Fury as AfD politician urges Germany to 'stop remembering Nazi crimes'

[Heltoray]

And at the end of he day he's still a better person than you are.

or is he...

[Wells]

And at the end of he day he's still a better person than you are.

"You're worse than a Nazi" is a bold claim.

[Sky High]

Hypocrit. Basically you're saying "we should value everyone's opinion.... except 'them'". That's not how freedom works.

not in the slightest. they can still have their opinions as retarded as they are. we are not the least bit obligated to give those opinions any value. see the difference?

[Mayhem]

Britain spent a few hundred years raping the planet of resources and people. Where's the monument in London?

Next time try to be as efficient as the germans, you won´t get a monument for stuff that took you guys ages!

[jackofwind]

Or how about you don't and you wallow in baseless guilt, becoming an easily manipulable puppet. What the hell do you think makes you or the German people so special that lets you own the guilt card above anyone else? Get over yourself, history is replete with massacres and genocidal maniacs. Your particular stint with these was over before you were even born, an assertion that I can confidently make based upon how easily you label people you don't agree with, giving me insight into your mental age.

Do you honestly think the German people, of all people given their atrocities' recentness, would slide back into an oppressive xenophobic regime? And if your answer is no because of all the daily whipping you are submitted and submit yourselves to, I would be rolling on the floor in laughter. Fact of the matter is, yes the answer would be no, but for entirely different reasons.

As for me not commenting based on the perceptions of random people on the internet and their chosen descriptors, I have no words to describe how asinine that sounds.

Fact of the matter is the rest of the world when talking about nazis, aside from the obvious remembrance of history, use them in joking situations. We kill them in video games, we laugh at them and apply the term to stuff like "grammar" nazi to denote extreme strictness over said topic. We don't however go "you shouldn't talk about them!" like it happens in casual conversations with Germans [one could even say it's haram!(irony) just to denote how similar this leftist ideology is to other types of extremism]. Why? Because laughing at misfortune is one of our coping mechanisms. It helps us get over shit. You should pick up the English version (not the neutered German version) of the latest Wolfenstein and spray some nazi blood over swastikas.

The only truth here is that in most parts of Europe and the Western world, and ESPECIALLY in Germany such a return to regressive authoritarian regimes would never happen. Yes history should be taught in schools. Yes the regime was horrible. No, it's not relevant now and will most likely never will be.

Do you think that a game set during the Crusades told from the point of view of the Ottomans that painted the Christian crusaders as monsters (which they, for the most part, were - as far as men can be monsters in wartime that is) would go over well with the global Christian community? What about a game where a wholly sympathetic storyline was told for ISIS, where America was painted as a global terrorist nation - would that go over well in the US?

Germans take nazism seriously and don't find it funny because they were the antagonists. They committed the genocide. Yes, modern day Germans might have nothing to do with the Holocaust, but modern-day Germany does. It's a joke for everyone else because it's not about us.

[Halicia]

Germans take nazism seriously and don't find it funny because they were the antagonists. They committed the genocide. Yes, modern day Germans might have nothing to do with the Holocaust, but modern-day Germany does. It's a joke for everyone else because it's not about us.

They also take it seriously because in many references to Nazis are just illegal in Germany.

As odd as it is though, I kinda agree that Germany's history gets overshadowed by a couple decades. Kinda like how American history gets wrapped in the revolutionary war & civil war, and not much else about the other 90% of the time its been a nation.

If other nations paid as much attention to the history and consequences of WW2, we'd be in a much better position nowadays for the future of humanity, instead of reliving it.

[Renyo]

Are you mental?

I mean, have you spent time with Germans? Real time? Because I don't know any (and I know a lot) that aren't constantly aware and self conscious of the Holocaust.

Living in the past kills a people. Christ, it's why Germany spends so much money bailing everyone out all the time.

I am German. Now you know one. Am I aware that it happened? Yes. All the time? No. It does not define me, but it partly defines Germany as a state. Do I feel guilt? No. Do I have a responsibility to not forget? Yes. But everyone that knows of it has that responsibility, not just Germans.

