Significance of Nightborne and Lefion events to the Night Elf world

[ravenmoon]

Any new events in Nighthold raid?

How do we free the time-trapped elven armies? Does Vereesa/Liadrin have any roles/lore besides appearing very briefly in the end cinematic? Any interesting gossip from their NPCs in the raid?

Time trapped armies are freed once you defeat the chronomatic anomaly, you meet them all after you leave the basement and enter the main courtyard. I didn't see Vereesa, but Tyrande was there, maybe they swapped her out.


You free Lunastre, and Elisande's fate is still uncertain, as her echo leads you, it is unclear whether this may somehow result in her later on, or if she would remain an echo helping future nightborne leaders stay true and have a bit more faith than she had. However Thalrenus of the moon guard refers to her in the present tense "if Elisande has seen reason ... " which indicates she is very much alive, but probably quite weakened by the fight.

- - - Updated - - -

News just in, there is going to be no more nightwell, which means there is no great power to use,

there is no ability to hold their own against the horde or the alliance.

With the nightwell gone, the horde will not have interest in an allegiance with the nightborne, and the night elves will not have this power to use or gain in an allegiance.

There will be no sunwell counterpart - perhaps the Well of Eternity will remain the opposite number.

Atm, only the night elves will have any interest in Suramar now. A nightwell free Suramar despite all the shifts will be very appealing to the magic cautious - and let's not forget the night elves may have allowed and accepted the practice of arcane magic once more, but apart from the new practitioners who join the rank of the highborne, i think the others remain wary of it. Well up until Legion, which should allay most of their remaining fears.

Despite that, such power even with a cure would always be alluring, perhaps they have chosen wisdom in letting it go, and finding another path. Perhaps the nightwell in particular was too cursed.

[Rhlor]

@ravenmoon Rommath said the blood elves do not care about nightwell, Lady liadrin cares for the wellbeing of the nightborne. The blood elves went to suramar to help their kinds.
The blood elves may have the interest of knowing their cousins more. Tae'thelan would like to visit their library

[Friendlyimmolation]

Was pretty happy to kill Elisande, if Kael'thas died she should too

as for letting the nightwell die, it seems the stupidity of Tyrande has started to work its way into the nightborne, good to go.


Its still a laughable and wishful thing to say only night elves will be interested in surumar now however, nightborne haven't forgotten what it means to be a magic society, (yet)

[Caerule]

Hmm. The Nightwell being gone does change things. Drawing on its power demanded proximity, as you needed to be close to draw from it, or drink it through Arcwine, which isn't available outside Suramar. With the Nightwell gone, there is a greater likelihood of Nightborne actually moving out into the rest of the world.

If Blizzard hadn't stated they don't think the Neutral Race thing didn't work out, I'd say the Shal'dorei would be a perfect candidate for finding a place among both the Horde and Alliance. With some choosing a more natural path and going with the Night Elven way, same as the majority of the Night Elves did after the War of the Ancients. And some sticking to their culture and magic, seeking knowledge and power among their Blood Elven cousins.

I still think the Blood Elves would be interested in an alliance between the kingdoms of magic. And that Arcan'dor must remain a very interesting thing to see more of. There is a lot more things about subjects they love that the Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei could learn from each other. More so than Night Elves. But I am mildly biased as Horde.

[ravenmoon]

Was pretty happy to kill Elisande, if Kael'thas died she should too

as for letting the nightwell die, it seems the stupidity of Tyrande has started to work its way into the nightborne, good to go.

yes the nightborne are being very very night elf like, it might be foolish of me, but I'm still hoping something would happen miraculously to. Thalyssra has done a very heroic thing there, very mature, but these guys need strength there. Hope is hard to kill xD

Its still a laughable and wishful thing to say only night elves will be interested in surumar now however, nightborne haven't forgotten what it means to be a magic society, (yet)

nor will they. The
nightborne are a magic society, i don't think given up the nightwell means they're giving up magic too, there is no need this time - but it shows they have the maturity and wisdom to give up great power, and in so doing no longer slaves to it, but truly masters of it worthy of wielding it rather than being wielded by it.

[Mace]

Its still a laughable and wishful thing to say only night elves will be interested in surumar now however, nightborne haven't forgotten what it means to be a magic society, (yet)

I will quote this from the official forums for you:

Face it, at the end of the day, we don't want the elves less magical, we want them more magical, that's the greatest asset and wonder to them.

And as such we want them to become good users of it as a people. Sure they'd be rogue ones like Azshara and others that would pop up from time to time, but they should be a magic filled group that use its force for good.

i love that wow made the night elves not evil but actually very good, they are excellent candidates to carry the arcane legacy forward with integrity and uprightness especially after such had and tragic tale of what they've gone through.

nothing will fulfill their story more than them overcoming their weakeness, learning from their mistakes and embracing their ancient heritage and birthright correctly. And with the priesthood and the highborne and their history they have been set up to be the perfect candidates to do so, I would not want them to descend into magicless society, but rather climb back to their heights and this time do it the right way.

sums up my view on the issue very well, this is exactly how I feel.

Hmm. The Nightwell being gone does change things. Drawing on its power demanded proximity, as you needed to be close to draw from it, or drink it through Arcwine, which isn't available outside Suramar. With the Nightwell gone, there is a greater likelihood of Nightborne actually moving out into the rest of the world.

