Fury as AfD politician urges Germany to 'stop remembering Nazi crimes'

[Deleted]

The Nazi movement isn't exactly dead and in Germany so perhaps remembering is very very important

[Mehrunes]

hate speech is free speech, and germany doesn't allow it.

true freedom of speech allows it.

US doesn't have hegemony over the concept of freedom of speech. It's not like free speech is truly free in US either. It has plenty of limits. Arguing that US limits are fine and dandy but German ones are not is special pleading.

it's not at all. we shouldn't police people's thoughts, it's wrong.

we should denounce them, we should dislike them. but we should never silence them.

Speech isn't "thoughts". Speech is a conscious action.

[purebalance]

I suppose we could make more efforts to my sympathetic to these people or so........nope couldn't do it.

You don't dwell on things like the Holocaust because you're supposed to feel guilty, you're supposed to dwell on them because there is no difference between humanity today and humanity then. The only thing that protects us from repeating these horrors is knowing them intimately.

Why we're sympathetic to racists like BLM in the US...

[alexw]

I have to say this thread is hilarious, all the alt-reich folks coming out and saying Germany needs to forget about the past and not remember its past collective actions. Then they basically infer that because of this non-forgetting of Nazism, Germany is composed of a load of "cucks" who let themselves be walked over.

But every time you call out these self same people as Neo-nazi's or similar, they exclaim "No no that's not us, we are just anti-pc!" Yet they absolutely loathe to the very fiber of their being the fact that people still remember Nazism, and still decry those who follow its precepts.

If you alt-reichers don't follow Nazi precepts or similar (which you do), then why are you all so up in arms about Germany's remembrance of the past?

[Mehrunes]

Most are aware that the US barely has a proper left-wing, not even a big left wing party.
Any decent left wing European party will not find as much common ground with the Democrats(which is what Americans see as left wing) as you think

Technically speaking, the people Xekus is complaining about aren't representative of Democrats as a whole, especially on party level. So Democrats being a right wing party by non-fucked up standards is inconsequential to them. And regressive left, i.e. who he complained about, is very much left in both US and elsewhere. And it's not like he said all of left wing is like what he complained about. Xekus is left-wing himself and chances are he's not a part of the group that he's complaining about. Though him painting "sins of your fathers" mentality as just left wing behavior (even when limited to regressive left) is not accurate. I've seen an influx of "hur hur, Democrats were against abolishing slavery" which not only is "sins of your fathers" nonsense, but is a combo deal with ignorance of the parties' ideological shift in 20th century.

[AeneasBK]

Technically speaking...

Aren't we months, years even, past trying to treat individuals or groups as themselves? If you're not on the right you're a lefty. If you're not on the left your a nazi. That's just how it is now; there is no center ground for politics anymore.

[Mehrunes]

Oh, right, forgot to address the OP.

Instead of bringing up the new generation with the great philanthropists, the world famous, groundbreaking philosophers, the musicians, the ingenious explorers and inventors, of which we have many… maybe more than any other people in the world… and instead of exposing our students in schools to this history, the history - German history - is made into something rotten and ridiculous.

This is the best part. As if the philosophers or philanthropists somehow negated what the country itself was. And as if German education system didn't cover them as well. This bit is made especially hilarious by his overall focus of shame of the Third Reich and the Holocaust. As if that was the only rotten part of Geraman history and the problem was the focus on the disproportional time period that's rotten. Just no. Unless you delve directly into Holy Roman Empire, which was a loose collective of various counties, duchies and kingdoms, not all of which were even German, German history prior to Third Reich is just as rotten. German Empire and Kingdom of Prussia (wait, delving into HRE even with the rotten stuff) were oppressive abominations guilty of ethnic cleansing and are some of the worst things to ever blight Europe. It's not like the idea that non-Germans were inferior to Germans suddenly popped up when Hitler rose to power. The aforementioned two earlier steps of German statehood subscribed to it with both hands and forcibly Germanized the "inferior" part of the population.

[Jastall]

But are modern germans constantly berated and blamed? If so, what form does it take? How often does it happen? How long does a session last?

They have 5 minutes of mandatory self-hate every hour. Those who fail to abide by this decree have a swatzika carved into their foreheads and are tossed into gulags.

At least, that's what happens if you listen to some people who I suspect have never been to Germany and act as if the people there were reminded of the Nazis 24/7.

[Deleted]

Actually, Höcke really is a neo nazi. He just showed up with that speech. He wants to forget about history and the lessons we should learn from it.

We need to remember history, and we need to remind the catastrophes that came from nationalism and communism.

[Wells]

Why we're sympathetic to racists like BLM in the US...

When the world doesn't make sense to you maybe consider your premises.

[Strangebrew]

In the same it has been for the last 50 years? No, wait, everyone became more tolerant and accepting.
70 years ago we would just execute the far right. Now we let themselves get banned on online fora.

Oh sorry, let me just go and laugh my fucking ass off, this is coming from the same guy who advocated for genocide.

[Tatsujin]

Japanese are 100% the opposite, they don't cop to nothing, they even leave the stuff they did in WWII out of the history books in schools. Maybe there could be more of a balance.

Where did you get your sources? Give me scholarly sources please, no journalist (non-peer reviewed) stuff.

[Deleted]

I suppose we could make more efforts to my sympathetic to these people or so........nope couldn't do it.

Hypocrit. Basically you're saying "we should value everyone's opinion.... except 'them'". That's not how freedom works.

[Deleted]

They have 5 minutes of mandatory self-hate every hour. Those who fail to abide by this decree have a swatzika carved into their foreheads and are tossed into gulags.

