PTR previous to the fucking nerf you... why am I arguing at all. obviously the concept of time flowing only in one direction under normal laws of physic is lost to you.
    No, you misunderstand. Even without the trinket, Ret performs very strongly in NH gear. The significance of Convergence in terms of "not being benched" is being laughably exaggerated once again. The fact of the matter is that Ret was pulling away pretty drastically pre-nerf, now the trinket is arguably weaker than for several other specs, but brings Ret in line overall.

  12. #2912
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    The fact of the matter is that Ret was pulling away pretty drastically pre-nerf, now the trinket is arguably weaker than for several other specs, but brings Ret in line overall.
    Now the trinket is a stat stick...with a ppm of 1.2 you won't see any realistic benefit from it unless the fight is exceptionally long. Not to mention how it will screw with 2min CD trinkets and pots. It also diminishes the usefulness of Drought of Souls as the CD's won't line up anymore.

  13. #2913
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    I suppose that regardless of how Ret is performing, Convergence is/was imbalanced compared to the other trinkets available for any given ilvl for Rets (especially vs KJW LOL).

    Does anyone have data to show that CoF is imbalanced for any other class?

  14. #2914
    Scarab Lord miffy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toby wong View Post
    I suppose that regardless of how Ret is performing, Convergence is/was imbalanced compared to the other trinkets available for any given ilvl for Rets (especially vs KJW LOL).

    Does anyone have data to show that CoF is imbalanced for any other class?
    It won't be. The reason it skews so away for Ret lies in the nature of Crusade, giving us ungodly haste and ergo faster "ticks" on the trinket pre-nerf.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    Now the trinket is a stat stick...with a ppm of 1.2 you won't see any realistic benefit from it unless the fight is exceptionally long. Not to mention how it will screw with 2min CD trinkets and pots. It also diminishes the usefulness of Drought of Souls as the CD's won't line up anymore.
    I agree that it is a little disappointing in terms of how fun the playstyle would be to have near-permanent Crusade uptime, but people are massively exaggerating how crucial it would have been for our viability.

  15. #2915
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    I agree that it is a little disappointing in terms of how fun the playstyle would be to have near-permanent Crusade uptime, but people are massively exaggerating how crucial it would have been for our viability.
    It's not just about how strong or fun it would have been, it's also about how it renders it more or less useless other than as a stat stick due to mismatching cooldowns and making DoS worse. Also means we's stuck with the same old trinkets or lack there of as before NH.

    Blizzard should have seen this coming and fixed the problem long before it hit live servers and people spent loot rolls/prio on this item. They also should have thought out something functional for ret so we had proper trinket upgrades in NH if CoF wasn't meant to be it.
    Last edited by Redblade; 2017-01-19 at 12:03 PM.

  16. #2916
    Scarab Lord miffy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    It's not just about how strong or fun it would have been, it's also about how it renders it more or less useless other than as a stat stick due to mismatching cooldowns and making DoS worse. Also means we's stuck with the same old trinkets or lack there of as before NH.

    Blizzard should have seen this coming and fixed the problem long before it hit live servers and people loot rolls/prio on this item. They also should have thought out something functional for ret so we had proper trinket upgrades in NH if CoF wasn't meant to be it.
    You mean like they should have fixed FCM being absurdly too good for Crusade in, like, week 2?

  17. #2917
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    You mean like they should have fixed FCM being absurdly too good for Crusade in, like, week 2?
    Well perhaps they should have but then again that would have required an alternative or slight buffs to the class it self. I mean at the core Crusade is the problem but as we have that and Blizz can't work out a viable alternative that the community can get on board with we are where we are. With that in mind CoF was a viable trinket upgrade that made sense paired with DoS.

    I can fix CoF for ret quite easily though, change it to "Your attacks have a chance to increase the duration of your next Crusade by 5 seconds, this effect stacks." Then the 1.2 ppm works and all is well with the world. The 1.2 ppm as a reduction causes more problems than benefits.

  18. #2918
    Scarab Lord miffy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    Well perhaps they should have but then again that would have required an alternative or slight buffs to the class it self. I mean at the core Crusade is the problem but as we have that and Blizz can't work out a viable alternative that the community can get on board with we are where we are. With that in mind CoF was a viable trinket upgrade that made sense paired with DoS.

    I can fix CoF for ret quite easily though, change it to "Your attacks have a chance to increase the duration of your next Crusade by 5 seconds, this effect stacks." Then the 1.2 ppm works and all is well with the world. The 1.2 ppm as a reduction causes more problems than benefits.
    It sounds like it was just a panic nerf to prevent everyone overstacking Rets in Mythic week 1.

  19. #2919
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    It sounds like it was just a panic nerf to prevent everyone overstacking Rets in Mythic week 1.
    If it is then it speaks volumes about their lack of internal testing/listening to the community and lack of internal simming capabilities. Something you would expect them to have nailed down to almost perfection after 10+ years.

  20. #2920
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    It sounds like it was just a panic nerf to prevent everyone overstacking Rets in Mythic week 1.
    As if this was ever a realistic strategy. The best ranged will get overstacked, like every tier ever since WF raiding started morphing into what it is today.

    I assert the following: Never again will there be more than 3 of a single melee spec on a world first kill unless it involves an exploit like feral druid dots on heroic Nefarian. There will be fights in the future, possibly this tier, where 3 or more of the same ranged spec is stacked without an exploit being the reason for the stacking.
    Last edited by OrcsRLame; 2017-01-19 at 12:28 PM.

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