If Blizzard hadn't stated they don't think the Neutral Race thing didn't work out, I'd say the Shal'dorei would be a perfect candidate for finding a place among both the Horde and Alliance. With some choosing a more natural path and going with the Night Elven way, same as the majority of the Night Elves did after the War of the Ancients. And some sticking to their culture and magic, seeking knowledge and power among their Blood Elven cousins.

I still think the Blood Elves would be interested in an alliance between the kingdoms of magic. And that Arcan'dor must remain a very interesting thing to see more of. There is a lot more things about subjects they love that the Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei could learn from each other. More so than Night Elves. But I am mildly biased as Horde.

YEs, and i feel this more a night elf thing and tailored fit for them especially as a means of enlarging and expanding their role and their depth, and imprtant part of contiued sotry developement of a major group like the night elves.

it's hard not to when you live with such a huge night elf fan - i use to be a lot more neutral, but Raven's enthusiasm is really contagious if sometimes overbearing - still i do feel the nightborne are far more suited and a match to the night elves, they stil feel a part of them, the ancient arcane part of them we see in the highborne of house shen'dralar, and their existence in such a large and prominent way does generate hope for the group, - the blood elves don't feel a core part of this story - sure have an intersting stake and could be given a role, but this struggle, this setting, these issues are things they've moved passed and not really thier zone, they aren't night creatures with moon and star fascination but these are their ancestors and as such they can at least understand them and empathize with them, offer some help, but they aren't the major players here, it feels much more a night elf thing

[Combatbutler]

YEs, and i feel this more a night elf thing and tailored fit for them especially as a means of enlarging and expanding their role and their depth, and imprtant part of contiued sotry developement of a major group like the night elves.

it's hard not to when you live with such a huge night elf fan - i use to be a lot more neutral, but Raven's enthusiasm is really contagious if sometimes overbearing - still i do feel the nightborne are far more suited and a match to the night elves, they stil feel a part of them, the ancient arcane part of them we see in the highborne of house shen'dralar, and their existence in such a large and prominent way does generate hope for the group, - the blood elves don't feel a core part of this story - sure have an intersting stake and could be given a role, but this struggle, this setting, these issues are things they've moved passed and not really thier zone, they aren't night creatures with moon and star fascination but these are their ancestors and as such they can at least understand them and empathize with them, offer some help, but they aren't the major players here, it feels much more a night elf thing

The nightborne aren't really suited for anyone at this point and I don't see this great night elf connection you speak of here, only a logical consequence of literally enslaving themselves to their well and its reckless abuse over the millennia, the nightwell was a local force and it could not be used similar to the the other wells wells, which powers are global and can be accessed any time anywhere.And in terms of culture for ten thousand years there was no fascination with the stars or the moon, because it did not exist in their small world and as such had no relevance anymore, right now their culture is aligning itself into a new direction, because the very core of their society will be gone.

But since their lifestyle is still in many ways the opposite of the night elves I can't see them walk down a similar path. So they should continue their journey on their own reshaping their magivcal society without the nightwell and start gathering magical knowledge around the world becoming the third major magical hub on the globe alongside Dalaran and Quel'thalas.

[ravenmoon]

The nightborne aren't really suited for anyone at this point and I don't see this great night elf connection you speak of here, only a logical consequence of literally enslaving themselves to their well and its reckless abuse over the millennia, the nightwell was a local force and it could not be used similar to the the other wells wells, which powers are global and can be accessed any time anywhere.And in terms of culture for ten thousand years there was no fascination with the stars or the moon, because it did not exist in their small world and as such had no relevance anymore, right now their culture is aligning itself into a new direction, because the very core of their society will be gone.

But since their lifestyle is still in many ways the opposite of the night elves I can't see them walk down a similar path. So they should continue their journey on their own reshaping their magivcal society without the nightwell and start gathering magical knowledge around the world becoming the third major magical hub on the globe alongside Dalaran and Quel'thalas.

a direction that is very similar to the post vigil night elf culture atm. You keep forgetting the night elves are using the arcane again. And the highborne and magic usage is growing amongst them, whiles priests and druids aren't rushing back to the arcane, those who picking it up are very enthusiastic about it.

They look more like the Highborne community that is already working with the night elves, and seeing that it is the highborne arcane culture they are based off finding a new path it seems very similar to the shen'dralar and it feels like it just slots in quite nicely as an extended and larger group of people.

Besides now moreso than ever they'd need allies. As they are giving up the nightwell, i don't see them going to the blood elves for the sunwell, but rather joining the highborne with the night elves, - i don't see any incentive not to, and much to. They are thinking and acting alike now.

- - - Updated - - -

oh and p.s. Combatbulter, this doens't negate all of what you said, they can continue journeying and discovering as their own people while still allied and part of a bigger whole. they are a separate people as are the hgihborne.

I don't see any problem with the night elves existing as collection of 3 different night elven races, the kaldorei, the quel'dorei and the shal'dorei - I wonder if the shal'dorei would change their name.

we don't even know if the sha'ldorei's modified form will now revert back to their original night elf form. Even if it does, they'd still be their own people, but you gotta admit, it would be hard not to associate them with the night elves. AFterall blood elf and high elf may be the same race but they are now two different peoples going in different directions, they may ally again in the future, but they'd be two different peoples of the same race.