[Jastall]

My wife is German. I spend a few months a year in Germany.

They're constantly reminded of it. Merkel can't go a season without bring it up at least once in a major speech. My wife's chemistry curriculum had a lesson on the dangers of chemical warfare, focusing on the Nazis. And her history lessons (fair enough). And her Literature. And the religion, and PE...

Britain spent a few hundred years raping the planet of resources and people. Where's the monument in London?

Yes, and? That's not that frequent IMO. I'm Canadian, and do you know how many times our treatment of the Natives are brought up? Somewhat frequently, especially these days. I don't view it as an attack or anything, it's a fact that horrible things were done to these people and that they still live in a level of squalor that is intolerable in a first world country.

Albeit I do believe a chemical warfare course with a focus on the Nazis is very weird since Hitler explicitely forbid such practices, so that was among the war crimes that the nazis actually didn't commit with any sort of regularity. They'd be best served looking at the Japanese, or some the British Army's secret plans.

[jackofwind]

Yes, and? That's not that frequent IMO. I'm Canadian, and do you know how many times our treatment of the Natives are brought up?

Truth. It's a news piece every single day on CBC.

There are daily talk shows on our national radio as well whose sole purpose is to talk about modern First Nations culture, art and affairs (ex: Unreserved), and those predominantly focus on the topics of treaty breaking, cultural genocide, and residential schools - because those are the things that modern FN artists are speaking about. They don't make me feel guilty because I had nothing to do with those actions, but that doesn't mean the people who still feel their effects shouldn't still be talking about them.

[alemaite]

Its important to remember who Bjorn Hocke is and who the AfD are before commenting.

Yes, please stop talking about things you do not understand, just makes you look like a moron. Plenty of Neo Nazis support the AfD, so there is a reason why politicians say what they say...

[Alakallanar]

Yes, please stop talking about things you do not understand, just makes you look like a moron. Plenty of Neo Nazis support the AfD, so there is a reason why politicians say what they say...

To put that into perspective: the next speaker was a bit less subtle, praising the NPD (explicit nazi-party that recently just barely avoided being banned), and saying things like (roughly translated) "the creation of mixed races in europe is hard to endure" among other things...

[Slant]

I agree with both view points as history shouldn't be forgotten but you can't move forward due to fear. Germany is heading into a state of apathy which will stunt any future growth.

And this is your opinion as a world renowned expert on Germany?

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Aren't we months, years even, past trying to treat individuals or groups as themselves? If you're not on the right you're a lefty. If you're not on the left your a nazi. That's just how it is now; there is no center ground for politics anymore.

Yes, there is. That's where Merkel has set up camp. But since it's in vogue to hate on Merkel for a couple of years now, it's pretty much a big circle of political no man's land where nobody dares enter for fear of being both a nazi and a left-wing cuck. At the same time. Happens to me frequently on this board. It's ridiculous how I can 180° political allegiance depending on which thread I'm posting in. Sometimes at the same time.

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My wife is German. I spend a few months a year in Germany.

They're constantly reminded of it. Merkel can't go a season without bring it up at least once in a major speech. My wife's chemistry curriculum had a lesson on the dangers of chemical warfare, focusing on the Nazis. And her history lessons (fair enough). And her Literature. And the religion, and PE...

Britain spent a few hundred years raping the planet of resources and people. Where's the monument in London?

So, you're surprised that a country deals with its history? Or is it just that we actually get taught history? We get taught about the Vietnam war as well. And the Roman Empire. Do you think we feel guilty for the Americans or the Italians?

[May90]

I'm not sure what's more sickening: this guy having the insolence to preach this nonsense in public, or idiots on the Internet agreeing with him. I'll go with this guy: idiots on the Internet isn't exactly novelty, but speaking of things like this in public in one of the major German cities is quite a dare!

