Draught of Souls for Ret?

[Emerald Archer]

You are full of shit. Stop spreading disinformation.

What's wrong about that? Let me guess, you take the 1.2ppm literally?

[Fargus]

What's wrong about that? Let me guess, you take the 1.2ppm literally?

The math disagrees with you.

So will most high-end rets, especially those who actually have the trinket.

[BlackZero]

In practice, in game, right now. On lucky attempts, yes you are.

Hunters with 2.6 attack speed could drop 1minute 20 off the cd in a 1 minute period on one of the much luckier runs.

Pallys attack a LOT faster with everything up, and in a lot of cases were able to chain wings with lucky attempts with some goofy sets.

With the nerf, that's obviously not nearly possible anymore, but you are still able to drop 40seconds off with luck, usually 25ish on average.

This is very very wrong.

[Redblade]

Let me guess, you take the 1.2ppm literally?

How would you take it otherwise?

Here's why it's bad if you don't understand. It shaves of 10 seconds per activation so after pull you can Crusade again at 1:50 - 3:40 - 5:30 - 7:20. Now if the fight is exactly 6 minutes you gain 30 seconds of Crusade, for every second past that to 6:30 you're losing that benefit again and the trinket is useless until you get to 7:20 and again the benefit starts ticking every second until you hit 8:00 where again it starts to revert the effect.

This at the cost of syncing with potions and other 2min CD:s.

Even if you're right and you get lucky and shave off 20 seconds you still don't know that before the fight and as the only situation the trinket is good is when you know the duration of the fight. But if you get lucky that duration needs to change or again you might end up getting no benefit from the trinket.

[Zyky]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to just tag you and tell you these are now out of date with what happened to convergence last night to Ret. Top trinket now by a landslide is again Faulty Countermeasure. Draught of Souls falls far low now.

[Emerald Archer]

How would you take it otherwise?

Here's why it's bad if you don't understand. It shaves of 10 seconds per activation so after pull you can Crusade again at 1:50 - 3:40 - 5:30 - 7:20. Now if the fight is exactly 6 minutes you gain 30 seconds of Crusade, for every second past that to 6:30 you're losing that benefit again and the trinket is useless until you get to 7:20 and again the benefit starts ticking every second until you hit 8:00 where again it starts to revert the effect.

This at the cost of syncing with potions and other 2min CD:s.

Even if you're right and you get lucky and shave off 20 seconds you still don't know that before the fight and as the only situation the trinket is good is when you know the duration of the fight. But if you get lucky that duration needs to change or again you might end up getting no benefit from the trinket.

As someone who HAS THE TRINKET, from the timewalking weekly quest reward, I can tell you, that the rppm, is not how it actually procs. In a few weeks when you get it and see it, you will also see. There's no convincing you guys, you heard "1.2ppm" and are sticking to it like glue. Maybe you should have tested it on ptr so you could have seen for yourselves.

[Redblade]

As someone who HAS THE TRINKET, from the timewalking weekly quest reward, I can tell you, that the rppm, is not how it actually procs. In a few weeks when you get it and see it, you will also see. There's no convincing you guys, you heard "1.2ppm" and are sticking to it like glue. Maybe you should have tested it on ptr so you could have seen for yourselves.

I'm impressed that you managed to spend enough time with it to get enough data to verify the proc rate...

[BlackZero]

As someone who HAS THE TRINKET, from the timewalking weekly quest reward, I can tell you, that the rppm, is not how it actually procs. In a few weeks when you get it and see it, you will also see. There's no convincing you guys, you heard "1.2ppm" and are sticking to it like glue. Maybe you should have tested it on ptr so you could have seen for yourselves.

I have the trinket myself and can confirm you're talking out of line. Just let it go bud before you dig a deeper hole.

[Emerald Archer]

I have the trinket myself and can confirm you're talking out of line. Just let it go bud before you dig a deeper hole.

If you're trying to claim it only procs once per minute, you're lying about having the trinket, pretty plain and simple.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm impressed that you managed to spend enough time with it to get enough data to verify the proc rate...

Don't have to test it much to see some of the higher resets on it. Of course you can't work out an average, but you can see the heights in which it can proc.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, no point in debating, you guys just want to believe you're the most hard done by spec in the game. So have at it, have your hunter or warlock moment, whichever. Best of luck having blizz put a decent trinket in for you guys. Or buffing it, or whatever. Genuinely though, best of luck.

[BlackZero]

If you're trying to claim it only procs once per minute, you're lying about having the trinket, pretty plain and simple.

- - - Updated - - -



Don't have to test it much to see some of the higher resets on it. Of course you can't work out an average, but you can see the heights in which it can proc.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, no point in debating, you guys just want to believe you're the most hard done by spec in the game. So have at it, have your hunter or warlock moment, whichever. Best of luck having blizz put a decent trinket in for you guys. Or buffing it, or whatever. Genuinely though, best of luck.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Blackwave/feed

Again, you are wrong. Let it go.

[Emerald Archer]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Blackwave/feed

Again, you are wrong. Let it go.