[Combatbutler]

a direction that is very similar to the post vigil night elf culture atm. You keep forgetting the night elves are using the arcane again. And the highborne and magic usage is growing amongst them, whiles priests and druids aren't rushing back to the arcane, those who picking it up are very enthusiastic about it.

Not really, using the arcane is a far cry from the every day life of their people and their values. The nightborne are far more focused on their city life and their lifestyle in general, something which is in direct contrast to common night elves and why should they have closer ties to the highborne, with whom they had no interaction with for 10.000 years.

They look more like the Highborne community that is already working with the night elves, and seeing that it is the highborne arcane culture they are based off finding a new path it seems very similar to the shen'dralar and it feels like it just slots in quite nicely as an extended and larger group of people.

The nightborne don't feel like the common highborne anymore, nor does their culture point into that particular direction with heavily regulated use of the arcane, the nightborne seem more on a path akin to Dalaran and Quel'thalas a center of magic, but more akin to dalaran, since they no longer have an near infinite amount of arcane power at their fingertips.

Besides now moreso than ever they'd need allies. As they are giving up the nightwell, i don't see them going to the blood elves for the sunwell, but rather joining the highborne with the night elves, - i don't see any incentive not to, and much to. They are thinking and acting alike now.

So why should they tie themselves exclusively to the night elves, while they can easily get access to both Alliance and Horde and no giving up the nightwell does not mean they are thinking alike now.

[ravenmoon]

...
it's hard not to when you live with such a huge night elf fan - i use to be a lot more neutral, but Raven's enthusiasm is really contagious if sometimes overbearing - g

Well what can I say? I'm a sucker for the underdog, especially when they're exotically beautiful dark skinned, fairy tale fantasy variety .. and i'm not overbearing, just empassioned. This forum brings out the worse in me, cos people sometimes just rub the wrong way sometimes and get me going.

[Rhlor]

a direction that is very similar to the post vigil night elf culture atm. You keep forgetting the night elves are using the arcane again. And the highborne and magic usage is growing amongst them, whiles priests and druids aren't rushing back to the arcane, those who picking it up are very enthusiastic about it.

They look more like the Highborne community that is already working with the night elves, and seeing that it is the highborne arcane culture they are based off finding a new path it seems very similar to the shen'dralar and it feels like it just slots in quite nicely as an extended and larger group of people.

Besides now moreso than ever they'd need allies. As they are giving up the nightwell, i don't see them going to the blood elves for the sunwell, but rather joining the highborne with the night elves, - i don't see any incentive not to, and much to. They are thinking and acting alike now.

- - - Updated - - -

oh and p.s. Combatbulter, this doens't negate all of what you said, they can continue journeying and discovering as their own people while still allied and part of a bigger whole. they are a separate people as are the hgihborne.

I don't see any problem with the night elves existing as collection of 3 different night elven races, the kaldorei, the quel'dorei and the shal'dorei - I wonder if the shal'dorei would change their name.

we don't even know if the sha'ldorei's modified form will now revert back to their original night elf form. Even if it does, they'd still be their own people, but you gotta admit, it would be hard not to associate them with the night elves. AFterall blood elf and high elf may be the same race but they are now two different peoples going in different directions, they may ally again in the future, but they'd be two different peoples of the same race.

We can see how the nightborne are very impressed with the blood elves for their use of magic and abilities, Even elisande thought the blood elves could understand, that means that had positive expectations about them. The only bad thing from the point of view of elisande was that they were allied with the horde.
Even a moonguard wants to visit quel'thalas,I think it would be great that all elves can continue to have good relationships and fight together against Nzoth and the Naga in the future

[ravenmoon]

Not really, using the arcane is a far cry from the every day life of their people and their values. The nightborne are far more focused on their city life and their lifestyle in general, something which is in direct contrast to common night elves and why should they have closer ties to the highborne, with whom they had no interaction with for 10.000 years.

which is exactly like the Shen'dralar Highborne too. And why? these are people just like them, of all the elven groups, sects, sub-races, they are closest to the shen'dralar and the night elves, or have you forgotten most of the surviving kal'dorei are from Suramar and its city. They have the highborne for like mindedeness, the have the night elf for familial ties and also helping them big time both with the cure for the malady of the nightwell and liberating them - not to mention Thalyssra seems very like minded to Tyrande and the night elves, reminding you they are connected, if this doesn't predispose you more to that group or prove to you they are more likely then nothing will.

