What made classic wow better than current?

[Doomchicken]

Or it might just be the lack of interest in succeeding at something which can't be failed.

No wonder statistically speaking no one players on the pirate servers.

[Crookids]

Never played Dark Souls I see?

That's where you completely miss my point. If it was like Dark Souls, sure. If you've played Dark Souls, which I am sure you have, you know that you do have plenty of utility. Most of it having to do with real-time hand-eye coordination or strategy (besides abilities, items etc.) due to it being action based.

However, if Dark Souls was simply being careful to pull one mob and stand there while your character auto attacks, pressing two buttons and then on to the next -- you would be more inclined to make the comparison. Comparing Vanilla leveling to Dark Souls is a terrible analogy. Vanilla leveling is mundane -- not difficult. You just have to be careful not to pull a pack or an elite. There is not sudden influx of strategy or skill needed to level. Vanilla was about who could last the long grind to level cap.

This is my point. If you played Vanilla you would remember that people were never impressed you were level 60 because of how much skill it took to get there. It just took so long that people knew you put the time in. I remember leveling and people telling me to stick with it and not jump to other classes because it will be worth it. This is because not reaching level cap because of how boring it got or how much people wanted to try other classes from getting bored of the same actions / unbalance was a common occurrence.

It really is case and point that either people cannot separate the nostalgia from Vanilla or simply didn't play it during that time.

[Echo of Soul]

Or it might just be the lack of interest in succeeding at something which can't be failed.

You know what, you're probably right. That just might be the reason why I find leveling in vanilla to be so much more engaging than anything outside of raiding in Legion.

[Crookids]

Pinnacle of engaging gameplay it makes lfr look like most fun thing ever.

Hahaha, /thread

[Echo of Soul]

However, if Dark Souls was simply being careful to pull one mob and stand there while your character auto attacks, pressing two buttons and then on to the next -- you would be more inclined to make the comparison.

You don't have to level a warrior if that type of combat isn't for you.

[Akka]

You just have to be careful not to pull a pack or an elite.

That alone already blows anything in Legion leveling out of the water.

Fighting a single mob one on one on-level in Vanilla was rarely dangerous (save for rare or when you started to attempt elite), but that's the whole point, often you would get an add, or a linked group, or a patrol, or would aggro a mob when you were low on health. And then you would have to manage it, and you had the tools to pull it off, and pulling it off was gratifying.

That's far more than can be said about leveling since WotLk.

[Noxina]

Vanilla had two things that I remember was better: The feel of something new, and the community on each realm actually mattered. I was known in the PvP section of my realm, so I got invited to Premade BGs instant, while a friend of mine was known in the PvE section, and could get into any guild pretty much. I don't got that feeling anymore, I know NO ONE except those in my guild.

Also the feel of something new, is the best.

[Vash The Stampede]

Map size is irrelevant when shit like barrens and azshara existed - literally half of these maps were empty space to autorun through.

I actually liked those parts of the game. Not everything has to have noise or busy work.

Difficult leveling my ass, my first character was a paladin and i literally had no clue that some classes had to *gasp*, eat and drink after killng 1-5 mobs. I pulled as much shit as i wanted and dealt with it easily.

You mean like this? This is Zalgradis showing how his needle spec works in PvE, which is impressive considering how easily one can die to that many mobs. It's nothing for a Legion Paladin but so are most mobs.

You may also say that missing your attack 4 times in a row is somehow adds to the challenge.

Yes it means you needed to spec into precision.

no one does that. If they do - fine, that's up to them, but that's not playing the game, it's finishing world 1-1, watching 1-2 on youtube and quitting.

You guys are making this into a homework assignment. One thing many here don't realize is that in most games people rarely finish them.

• The Walking Dead: Season 1, Episode 1 - 66%
• Mass Effect 2 - 56%
• BioShock Infinite - 53%
• Batman: Arkham City - 47%
• Portal - 47%
• Mass Effect 3 - 42%
• The Walking Dead: Season 1, Episode 5 - 39%
• The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 32%
• Borderlands 2 - 30%

Should it be such a shock that players find themselves wanting to not continue after finishing LFR?

Because you already leveled dozen of characters and do not want to spend a day on leveling another one? You know, like most of players, who played for a lot would do?

I can see not wanting to level a 10th character since you've already experienced the content, but nowadays it's more of a nuisance than a wonderful experience, even for the first time. Without a challenge it's repetitive, and without proper rewards it's a waste of time. Two things modern WoW does poorly. Gotta love killing rares in WoD and getting an item that basically says will only work in this expansion.

No you couldn't, you would run OOM after every pull and would make a run into a 2 hours nightmare with 10 minutes corpseruns and toilet breaks.

Unless you spec into Illumination and call it a day. Remember that talent would return 100% mana back when you critically healed. Going any deeper into Holy would only get you 5% more spell crit, and Holy Shock. Honestly if I'm picking up Holy Shock it's to be a shockadin, and not used for healing. The rest of the talent points could easily be dumped into Ret. The only bad thing from this is that you miss out on Precision and Kings which is under the Prot tree.