At least, that's what happens if you listen to some people who I suspect have never been to Germany and act as if the people there were reminded of the Nazis 24/7.

My wife is German. I spend a few months a year in Germany.

They're constantly reminded of it. Merkel can't go a season without bring it up at least once in a major speech. My wife's chemistry curriculum had a lesson on the dangers of chemical warfare, focusing on the Nazis. And her history lessons (fair enough). And her Literature. And the religion, and PE...

Britain spent a few hundred years raping the planet of resources and people. Where's the monument in London?

[Strangebrew]

Technically speaking, the people Xekus is complaining about aren't representative of Democrats as a whole, especially on party level. So Democrats being a right wing party by non-fucked up standards is inconsequential to them. And regressive left, i.e. who he complained about, is very much left in both US and elsewhere. And it's not like he said all of left wing is like what he complained about. Xekus is left-wing himself and chances are he's not a part of the group that he's complaining about. Though him painting "sins of your fathers" mentality as just left wing behavior (even when limited to regressive left) is not accurate. I've seen an influx of "hur hur, Democrats were against abolishing slavery" which not only is "sins of your fathers" nonsense, but is a combo deal with ignorance of the parties' ideological shift in 20th century.

Nailed it, though i will say that i don't believe the right doesn't pull the same bullshit, but left is supposed to be the better side.
Not stooping down to the same tactics, except we have seen a huge rise in exactly that from the modern-left/neo-liberals/feminists/SJW's and what else.

This shit is what i expect to come from the right, not from the left, yet it's coming from the left.
Destroying freedom of expression, censorship, violation of privacy rights, labels, judging people purely because of their skin color and gender?
You'd think it would be the right, but nope it's the left that is pulling this bullshit, and have done so for the last few years.
This isn't some american only thing either, hell you could say this shit originated in the UK and colleges there.
We see the same crap in Norway, look up Hadia Tajik and the shit laws she have pushed into action.

In this very thread we have people already saying people today should feel guilty for what happened in WW2, even though they had absolutely nothing to do with it, it's pure insanity.
Let them keep believing i'm an american right-wing neo-nazi though, it makes it all so much more fun for me.

[Zarc]

I don't know a lot about Germany except for what little I get from US media. But this guy might have a point, don't dwell a 100% on all your countries wrong doings since 1800, maybe focus 10-20% on the wrong doings and 90-100% on the great things you've accomplished since then?

Yeah, obviously you don't, if you think they "dwell 100% on your country's wrongdoings". What the Germans have done is worthy of massive admiration. They are, well most of them are, crystal clear about the terrible crimes committed by many of their forebears. But they don't let that define who they are. Because of that they are a great country today, a bastion of freedom, democracy and individualism. To not repeat the mistakes of the past you must know and understand history. That is what the Germans have done, they have not tried to re-write history or make excuses for what some of their parents or grand-parents did, like Turkey for example who refuse to recognize the Armenian genocide committed by the Ottoman Empire - as if recognizing it as the legal successor of the Ottoman Empire would somehow place guilt on Turkish people today. That is the most stupid mindset and is the thinking of a nationalist, and all it does is create resentment between groups of people and also makes you not learn from mistakes of the past made by other people who lived in your country before you did. And now you have this authoritarian Erdogan moving their country further and further from a free society. Focusing 10-20% on the wrong doings of the past would probobly be increasing the amount they focus on it. How can you possibly think they are focusing more than 10-20% on it. Of course they are focused on the present, the economy, jobs, healthcare, education, humanitarianism, protecting freedom and democracy from political forces that are threatening them. But they are probobly uniquely able to identify authoritarianism like no other country today, which may explain why the AfD has yet to make their entrance to the german federal legislature. Germany looks very strong right now, when other countries are going crazy.

[Deleted]

Yeah, obviously you don't, if you think they "dwell 100% on your country's wrongdoings". What the Germans have done is worthy of massive admiration. They are, well most of them are, crystal clear about the terrible crimes committed by many of their forebears. But they don't let that define who they are. Because of that they are a great country today, a bastion of freedom, democracy and individualism. To not repeat the mistakes of the past you must know and understand history. That is what the Germans have done, they have not tried to re-write history or make excuses for what some of their parents or grand-parents did, like Turkey for example who refuse to recognize the Armenian genocide committed by the Ottoman Empire - as if recognizing it as the legal successor of the Ottoman Empire would somehow place guilt on Turkish people today. That is the most stupid mindset and is the thinking of a nationalist, and all it does is create resentment between groups of people and also makes you not learn from mistakes of the past made by other people who lived in your country before you did. And now you have this authoritarian Erdogan moving their country further and further from a free society. Focusing 10-20% on the wrong doings of the past would probobly be increasing the amount they focus on it. How can you possibly think they are focusing more than 10-20% on it. Of course they are focused on the present, the economy, jobs, healthcare, education, humanitarianism, protecting freedom and democracy from political forces that are threatening them. But they are probobly uniquely able to identify authoritarianism like no other country today, which may explain why the AfD has yet to make their entrance to the german federal legislature. Germany looks very strong right now, when other countries are going crazy.

Are you mental?

I mean, have you spent time with Germans? Real time? Because I don't know any (and I know a lot) that aren't constantly aware and self conscious of the Holocaust.

Living in the past kills a people. Christ, it's why Germany spends so much money bailing everyone out all the time.

[Kryos]

"Get over it!"

[Wells]

Hypocrit. Basically you're saying "we should value everyone's opinion.... except 'them'". That's not how freedom works.

When "them" is nazis and nazi sympathizers, yes.

[Deleted]

Yeah I bet its a "stupid coping policy" when you're a nazi fuck.

And at the end of the day he's still a better person than you are.