I can't say that is the direction they will go, they can go any direction, all I'm saying is it fits so well together and goes nicely. Maybe you're opposed to it merely because I'm so in favour of it

The nightborne don't feel like the common highborne anymore,

highborne are anything but common, and no they don't feel exactly like them, but they do a type of them, they are also growing and changing, the nightborne are the evidence of highborne that are changing, they're not going to remain the same.. too many times i keep hearing people analyse the night elves, the highborne as if they're a people who's entire circumstances for their previous lifestyle hasn't been completely changed by the events they actually played with them through (WC3 3rd war, cataclysm, ) off course the night elves and the shen'dralar are going to be changed and come off better too judging by how less and less of the nonsense that spoiled them is missing from both groups, the nightborne seem to be going that way too. Change happens, why do you expect he night elves to stay exclusively nature and arcane hating or banning when the lore has clearly indicated they are no longer in that frame of the Long vigil, it's different now

nor does their culture point into that particular direction with heavily regulated use of the arcane, the nightborne seem more on a path akin to Dalaran and Quel'thalas a center of magic, but more akin to dalaran, since they no longer have an near infinite amount of arcane power at their fingertips.

point in what direction? heavy regulation of magic? - the night elves do not do that. they are not regulating the highborne's use at all, they are trusting them, this is part of the condition of their alliance. What other direction? the night elves are having arcane play a much larger role, and are defenders of Azeroth, emerging from their isolation as defenders and not conquerors, the arcane was banned, but it no longer is.. they value responsible use of magic and work with those who use it.. do tell what direction is nightborne culture pointing too that doesn't already exist with and in the direction of the highborne who have also been humbled and are now working for good, also the night elves who are going the good arcane direction. the arcnae might not be prominent with all kaldorei but it is amongst the highborne. I don't get you

So why should they tie themselves exclusively to the night elves, while they can easily get access to both Alliance and Horde and no giving up the nightwell does not mean they are thinking alike now.

they don't have to tie themselves exclusively, it but i'd like them too - and i love the connections they have, - this is the night elf section of the lore we are dealing with when we see night elf, highborne, nightborne, naga, satyr etc - i like that. I also like the arcane side of the night elves, and that groups like the nightborne exist to show it in an amazing light and give hope for more of that side to be around alongside or elsewhere, but be around. Same with the highborne though they are so few, like the high elves.

[Combatbutler]

which is exactly like the Shen'dralar Highborne too. And why? these are people just like them, of all the elven groups, sects, sub-races, they are closest to the shen'dralar and the night elves, or have you forgotten most of the surviving kal'dorei are from Suramar and its city. They have the highborne for like mindedeness, the have the night elf for familial ties and also helping them big time both with the cure for the malady of the nightwell and liberating them - not to mention Thalyssra seems very like minded to Tyrande and the night elves, reminding you they are connected, if this doesn't predispose you more to that group or prove to you they are more likely then nothing will.

No the Shen'dralar out of all the highborne groups were the most selfish and vile, they have far more in common with Elisande and her ilk than the average nightborne that had to suffer the consequences and blood ties are not night elf exclusive either. I don't really see a particular strong connection between Thalyssra and Tyrande to be honest.

I can't say that is the direction they will go, they can go any direction, all I'm saying is it fits so well together and goes nicely. Maybe you're opposed to it merely because I'm so in favour of it

I just can't see it, unless the nighborne give up everything they were for the last 10.000 years which seems unlikely.

highborne are anything but common, and no they don't feel exactly like them, but they do a type of them, they are also growing and changing, the nightborne are the evidence of highborne that are changing, they're not going to remain the same.. too many times i keep hearing people analyse the night elves, the highborne as if they're a people who's entire circumstances for their previous lifestyle hasn't been completely changed by the events they actually played with them through (WC3 3rd war, cataclysm, ) off course the night elves and the shen'dralar are going to be changed and come off better too judging by how less and less of the nonsense that spoiled them is missing from both groups, the nightborne seem to be going that way too. Change happens, why do you expect he night elves to stay exclusively nature and arcane hating or banning when the lore has clearly indicated they are no longer in that frame of the Long vigil, it's different now

Changes happen but not so drastic changes, the common highborne is always tied to magic and its use, it is a way of life they were unwilling to give up, even if it meant death. The night elves on the other hand put everything on coexisting with nature, they dislike typical city life and all that comes with it. The shen'dralar are no longer in a position in which they truly can determine their own fate they have butchered each other too much for that, they truly need the night elves for a better future, the nightborne do not need such close ties.

point in what direction? heavy regulation of magic? - the night elves do not do that.they are not regulating the highborne's use at all, they are trusting them, this is part of the condition of their alliance.

Yes they do there are no spell zones in darnassus for example. It is mentioned in Wolfheart.

What other direction? the night elves are having arcane play a much larger role, and are defenders of Azeroth, emerging from their isolation as defenders and not conquerors, the arcane was banned, but it no longer is.. they value responsible use of magic and work with those who use it.. do tell what direction is nightborne culture pointing too that doesn't already exist with and in the direction of the highborne who have also been humbled and are now working for good, also the night elves who are going the good arcane direction. the arcnae might not be prominent with all kaldorei but it is amongst the highborne. I don't get you

They are on the rails of magical focused kingdom, similar to Dalaran and Quel'thalas not one focused on the natural lifestyle, with a tiny fraction of arcane here and there.

they don't have to tie themselves exclusively, it but i'd like them too - and i love the connections they have, - this is the night elf section of the lore we are dealing with when we see night elf, highborne, nightborne, naga, satyr etc - i like that. I also like the arcane side of the night elves, and that groups like the nightborne exist to show it in an amazing light and give hope for more of that side to be around alongside or elsewhere, but be around. Same with the highborne though they are so few, like the high elves.

They owe a debt to all of Azeroth ,the Kirin Tor, Night and Blood elves in particular so shoving them into a specific group would be a colossal waste it would be more interesting if they become another great hub for magical learning in Azeroth with ties to most factions.