It wasn't, because you wanted any piece of gear regardless of it being plate or tier set with crit and int on it.

Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 2.5 armor sets for Paladins all have melee and healing stats on them. Hard to believe but Blizzard changed the stats on these armor sets since Cata I think to have int only. Compared to Druids and Priests where they didn't gain any increased +spell damage on their gear and you can see why it was good to play a Paladin. And remember back then spell damage and healing were different stats. Judgement armor had both, hence why a lot of Paladins would run around as a Shockadin with that armor.

Incentives are there and they are strong. It's just people entitled that blizzard should make the game for them just because they pay a fee. If you don't like character progression and any other side-activity - that' fine, it means that the game is not for you, but for majority of WoW players - getting their hands on that high-ilvl Elisandre trinket will give them much satisfaction.

And how many players are doing Mythic raids? Getting that satisfying high-ilvl Elisandre trinket? Part of the problem with modern WoW is that all that work getting that gear means absolutely nothing in a few months. You're back to vendoring your old gear, and getting the next shinny loot. This wasn't a problem in Vanilla because gear didn't scale linearly. Main reason to get gear was to get resistances. This kept Power Creep to increase slowly. Unlike today where power creep happens so fast that a stat reset every so often is required.

And you yourself say that you used to do activity that you don't enjoy (PvE raids) to do activity you enjoy (PvP) and praise the times when you had to do that? In modern wow you had to do less and less shit you don't want to do - you can progress you character the way you want to, you can gear the character the way you want to. PvP now is way more fair and engaging than it was before, and yet you complain about it (IMO you just liked to be OPed and killing other players because of your gear, but that's just my opinion)

Absolutely and there's nothing wrong with that. In fact that's the entire appeal of Dark Souls. Basically it's all about finding every advantage there is to overpower your opponents. At the same time, there's also the appeal to countering such players. That's what makes a game fun.

Getting gear for PvP wasn't incentive to raid. Even back in vanilla people complained about it so much that blizzard had to make honour system. And still people tend to use PvE gear because it was easier to obtain than doing PvP, yes, people wanted shortcuts to easy victories in PvP, shocking, i know.

That was TBC and that's a discussion for another time. And believe me, that wasn't a good thing, especially from the perspective of a Ret Paladin.

off course you think, because you've been playing ret. WoW was the most balanced when my class was OP.

And Paladins were immediately nerfed when the expansion was released. But WOTLK wasn't the only time Ret Paladins were OP. Remember the Pre-TBC patch that made them Gods? So much so that Blizzard nerfed Crusader Strike to 10 seconds thus making it useless until they un-nerfed it later? I remember raiding as Ret after the patch was released and I still wasn't like #1 on meters. But people complained and nerfs go out. Fun fact at some point the Paladin population was so bad that it was the least played class in the game during TBC.

No they don't. You sit there and expect content being given to you, sitting there and yelling "amuse me, game!" at the screen. At least that's how you sound like. And it confuses me, because, well, with attitude like this you probably wouldn't make it to max level in vanilla.

I do want to be amused CAUSE THAT'S WHY I BOUGHT THE STUPID GAME.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11
srsly ret paladins are not right and guilds just sacrifice their dps for something else. If you dps as ret is jack - that's problem between the keyboard and the chair.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11

Wait, are Ret Paladins at the top now in Legion?

There are plenty of unbiased evidence of vanilla being inferior to legion, simply number-wise.

You can't claim to not have a bias and say that Legion is just simply superior.

[Ielenia]

It was easier than those games but not easy in an absolute sense.

If that was the case, then by all measures, everyone would have been at level cap and outfitted in purples by the launch of TBC and they were not. So by that standard, vanilla did not make it easy to hit end game content and "finish it".

WoW was more casual/easier than the other MMOs at the time. However, as time progressed, not only more MMOs have popped up, but the new MMOs were designed with casual players in mind more than their predecessors, so WoW had to adapt to stay relevant, increasing its own accessibility.

The level of skill and commitment required to get to that level was far beyond the average player.

"Skill"? Skill? Please. I'll accept it if you said just 'commitment', but 'skill'? Nope. Raid fights nowadays are orders of magnitude more complex than they were back in vanilla.

[Noxina]

The level of difficulty in the game.

What difficulty? The grind? Because that was all it was. Wanted to PvE? Go grind resist gear. Wanted to PvP? Go grind honor in AV 12 hours/day if you wanted to get a high rank. Needed gold to buy the PvP gear? Go grind Tyrs Hand for some cloth and raw gold.

[drbatman]

I remember in early wow, vanilla/tbc, the 'leetness' of the top server guilds was awesome. They were decked in gear you had no fucking chance in hell of ever getting, hell you didnt even have a chance to even step foot in the instance to get it. My server had 1 guild clearing SSC/Hyjal/BT/Sunwell, they had a tank, full geared out T6 illidan shield ect, a fuckin pimp. He sat outside Aldor bank everyday. I remember thinking 'DAMN!'

Then I think in wotlk they made tier gear like welfare stamps, and the scrubbiest alt tank on the server and the #1 tank look identical.

