Nighthold difficulty

[Accendor]

It is actually 880, yes. But that is exactly the problem here: For every heroic raiding guild it is no problem to have this item level at this point. Even without farming m+ up and down. So the question is: Why is this content tuned for 860-865?

In addition to that: Just from the feeling I had (no hard data) it would have been the same way with ~875.

I am not really complaining about normal difficulty (although the last few bosses felt too easy in general, but whatever, thats fine for me) but about heroic. Again, this content is supposed to last for another ~6 months and I simply do not see that happening for the majority of the players that do this kind of content.

[Deleted]

It is actually 880, yes. But that is exactly the problem here: For every heroic raiding guild it is no problem to have this item level at this point. Even without farming m+ up and down. So the question is: Why is this content tuned for 860-865?

Prolly cos that's what most HC only guilds have.

It looks to me like you are a mythic raider who doesn't do mythic for some reason. 880 ilvl is well beyond where most HC guilds are going to be unless they poured a fuckton of time into the M+ system.

[Nitros14]

Normal is family and friends difficulty. Don't expect anything of it.

[Osmeric]

I'm guessing they paid attention to the participation metrics for ToV.

[Dristereau]

Not noticed any major issues so far. First raid last night on Normal, got 6/10. Skorpyron, Chronomatic Anomaly, Trilliax (Cake), Aluriel and Tichondrius died in one pull with very basic knowledge/lack of knowledge. Krosus was simple enough aside from a Tank falling through the platform.

Had a couple of pulls on Etraeus so far, it seems simple enough, just understanding it seems a little bit more complex or painful anyways. Unsure if it was a bug or not but it seems like a couple of Icebursts were hitting DPS and Healers instead of tanks, and by hitting us, he seemed to be targeting DPS instead of Tanks.

Either way, I'm sure it will fall tonight and hopefully the rest. Guild is around 880 ilvl or so and the vast majority I know are 35+ traits. But tier, titanforged and gear can still be upgrades. I myself got a 920 Neck last night from normal.

[Akka]

It is actually 880, yes. But that is exactly the problem here: For every heroic raiding guild it is no problem to have this item level at this point. Even without farming m+ up and down. So the question is: Why is this content tuned for 860-865?

I'd even say it's no problem for normal guilds.
My guild hasn't run EN for some time now, and as raid is the only thing remotely fun left in the game, I tend to join normal runs made by guilds to chill out and get my AP. I'm speaking of guilds who tend to barely finish EN, sometimes are still on progression onto it.

And thing is, these guys are quite often out-ilvling me. They often reach 880+ ilvl. And others in the same raids are often about 850-860. There is a reason why I said NH tuning can't be good because of the colossal gear gap between players even at the same progression level...

[kamuimac]

880 ilvl is well beyond where most HC guilds are going to be unless they poured a fuckton of time into the M+ system.

880 itlv is caused by 3rd artifact relic and 2 egendaries nothing else - those 3 things make up for more then 10 itlevels and artificially inflate it.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm guessing they paid attention to the participation metrics for ToV.

definetly . ToV was just one huge fuck up because they listened to mythic community and failed horribly. yet another time they learn the same lesson.

[Spotnick]

I honestly think it's a bit too easy.. I've never one-shotted so many bosses before, but how hard is it to balance something when the sample of people running it goes from people with 20 traits to 54 traits and titanforged gear.

You don't want heroic to be too easy, because many heroic guilds don't go into mythic and they want content that will last more than 2 weeks.

[ExtremelyCrusty]

the amount of trash in Nighthold is already getting old and it's been one week. They need to remove some of the trash.

[infinitemeridian]

Why would heroic NH be tuned for anything above 865? That's the ilvl for EN. RNG/Titanforging should not be taken into account when tuning.

[shonist]

Why would you consider this to be a good thing? If people know/understand mechanics, and are executing them properly, and you are still wiping over and over again, then something is wrong with the numbers. That's not fun to most of the player base, even at the Mythic raiding level. It's one thing to wipe because derp #1 missed his portal again, or derp #2 stood in some shit and wasn't alive to pop that heal CD, but it's an entirely different thing when everyone does what they're supposed to do and you still lose.

"everyone does what they're supposed to do" .

lmao with this. You think avoiding/doing mechanics is the only thing you need to do??? The challenge in the game is doing a good rotation while doing that. preventing, calculate and etc. And no, not everyone are good players even if they do all mechanics well. Give 2 players with same spec/gear and they will perform different. 100% sure.

[Spotnick]

the amount of trash in Nighthold is already getting old and it's been one week. They need to remove some of the trash.

Sure, remove trash.. they drop so much loot, you actually want them to remove trash before mythic opens?

[Akka]

Why would heroic NH be tuned for anything above 865? That's the ilvl for EN. RNG/Titanforging should not be taken into account when tuning.

1) ToV
2) It would end up making the raid extremely undertuned. RNG is stupid, but it exists so it must be taken into account.

[ExtremelyCrusty]

Some of the trash.

[Lixion]

Star auger feels broken with really small raid sizes rest is fine tho.

[antelope591]

Did only normal so far, raid full of alts (only a few people in raid with over 35 traits) 1-2 shot everything except Guldan. Definitely tuned very forgivingly although you never expect much from normal. Obviously you can't tell what mythic will be tuned like, but I have a feeling this is a raid where all except the last 3 bosses will be dead on the first day to the top guilds. It will be interesting to see what happens to the raid scene with Blizz having such a difficult time balancing around traits/legendaries.

[Littlepwny]

All of the fights are mechanically and thematically fantastic.

My only complaint is that some fights seem absolutely unoptimised from small groups (~10) which is a big hurdle for my own guild.

[Kylaeia]

Been really liking the raid, though at least on normal the difficulty jump between 5/10 and 6/10 is huge (I PUGged normal to do hc with guild; we wiped to enrage on Tichondrius a bit - on the kill pull the average DPS of DPS-spec players was 445k and we still only had 9 seconds left on the enrage timer) - if it's that big a jump on heroic, I could see my guild getting stuck on 5/10hc until gear improves. But other than that I'm really enjoying it; boss mechanics are well telegraphed but interesting, Etraeus is a really cool fight both mechanically and aesthetically (though ice comet mechanic seems like it would be a problem for small raids)?

[Inuyaki]

(though ice comet mechanic seems like it would be a problem for small raids)?

Just make 2 camps, the tank runs into them to get soaked, 1-2-1. So your dps/heal don't even have to look out for that mechanic.
That fight in general is really really easy (on hc), we somehow had much more problems with Tich O.o
Then again I think our strat for Etraeus was just good and clicked, while we had to tinker at Tich

Most fights seemed to be tuned nicely so far (in hc, didn't do normal yet), maybe a little bit easy, especially first 3 bosses and in our case we killed Etraeus / Telarn way faster than I thought.

[Killface1]

I'm in a casual daytime "we do mythics when we can field enough players but no xrealm mythics this expansion fucked us" guild.

We've pugged 8-10 people for heroic NH and cleared 6/10, and then I went on and found a group doing star augur and killed her too. Difficulty seems good. I'm happy with 7/10h in pugs in week one - we have no tier, and the upgrades we'll get will be significant. Should be manageable to step into normal NH from pretty much any content, and heroic is a nice step up from that. I'm not sure how mythic will be, but overall I'm pretty impressed with the tuning. Yeah there are probably guilds that have all their players maxed out in gear and AP, and will shit on the content, but I'd bet most groups are in a similar boat as my guild/pug group, of avg artifact at like 38.