[ravenmoon]

No the Shen'dralar out of all the highborne groups were the most selfish and vile, they have far more in common with Elisande and her ilk than the average nightborne that had to suffer the consequences and blood ties are not night elf exclusive either. I don't really see a particular strong connection between Thalyssra and Tyrande to be honest.

you mean from a moral point of view? They certainly match up weill with the night elves on that front.. and are you not judging all the Shen'dralar by the actions of Totheldrinn who was warped by the demonic influence? Estulan, Evenshade and co are referred to as uncorrupted highborne, and the night elves send you to aid them as they work for the good of all night elf kind. This is a major indication that they are like Thalyssra and her rebels, highborne who did not fall into evil... not flawless but even in that there is similarity because they also suffered seirous trauma getting out of the daze under the arcane power they provided for themselves from the demon.

I just can't see it, unless the nighborne give up everything they were for the last 10.000 years which seems unlikely.

what I don't see is how you can't see that the nightborne have to give up anything to partner with the night elves. unless you misunderstand what i'm trying to say. The highborne have not given up anything. not an iota of magical control mastery, nor their culture in working with the night elves. The druids and the sentinels don't give up anything when they work with each other either, but each maintains there own ways. The druids living in the wilds, the priests in the temples, just like that you will see the highborne in the cities. The way i see, it the nightborne will continue in Suramar, and count themselves part of the night elven people. They will govern themselvs and have their leader sit at the table of leadership when matters on how the night elves should act are decided.

///////////////////////they will make decisions for themsleves and do their own business as their own group. the night elves will have no trouble trusting them after their display in 7.0 and i think both people will be glad to have the others back. The nightborne will be turned to for magical suppport, the druids for nature support , the priesthood for spiritual support. Each group will have their own organization and fighting force, but they will freely interact, likely spending much time visting each other.. after all they have family and friends between themselves now that they recognize they are like minded.

There is no reason for hostility and every reason for friendship. Friendship doesn't mean marrying and you move into my place or i move into yours. Its an alliance that is tighter than with outsdiers like humans or even further removed kin like high elves or even further, blood elves.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Other than your own take on things, there is nothing really to say that the Nightborne are going to be tightly bound with the Night elves and leave out the Blood elves. Tyrande and the night elves didn't save the Nightborne alone. The blood elves are closer to the Nightborne, they understand magic and showed themselves quite capable of handling Nightborne magic in the Surumar quest chains. To say the Nightborne would have no interest in the Blood elves because they are removed kin is a very silly argument considering the Night elves at this point are just as removed. All in all, its very wishful thinking on your end.

[Combatbutler]

you mean from a moral point of view? They certainly match up weill with the night elves on that front.. and are you not judging all the Shen'dralar by the actions of Totheldrinn who was warped by the demonic influence?

Every surviving Shen'dralar who is older than 1.600 years is guilty, they were all aware of what was happening and and culled their fellow Shen'dralar to maintain their immortality, it was not the prince alone and every last one of them was exposed to Immol'thar and as such should bear a mark of corruption.

Estulan, Evenshade and co are referred to as uncorrupted highborne, and the night elves send you to aid them as they work for the good of all night elf kind. This is a major indication that they are like Thalyssra and her rebels, highborne who did not fall into evil... not flawless but even in that there is similarity because they also suffered seirous trauma getting out of the daze under the arcane power they provided for themselves from the demon.

They didn't made the choice to give up Immolthar or their power in general it was taken from them by Playable characters and as a consequence they reached outwards in cata.

what I don't see is how you can't see that the nightborne have to give up anything to partner with the night elves. unless you misunderstand what i'm trying to say. The highborne have not given up anything. not an iota of magical control mastery, nor their culture in working with the night elves. The druids and the sentinels don't give up anything when they work with each other either, but each maintains there own ways. The druids living in the wilds, the priests in the temples, just like that you will see the highborne in the cities. The way i see, it the nightborne will continue in Suramar, and count themselves part of the night elven people. They will govern themselvs and have their leader sit at the table of leadership when matters on how the night elves should act are decided.

Because magic is regulated in night elf society far more than it is in the nightborne one, the night elves push for a life in nature and being humble, which is in stark contrast to the nightborne lifestyle, with nigh unlimited possibilities thanks to the arcane. So they should remain an independent nation, because these two have a very different outlook on civilization.

///////////////////////they will make decisions for themsleves and do their own business as their own group. the night elves will have no trouble trusting them after their display in 7.0 and i think both people will be glad to have the others back. The nightborne will be turned to for magical suppport, the druids for nature support , the priesthood for spiritual support. Each group will have their own organization and fighting force, but they will freely interact, likely spending much time visting each other.. after all they have family and friends between themselves now that they recognize they are like minded.

Who cares what the night elves believe, it shouldn't matter to the nightborne, the night elves offer nothing in particular that the nightborne cannot get anywhere else, there are other races out there which shares their blood, there are other arcane orientated nations etc. why do you intend to literally push them into the corner of the night elves? The nightborne intend to step up and get involved into the world and since they have ties to both factions now they should do so as neutral as spossible it is in their best interest, to avoid a strong allegiance.

There is no reason for hostility and every reason for friendship. Friendship doesn't mean marrying and you move into my place or i move into yours. Its an alliance that is tighter than with outsdiers like humans or even further removed kin like high elves or even further, blood elves.