There is re-colors now, but it isnt even close to the same.


The divide from regular player to high end player was real (and healthy) now everybody has gear jammed down their throats.

[Soikona]

I remember in early wow, vanilla/tbc, the 'leetness' of the top server guilds was awesome. They were decked in gear you had no fucking chance in hell of ever getting, hell you didnt even have a chance to even step foot in the instance to get it. My server had 1 guild clearing SSC/Hyjal/BT/Sunwell, they had a tank, full geared out T6 illidan shield ect, a fuckin pimp. He sat outside Aldor bank everyday. I remember thinking 'DAMN!'

Then I think in wotlk they made tier gear like welfare stamps, and the scrubbiest alt tank on the server and the #1 tank look identical.

There is re-colors now, but it isnt even close to the same.


The divide from regular player to high end player was real (and healthy) now everybody has gear jammed down their throats.

Sounds like your problem is with transmog.

[Saucerian]

It hit a sweet spot of challenge, investment, and reward that modern human laziness precludes ever returning to, for any current game wanting to be successful.

[Vash The Stampede]

That's where you completely miss my point. If it was like Dark Souls, sure. If you've played Dark Souls, which I am sure you have, you know that you do have plenty of utility. Most of it having to do with real-time hand-eye coordination or strategy (besides abilities, items etc.) due to it being action based.

However, if Dark Souls was simply being careful to pull one mob and stand there while your character auto attacks, pressing two buttons and then on to the next -- you would be more inclined to make the comparison. Comparing Vanilla leveling to Dark Souls is a terrible analogy. Vanilla leveling is mundane -- not difficult. You just have to be careful not to pull a pack or an elite. There is not sudden influx of strategy or skill needed to level. Vanilla was about who could last the long grind to level cap.

If you choose a Paladin then yes it's auto attack based. Also I'm not saying Paladins were well done in Vanilla either. And yes the combat is more engaging in Dark Souls, but the concept is still the same. Pull too many mobs and you're dead. Every move you make could be your last. You have to carefully plan how you want to approach enemies.

BTW Paladins were so poorly done in Vanilla that it even inspired people to make videos on the subject. Like Does Blizzard Really Hate Paladins?

It really is case and point that either people cannot separate the nostalgia from Vanilla or simply didn't play it during that time.

And I'm telling you that Nostalgia plays a minor roll in peoples interests in Vanilla. Long Writer also has a video series on this as well, and I mostly agree with this statements.

[Chaelexi]

The only thing I miss from classic WoW is the community it had but there is no way of bringing that back. The younger generation needs things now or they move on to the next source of a dopamine high, this is why we have achievements, LFG, LFR, epics for all and everything else is that the shorter attention span generation needs to feed the dopamine addiction they have and having work to form groups for raid, dungeons, etc are all products of the next generation of gamers which makes up a portion of the community.

[Heathy]

we have those things because ppl asked for them, ppl asked for easier ways of grouping and thats what we got. epics have always been for all, ppl were just too bone idle to bother in the beginning. standing around in town with nothing to do was the pinnacle of classic. at least there are things to do other than stand around looking awesome and /patting random ppl.

we've done the green>blue>purple dance at least 5 times now, there comes a point where you think back over what you've done in the game and realise that maybe getting gear wouldn't be so difficult now that we've done the cycle a half dozen times.

its nice to see we've reached a point in the progression curve that the game is now handing out legendaries like quest rewards, I think that is a good way to gauge the power of the average hero at this stage. we've moved way past the stage where we are all lvl 1 scrubs learning what is what.

i dunno if blizz hate palas i remember this

http://resak.deviantart.com/art/Worl...ching-28400956

[Crookids]

If you choose a Paladin then yes it's auto attack based. Also I'm not saying Paladins were well done in Vanilla either. And yes the combat is more engaging in Dark Souls, but the concept is still the same. Pull too many mobs and you're dead. Every move you make could be your last. You have to carefully plan how you want to approach enemies.

BTW Paladins were so poorly done in Vanilla that it even inspired people to make videos on the subject. Like Does Blizzard Really Hate Paladins?




And I'm telling you that Nostalgia plays a minor roll in peoples interests in Vanilla. Long Writer also has a video series on this as well, and I mostly agree with this statements.

Checking the vids out now.

[Akka]

It really is case and point that either people cannot separate the nostalgia from Vanilla or simply didn't play it during that time.

=>

Now I guess some drooling moron is going to tell me that liking different approaches to fight and not liking AoEing constantly is because "nostalgia" (and not because, well, I don't like mindlessly AoEing and like having variety), but well, "nostalgia" retards aren't retards for no reason.

Paint me surprised.

[Valech]

Nothing
/10chars

[Deleted]

I play retail and vanilla on the new Elysium server that opened 1½ week ago.
I enjoy both for different reasons. Classic wow feels more like an mmorpg than Legion.
Things take more time but the rewards are sweeter.
The world feels bigger.
When your bis item drops it will be in its best version every time.
Professions matter more.
No raidfinder and dungeonfinder.

I mean there is tons of aspects I enjoy more in classic wow but there is tons of things I love about retail aswell.