Faulty and Unstable. Damn you sure proved me wrong.

[BlackZero]

Faulty and Unstable. Damn you sure proved me wrong.

I wouldnt be using it, hence my feed being linked. Try again.

[Kazuchika]

Anyway, no point in debating, you guys just want to believe you're the most hard done by spec in the game. So have at it, have your hunter or warlock moment, whichever. Best of luck having blizz put a decent trinket in for you guys. Or buffing it, or whatever. Genuinely though, best of luck.

It's fine. I'm sure you can find plenty of other threads to white knight on this site.

[Emerald Archer]

I wouldnt be using it, hence my feed being linked. Try again.

Still not updated, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. And I'm amused, but I've still done my own testing, unsure how you only get 1 proc a minute, when 1ppm because of haste technically doesn't equate to 1ppm. That's just how WoW works. So apparantly the nerf has made the trinket defeat all wow-logics.

If that is the case, I am sorry for your loss.

- - - Updated - - -

It's fine. I'm sure you can find plenty of other threads to white knight on this site.

"Someone on the internet disagreed with me! They're a white knight" Ay lmao.

[Goldenboy1]

Hey Emerald, im with you on the whole CoF is neat and strong. But it does not compare with other trinkets available and you really need to take a second and look over the data. And even if CoF is still good, which it is, look at the other classes that benefit so much more. Even if it drops in raid it will be a bad decision to give it to the retribution in guild. This trinket just isnt practical for us after the nerf. give up the fight

[Malthanis]

Okay, let's calm down a bit and cut the snippy remarks please.

[Teleros]

How would you take it otherwise?

The "1.2 RPPM" thing is before haste is taken into account, and as I understand it is used to get a % figure for each hit you do.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Real_PPM

Have a read of that. The main thing is that it doesn't cap how many procs per minute you can have, so when you start stacking Crusade in particular, you can get lucky.

Mind you, the downside is that it completely buggers up any hope of predictable wings use, because yes, you could get lucky and shave 40secs off one day, but only 10secs the next.

[Redblade]

The "1.2 RPPM" thing is before haste is taken into account, and as I understand it is used to get a % figure for each hit you do.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Real_PPM

Have a read of that. The main thing is that it doesn't cap how many procs per minute you can have, so when you start stacking Crusade in particular, you can get lucky.

Mind you, the downside is that it completely buggers up any hope of predictable wings use, because yes, you could get lucky and shave 40secs off one day, but only 10secs the next.

Yeah, my point was more that the nerf makes it unreliable with minor benefits for a lot of hassle. In it's original state it was predicted to reliably shave 30 seconds off the cooldown. This would line up with the DoS trinket quite well which would make any variance unimportant. the only annoying thing would be the second pot that you would have to hold until the third or later activation.

If it reduces 10 or 20 seconds makes little difference atm as it causes more hassle than it's worth and fight length becomes too much of a decider if it's worth or not. Simply, the strength for ret in that trinket was how much it reduced the cooldown on Crusade, with that cut by 70% it's just not viable unless you have the perfect fight duration.

That's how I see it at least and until some one proves otherwise conclusively with sims that can be verified I'm sticking to my view.

[belashar]

I also got this trinket tonight via my time walking cache. Trying to decide if I should use it now. Currently I have:

Draught of Souls 880
Faulty Countermeasures 870
Eye of Command 860
Unstable Arcanocrystal 865

For reference my legendary items are the ring and waist.

[Meiffert]

Let me guess, you take the 1.2ppm literally?

How else could you take it?

If you're trying to claim it only procs once per minute, you're lying

Of course not.

1.2 rppm doesn't mean 1 proc per minute.

One common mistake is that people count "how many procs do you get in 2 minutes". You don't have 2 minutes to get the procs, you have less, because the cooldown is shortened by this very trinket.

Your average paladin has about 20 % haste, which means you get about 1.44 procs per minute outside of Crusade, Heroism and other haste increasing effects.
During Crusade, you can expect closer to 2 ppm.

On average, you get 1 proc during Crusade (~ 30 seconds (depending on relics) of ~ 2 ppm) and then you have ~ 75 seconds of 1.44 ppm, which should give you another 1.8 procs.
With heroism thrown into the mix somewhere as well as the Crusade ppm actually being closer to 2.1, you can expect to get around 3 procs total on average.

I'm sorry, but I don't see the trinket reducing your Crusade CD by 40 seconds (which is 8 procs) as you claimed in one of your posts. Can it possibly happen once when all stars align? Sure. But it's not something you should base your decision whether to use the trinket on.


One of the biggest factors determining the strength of the trinket is going to be the fight length. If there is a fight on mythic similar to the "6 minute hard enrage" Patchwerk (possibly Krosus?), the trinket is going to be amazing, because these even-minute length fights end exactly when your Crusade comes of cooldown and the trinket would give you another use.

On a fight with with unfortunate length (such as 6:40), the trinket is just a 2k strength stat stick.

On fights that are around 8 minutes long (give or take a minute or two), you have 50 % chance of getting an extra Crusade depending on the exact length.