How is it a boon that many night elves came from suramar 10.000 years ago? If Tyrande is any indication it might actually be a liability, they will have to prove themselves to all of them, they left even more bitter scars than the Highborne under Dath'remar, because unlike those they did not fight alongside them and stayed put under their bubble and the first thing their leadership did was ally with the legion once they came back.

The Nightborne narrowly avoided disaster, similar to the blood elves under Kael'thas and the night elves don't trust them either, despite putting down their prince for his treachery.

[ravenmoon]

Other than your own take on things, there is nothing really to say that the Nightborne are going to be tightly bound with the Night elves and leave out the Blood elves..

indeed, that's just my take on it.. i'm not sure if people realize that. All i've done is given my take on it and tried to explain why I think it will be so. Perhaps the way i say it makes it look like i'm declaring or demanding that it will be so, i'm not, ... i'm trying to be persuasive because to me it makes sense to go down that way (to me) and it's exciting too, as i've waited for more of the arcane night (Dark) elven lore since i first fouIt doesn't nor has it ever meant that it will be so, the most logical or exciting direction isn't always taken (and the latter is usually subjective) personally i've just tried to capture the spirit of the wonder that made night elves so exciting and attractive to me and longed to see it play a prominent role and expanded on, and what they've shown in legion seems to be the way...

but i certainly recognise blizzard may want to do that or may have something else in mind for better or worse, more exciting or less exciting - i'm sure like all of us we'd put up with the disappointment or jubiliation - elf haters would not like anything less than the annihilation of the whole lot, night elf haters may want no get back .. we all have our desires and wants. i'm just talking about what i find most exciting.

The blood elves are closer to the Nightborne, they understand magic and showed themselves quite capable of handling Nightborne magic in the Surumar quest chains. To say the Nightborne would have no interest in the Blood elves because they are removed kin is a very silly argument considering the Night elves at this point are just as removed. All in all, its very wishful thinking on your end.

I hope you consider that by disagreeing with you I'm not invalidating your point, it's not a fight or competition, you have a fair point, and the blood elves are closer to the nightborne in some respects, those respects are the expertise of magic.

I just disagree it makes their bonds with them tighter over the night elves, because the nightborne are even closer to the highborne who are with the night elves, effectively for all intents being evolved or mutated/cursed (from whatever ) version of night elven highborne, still in that highborne culture, and it's not all, the night elves of the kaldorei though in a non-arcane dominant culture, still have many ties to the nightborne - being family and friends and fellow country men since it's the same generation, sharing the same nocturnal, night culture, moon and star kinship, and evidently share the same tone and morals as we see Thalyssra today. These are the reasons i don't agree that they are closer to the blood elves overall.

Night elf society now is kaldorei and quel'dorei of the Shen'dralar. what you say holds merit but it's only part of the picture, when you expand it, you see these guys are much closer, i mean, the nightborne city is the ancient night elf city perfectly preserved and tehy are the night elven citizens that remained there, changed in apeparance but not in ideals, just like the highborne, but unlike the night elves. They don't need to merge cultures, but they have a basis for friendship especially with the budding arcane community in the night elves, and the shared history both groups all hold remorse for now - remorse for reckless and unctorlled magical usage and the bargain made by their Queen. She was queen to them all, and these are the ones that deal with that the most as they are still around.

Notice how the effects of queen azshara, the higborne, the night elf empire aren't really that prominent in blood elf matters, it's relevant to them, but it's not what they are about, focusing on or dwelling on that's ancient history to them, their ancestors, for the night elves, nightborne and highborne this is their lives, not their ancient ancestors, they lived this, partook in it, etc,

- - - Updated - - -

Every surviving Shen'dralar who is older than 1.600 years is guilty, they were all aware of what was happening and and culled their fellow Shen'dralar to maintain their immortality, it was not the prince alone and every last one of them was exposed to Immol'thar and as such should bear a mark of corruption.

which makes them even more like the nightborne, for the nightborne sinned as well, both as highborne then recently as nightborne, but the shen'dralar ones that come to the night elves show their willing ness to overcome, they share that in common, and share the same with the night elves, who were part of that empire too, and never stood against the queen or stopped it, enjoying all hte benefits of the crazy over use of magic, until it was all gone, and like the nightborne just did, rather than cling to the past, they let go and try to make amends, in so doing they have hope to forge a bright future, and one that includes the arcane for their willingness to surrender it is what makes them genuine masters of it not mastered by it. As such they qualify themselves by their resolve to be it's stewards and handle it - even though many chose the priesthood and druidsm, those that choose the arcane do so as true masters, not slaves of it.

This is they share because they have all gone through that process - [this is only with respect to that particular point - there is more ofc]

- - - Updated - - -

They didn't made the choice to give up Immolthar or their power in general it was taken from them by Playable characters and as a consequence they reached outwards in cata.

.