[Deleted]

Those that agree with Höcke on the german internet mainly are social bots or Trolls. You will not find any serious politician that follows Höckes fascism.

[Slant]

Yeah, obviously you don't, if you think they "dwell 100% on your country's wrongdoings". What the Germans have done is worthy of massive admiration. They are, well most of them are, crystal clear about the terrible crimes committed by many of their forebears. But they don't let that define who they are. Because of that they are a great country today, a bastion of freedom, democracy and individualism. To not repeat the mistakes of the past you must know and understand history. That is what the Germans have done, they have not tried to re-write history or make excuses for what some of their parents or grand-parents did, like Turkey for example who refuse to recognize the Armenian genocide committed by the Ottoman Empire - as if recognizing it as the legal successor of the Ottoman Empire would somehow place guilt on Turkish people today. That is the most stupid mindset and is the thinking of a nationalist, and all it does is create resentment between groups of people and also makes you not learn from mistakes of the past made by other people who lived in your country before you did. And now you have this authoritarian Erdogan moving their country further and further from a free society. Focusing 10-20% on the wrong doings of the past would probobly be increasing the amount they focus on it. How can you possibly think they are focusing more than 10-20% on it. Of course they are focused on the present, the economy, jobs, healthcare, education, humanitarianism, protecting freedom and democracy from political forces that are threatening them. But they are probobly uniquely able to identify authoritarianism like no other country today, which may explain why the AfD has yet to make their entrance to the german federal legislature. Germany looks very strong right now, when other countries are going crazy.

To be honest, it'd be much easier to not think about our history if we didn't have to deal with idiots telling us to "just ignore it" all the time. It's all those neonazis emerging these days that force people like me to once more confront our history and remind people that it'd be a grave mistake to just pretend it never happened. Especially since those neonazis certainly didn't forget. And they do have a roadmap to ruining the country. They know exactly how to do it and if you don't pay attention, suddenly you have them in a position to cause some real damage. So far they're only in some low regional congregations, but one of them entered a state parliament already... only one or two, not sure but it's enough to warn people that these idiots still seek only one thing. National dominance and purging Germany of non-Germans. Make no mistake, guys... they are not here to protect Germany or be nice about it.

[Rennadrel]

I suppose we could make more efforts to my sympathetic to these people or so........nope couldn't do it.

You don't dwell on things like the Holocaust because you're supposed to feel guilty, you're supposed to dwell on them because there is no difference between humanity today and humanity then. The only thing that protects us from repeating these horrors is knowing them intimately.

And the hope that we learned from those mistakes, and for the most part, we have learned. One can't ignore the past, because the past is what shows us the mistakes we made, the future is the unknown.

[Skalm]

What if this history is still having a massive negative impact on you today? Like how Native American reservations have become slums because the government didn't give them the resources they needed.

There really aren't that many people who have unjust grievances against the way their families were treated and they subsequently today are treated.

I mean you should feel something if the fact that the quality of life you have today is built upon innocent lives.

Resources? You mean like how they make billions of dollars a year on their Casinos and do not have to pay any Federal Tax on that, nor any state income tax? Yeah, they have it so hard...Maybe they should put that money into their reservations instead of their pockets...

[Mayhem]

And this is your opinion as a world renowned expert on Germany?

Damn, germany is doomed, shall we send you one of ours again to get things going?

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I'm not sure what's more sickening: this guy having the insolence to preach this nonsense in public, or idiots on the Internet agreeing with him. I'll go with this guy: idiots on the Internet isn't exactly novelty, but speaking of things like this in public in one of the major German cities is quite a dare!

In a country that has according to this board, no freedom of speech!

[Mehrunes]

Your liberals are the equivalent of our VVD, which is one of our most right-winged parties.
Hardly delusional.

Norway, the global capital of right wing ideology.

[Slant]

Damn, germany is doomed, shall we send you one of ours again to get things going?

I want to give you a response, but apparently I'm too apathetic to give a fuck... or so I'm told. :P