They reached outwards before Immol'thar is taken down, because we see them join the night elves before cataclysm and forging an alliance, leaving the zealots in Dire Maul, they then send us into Dire Maul in cataclysm to kill Immol'thar - the quest is given by Estulan himself as he seeks to restore it. He is confirmed both by the druids in Feralas and the sane ancient in the east wing as been uncorrupted and desiring a good thing because Eldre'thalas can be restored as a great bastion of arcana, which is good. The ancient that makes this comment and Estulan would both remember the days before the madness when the place shone as beacon of progress and hope, and it belies extra information and deatil that we have not been shared. We can assume that at least some of the shen'dralar or there were times in it's past when it was amazing and useful. For a steward of nature to agree and support should tell you something. The lore poitns to when the arcane and nature worked hand in hand. And shows as that the arcane source amplifies life and nature - (moonwells etc) so there were good applications of the two together that were really good for this world before the cancer of arrogance and addiction took root.

- - - Updated - - -

How is it a boon that many night elves came from suramar 10.000 years ago? If Tyrande is any indication it might actually be a liability, they will have to prove themselves to all of them, they left even more bitter scars than the Highborne under Dath'remar, because unlike those they did not fight alongside them and stayed put under their bubble and the first thing their leadership did was ally with the legion once they came back.

The Nightborne narrowly avoided disaster, similar to the blood elves under Kael'thas and the night elves don't trust them either, despite putting down their prince for his treachery.

A boon? it's a familial tie, cos family and friends would be shared, people who knew each other and worked, lived together, separated by the unfortunate events that led both groups to isolation. Suspicion because of how things were left and the handling of magic which was the cause of such a great schism between the high elves and night elves is not unsurprising. But given how the highborne and night elves can make up, and given how very upright, noble and responsibly faultless Thalyssra has been epitomizing that yes the nightborne are still very much holding within them the nobility and grace that charactize the night elf people of which they are from , just altered in physical form.

This ties them closer. THe blood elves experienced what the night elves experienced in greater measure, the nightborne have that similarity with the blood elves, but it's also there with both the night elves and the highborne, so it is not closer to the blood elves more than it is not the night elves on that particular point.

- - - Updated - - -

Who cares what the night elves believe, it shouldn't matter to the nightborne, the night elves offer nothing in particular that the nightborne cannot get anywhere else, there are other races out there which shares their blood, there are other arcane orientated nations etc. why do you intend to literally push them into the corner of the night elves? The nightborne intend to step up and get involved into the world and since they have ties to both factions now they should do so as neutral as spossible it is in their best interest, to avoid a strong allegiance.
.

off course it matters what the night elves think, because we are making a judgement on how they are tied together, shared experience, views, personalities all matter in this, and for every similarity you can find in the blood elf camp, you can find in the night elf groups with the highborne in them plus more in additional.

it was never that the blood elves don't share a similarity, it was never that, it was always that the night elves share much more. And that is no guarantee that will cause the two groups to ally, but it does make it look more plausiable.

[Deleted]

I think that night elves arent interesting anymore, except Illidan, which doesnt has much of its left on him.

Back on WC3 they were cool as hell, they were ruthless, they were a new way of seeing an elven race. But through the years their development moved towards the typicall elven races of other universes, plus terrible character development of Tyrande and Malfurion, who is just pathetic in Legion.

For all these reasons I think that we have lost all interest in them, I hope that their cool xenofobous version returns someday.

I am sick of Illidan being all over the place. While I am more a fan of Sin'dorei than the Kal'dorei, I would surely want to have more focus on the Night Elves than we have had before. Just like most Horde races have been neglected because of ORCS!, same happened to most Alliance races because of HUMANS!, and this is a shame.

Especially the part about the return of Arcanists to the Night Elves was a great opportunity, and it was left completely unused. Instead, they turned Staghelm into a raid boss. Okay, I had a feeling of satisfaction killing him, because I have never liked this character, but still, there could have been so much more.

I have the feeling that the main focus on raiding in this game is also the main reason why we cannot get cool storylines and lore in game. These are best told by long questlines like we have in Suramar, and Blizzard wastes such opportunities most of the time. Of course, such questlines somehow undermine the replayability of the game (I am also an Altoholic), at least when you don't have several to chose from. But with a greater focus on storytelling they could have had different plot lines so you could vary your experience if you would like it.

Besides that, I think that the "cool xenophobous version" will not return that soon. Such a race would not function well as a player race which is intertwined with other races in an Alliance. Besides that, both Tyrande and Malfurion have disappointed me greatly in the Val'sharah questline. Ancient, powerful leaders played by Xavius like some dumb, emo teenagers... :/

[Combatbutler]

Night elf society now is kaldorei and quel'dorei of the Shen'dralar. what you say holds merit but it's only part of the picture, when you expand it, you see these guys are much closer, i mean, the nightborne city is the ancient night elf city perfectly preserved and tehy are the night elven citizens that remained there, changed in apeparance but not in ideals, just like the highborne, but unlike the night elves. They don't need to merge cultures, but they have a basis for friendship especially with the budding arcane community in the night elves, and the shared history both groups all hold remorse for now - remorse for reckless and unctorlled magical usage and the bargain made by their Queen. She was queen to them all, and these are the ones that deal with that the most as they are still around.

The highborne have little to no influence in modern night elf society they are just there and teach new magi that is pretty much it so they won't really tie anyone together most night elves barely tolerate them as it is. The nightborne continued to live in their ancient city, but they still fundamentally changed because of their nightwell and the shield they created, they developed their own language and customs.

Notice how the effects of queen azshara, the higborne, the night elf empire aren't really that prominent in blood elf matters, it's relevant to them, but it's not what they are about, focusing on or dwelling on that's ancient history to them, their ancestors, for the night elves, nightborne and highborne this is their lives, not their ancient ancestors, they lived this, partook in it, etc,

This is false, it might be true that many nightborne remember the days before the sundering, but the vast majority of the night elves that lived during the war of the ancients are dead by now.

- - - Updated - - -

which makes them even more like the nightborne, for the nightborne sinned as well, both as highborne then recently as nightborne, but the shen'dralar ones that come to the night elves show their willing ness to overcome, they share that in common, and share the same with the night elves, who were part of that empire too, and never stood against the queen or stopped it, enjoying all hte benefits of the crazy over use of magic, until it was all gone, and like the nightborne just did, rather than cling to the past, they let go and try to make amends, in so doing they have hope to forge a bright future, and one that includes the arcane for their willingness to surrender it is what makes them genuine masters of it not mastered by it. As such they qualify themselves by their resolve to be it's stewards and handle it - even though many chose the priesthood and druidsm, those that choose the arcane do so as true masters, not slaves of it.

This is they share because they have all gone through that process - [this is only with respect to that particular point - there is more ofc]

The Shend'ralar did not surrender the arcane, they gained readmission into night elf society, which is filled to the brim with arcane and moonwells are pretty much all over the place, they are now surrounded by more arcane power than before, even though they aren't really allowed to use it, they don't have to worry about their addiction. Giving up a well of power does not make you master of the arcane, the blood elves did the same once, destroying their well. The consequences were dire and set Kael'thas on a very dark path. The only reason the nightborne have the luxury of truly letting their well go is because they got a cure for magical addiction, something that wasn't known for many years, otherwise they would have never given up their well.

They reached outwards before Immol'thar is taken down, because we see them join the night elves before cataclysm and forging an alliance, leaving the zealots in Dire Maul, they then send us into Dire Maul in cataclysm to kill Immol'thar - the quest is given by Estulan himself as he seeks to restore it. He is confirmed both by the druids in Feralas and the sane ancient in the east wing as been uncorrupted and desiring a good thing because Eldre'thalas can be restored as a great bastion of arcana, which is good. The ancient that makes this comment and Estulan would both remember the days before the madness when the place shone as beacon of progress and hope, and it belies extra information and deatil that we have not been shared. We can assume that at least some of the shen'dralar or there were times in it's past when it was amazing and useful. For a steward of nature to agree and support should tell you something. The lore poitns to when the arcane and nature worked hand in hand. And shows as that the arcane source amplifies life and nature - (moonwells etc) so there were good applications of the two together that were really good for this world before the cancer of arrogance and addiction took root.

It still doesn't change the fact that they are miserable bastards, the whole lot of them due to their actions of the past, these are still the same elves that gladly killed their kin for power and immortality and did nothing for 1.600 years.

A boon? it's a familial tie, cos family and friends would be shared, people who knew each other and worked, lived together, separated by the unfortunate events that led both groups to isolation. Suspicion because of how things were left and the handling of magic which was the cause of such a great schism between the high elves and night elves is not unsurprising. But given how the highborne and night elves can make up, and given how very upright, noble and responsibly faultless Thalyssra has been epitomizing that yes the nightborne are still very much holding within them the nobility and grace that charactize the night elf people of which they are from , just altered in physical form.

You are aware that there are blood elves who can trace their roots back to that region as well? And again the vast majority of night elves that actually lived back then are dead and others might not forgive their kin for abandoning them to the legion, what the nightborne did to them is worse than the split between high and blood elves and those two beat the crap out of each other, despite the fact that they were part of the same kingdom two decades ago.

This ties them closer. THe blood elves experienced what the night elves experienced in greater measure, the nightborne have that similarity with the blood elves, but it's also there with both the night elves and the highborne, so it is not closer to the blood elves more than it is not the night elves on that particular point.

I never argued that they should be closer the blood elves, again they should stay away from the others and remain their own independent people with ties to all of them, not forge some alliance that would put them in a specific corner.

off course it matters what the night elves think, because we are making a judgement on how they are tied together, shared experience, views, personalities all matter in this, and for every similarity you can find in the blood elf camp, you can find in the night elf groups with the highborne in them plus more in additional.

As far as we have seen the highborne don't give a crap about the nightborne, because they haven't been involved at all. So why should they count for closer ties, despite the fact that they have no interaction whatsoever.

it was never that the blood elves don't share a similarity, it was never that, it was always that the night elves share much more. And that is no guarantee that will cause the two groups to ally, but it does make it look more plausiable.

How so? What is it that really binds them together? Because I haven't seen a temple of elune in the nightborne territory, I haven't heard that they worshipp her, they even lost their nocturnal ways, because under the shield day and night did not matter anymore, there was no sunlight,moonlight or starlight, just their barrier and the nightwell, which became the center of their world.

All I see is a new breed of elf that walks its own path, just like high/blood elves Naga etc. before them.

[Rhlor]

@ravenmoon Prince Tortheldrin is alive and still in command in eldre'thalas

- - - Updated - - -
@ravenmoon
Tyrande is still very rude to the shal'dorei


Liadrin is more comprehensive and friendly